TheBigBlueBoat

Now that I've wrapped up my Cobra swap build, one of the next things on my agenda is a frame off restoration of my Cutlass. I know the most critical part to a build is the planning, otherwise you end up with a four year mess with no real direction. That I've seen with my friends and their builds.

Anyway, I'm hoping some of the veterans can give me some pointers on what I'll need and what the best route is. Tools-wise I'm pretty well equipped. I'd certainly like a better paintgun and welder, but what I've got will get the job done.

Where I'm limited somewhat is space. Right now I'm renting a house and I've got a single bay garage. Ideally I'd like a lot more space, and heat. My lease is up in May so upgrading is a definite option. If doing this in a single bay is an absolute no-go, I can hold off until I get out of here. By which I mean go ahead with compound boosting the stang in the meantime.

The other concern is order. Originally I was just going to do some paint/body work, so much of that is disassembled already. Now I have more money, space, and tools. The question now becomes, where to start? Do I want to get a nice rolling chassis put together first, or do I tend to the body? Any advice as to this would be helpful. I know on my Mustang overhaul the order was fix everything that was broken, fuel system, drivetrain, exterior, interior, then suspension, but that was also a unibody car.

Any help from the pros/more experienced would be greatly appreciated.

Seff

If you're inventive, you make a hoist so you can pull the body of the car straight up, allowing you to work on the chassis with the body seven feet over your head. That gives you room to work on the bottom of the body too - just remember to move mats, carpets and seats before cutting or welding anything. :P I'm thinking 4"x4" timber and pulleys to raise the body off the frame with crossbeams being connected to the standing 4"x4". Remember diagonal stiffening and so forth, otherwise it might come back down again...

I had a huge workshop and a forklift, that means I did it with things spread across the floor. You don't have that luxury.

How bad is the car?

charlierogers

great questions! to start with, if you have a one bay garage you might as well hold off on a full frame off restoration until you get more room. it can be done, but doing a frame off resto with a 2 1/2 car garage is tight once you separate body from frame then you have hood,fenders, doors, trunklid, ect,ect, plus you need work area. i am helping a friend with a cheap frame off in a 2 1/2 garage and it is a pain in the ****!!!! compared to my frame off in a real shop. unless you have alot of disposable income i would stay with a frame on resto. you can still get a very nice looking undercarriage going this route. take small bites,,, front suspension + brakes, rear suspension + brakes, , along the way wire wheel floor pan and clean as best you can then blow some paint on. this way there is alot less chance you will get overwhelmed with a complete car in pieces. as far as i am concerned there is no reason to do a frame off unless you are going full boat {new everthing} and it is unwise unless you have car that will return some of your HARD earned money. frame offs are EXPENSIVE even if you do 99% off the work yourself. there are great guys on this site that have done frame offs and i am sure they will chime in. not trying to be harsh,,, just helpful. i have helped on a couple cheap frame offs in friends garages + just nearing the end of a high end frame off resto on my 70 442 pacecar. wishing you the best of luck on any way you go on your project and if i can help with info in the future let me know.
charlie,,,

charlierogers

forgot to add,,,,, look up posts by a member here called "lady72nrob71" i dont know him but have seen alot of his threads with repair and on frame restoration work. i can tell you they are VERY informative with step by step procedures and pictures. sometimes part numbers and what pitfalls you might run into!
charlie,,,

76 Regency

Hi. I would wait until you have more room for sure. Keep in mind that if you start now, you'll have a body and frame to move after May which is MUCH harder than moving a rolling chassis. Not to mention the space you have isn't really sufficient. Although my car is quite a bit bigger, I couldn't imagine doing a frame off in a single bay.

When you are ready, make sure you have all your related parts ready first like body mounts, bolts, fuel/brake lines,etc.

Good luck!
John

TheBigBlueBoat

The car wasn't too bad. It was a running/driving car and pretty solid. Unfortunately she had some nasty rust on the bottom of the fenders, and the bottom of the quarters was trashed.

Here's some pictures of how it's sitting, more or less. I actually started to tear it down to do the bodywork on a budget, but had to move out of state in the middle of it. Unfortunately I haven't been able to work on it in two years, but now I have more than enough cash to make it happen.

100_0751.jpg
100_0753.jpg
100_0752.jpg

Thanks for the tips.

Just to clarify things-
I'm not going for the crazy over the top replace-every-nut-and-bolt-with-GM-NOS show quality. My main concern is I want to kill every speck of rust, and replace every wear and tear component. To achieve this I think frame off is required.

I certainly wish I had a full shop. But at the same time I'm no stranger to confined spaces. I've just wrapped up completely gutting and rebuilding a Mustang, most of which was done in a storage space.

Thanks. The more I can follow in someone's footsteps the better.

Well right now the car is half apart in storage in another state. I won't be moving it down here and getting down to business until I have a solid gameplan, one way or another.

A parts list is a definite thing to have, especially since I bet the lead time for most of these parts is pretty long.

charlierogers

having the all the parts plus the misc, small stuff ahead of time will keep your progress/project flowing alot smoother.when you start working post a new thread in "the major builds projects" section with pics as we all love those!!! a am sure you will get some guys keeping an eye on it. and you will get as much info you need here. btw if you can afford to get most of the parts you need up front make big orders and you can usually get some kind of discount. best of luck charlie,,,

Carshinebob

Hi. Some of the "see our work" pictures on my website might be helpful. Go to www.restorationsbycarshine.com Use internet explorer as your browser to open the pictures as this website was made with software that is now obsolete and I can't update it. Our new website isn't completed yet however it has our new address and a link to our old website. The new site is www.carshinerestorations.com Good luck. ~BOB

allyolds68

The most helpful thing I can add is to block the body up high enough to roll the frame out from under. I was in a two car under and my wife's car was on the other side. I used to roll the frame into the driveway whenever I worked on the car. I jacked the car up with a single floor jack alternating back and forth until it was high enough. You can click on the link in my sig to see all the pictures

johns59super88

I also have a one car garage and started doing a frame on restoration. While the car was together I got it running well and checked out compression, etc and determined the engine and tranny functioned well. I then took the car apart putting everything possible in my basement including all body parts, linkage, etc and pulled the motor and transmission. Now I had a body on a rolling chassis with a bunch of parts in my basement, etc and the motor on a stand. I have a shop in my basement for smaller stuff and woodworking. My garage has all the mechanics tools I need there.

I'm not a body guy so I found a shop to do the body work and paint and towed the car there along with all the body pieces. I then spent my time rebuilding the starter, generator, ps pump and gearbox, etc and replacing seals, etc. finally I painted the motor and trans and wrapped them until I could reinstall.

While all that was going on the body guy found more rot and poorly done body work than I ever expected. Par for the course as I know know. We than decided to make it a frame off resto and pulled the body and I brought the frame home. They put the body on a dolly and continued their work. I used this time to replace rear axle and diff seals, replace brake and fuel lines and rebuild all the brakes. I cleaned and POR 15'd the chassis and put the motor and tranny back on.

I towed the frame and drivetrain back and married the body to the frame. At this point all the body repair was done and the body was in epoxy primer. We also sprayed the bottom of the body with bed liner. We remarried the body and frame and started trial fitting the body parts and doing fine tuning of fitment. As of this writing, the body is apart and the door jambs and firewall and fender edges by the hood are all painted. The final install of all the body parts is this week, then final two tone paint. I hope to have it back in my tiny garage in about two weeks or so.

johns59super88

This is one of the pics of where we are now. For some reason, the classic olds site will not let me post more than one pic using the manage attachment function. Probably because I'm using an iPad.

L69

Hey best of luck to you. I must say that there is nothing quite like a frame off restoration especially when you do the work yourself or at least most of it. It is truly a time when you see who your true friends are. LOL.

Dave Siltman

My advice---and if I am guilty of anything it is being BRUTALLY HONEST---start with the BEST car you can find. You will spend more money and time chasing rust than what a rust-free body would cost. A one bay garage really will be challenging and when you disassemble, tag, and bag EVERYTHING. Get manuals and read them BEFORE and DURING assembly. Oldsmobiles are a little trickier than a '69 Camaro or '70 Chevelle. If you think you need help moving or lifting something---wait and get help---don't hurt yourself. And... get three or four pairs of goggles and wear them. Believe me, we've all been there, and this stuff I saying sounds trivial, but I've had to have metal removed from my eye--I've hurt my back 'cause I was "strong enough" and just like L69 (Sal) says;;;you'll find out who your true friends are.

Olds64

That will be quite a task. I wish I could do a frame off restoration someday. Currently, I only have a two car garage. Maybe I need to add a shop someday. Good luck with your plan.

oldcutlass

Not saying it can't be done. Is there room outside to move the body out of the way? Organization of space will be very important. Bag and tag assy's cause we all suffer from CRS "Can't Remember SH.."

TheBigBlueBoat

That is an excellent picture of getting work done in minimal space.

Yeah, with all the things that go wrong and all the work I need to get done the only ones that have stuck around and helped out are Jack and Miller.

Well, I already screwed that one up, bad.

The reason this car is my candidate is because this was my first car I bought cash at the ripe age of 16. Come hell or high water it's getting restored. Plus I've got quite a bit of experience with basket cases now.


Thanks to all for the tips.

Unfortunately my timeline has gotten pushed back a bit since the Mustang popped a head gasket on the dyno a couple weeks ago, so it's taking up the garage for the time being. I also got sucked into the "might as well" trap with it, ending up cleaning and painting everything, replacing some items, better gaskets, studs, ported heads...

...at least it's all good practice for the Olds right?

Bernhard

This is very well said


Start with the best car shell you can find X 1000 rust free or close to rust free = dollars saved and a more original car that has a higher resale value.
I have to say it again
This will save you time and money
Only build a car and body style that you truly love that way after you add up all the money and time you spent you will not be mad at yourself that you have double the amount of money in your car than what you can sell it for.
Don't waste time by sandblasting parts your self find a quality media blaster that knows how to strip sheet metal with out damaging / warping!
Safety first you only get one set of lungs, eye's, hearing, fingers!
You can do a frame off in a single garage I have done two in such a small space when I was young it can be done but you will loose a lot of time moving parts around for extra room.
Use the right tool for the job
Buy a shop manual/GM one that the techs used in the day.
Take lots of pictures bag and tag every thing.
Good luck

Bee-Oh-Pee

Boat,
Buy . I think it will be the best $50 of the resto you will spend. I bought the first edition and it really gave me a perspective on the project I was undertaking. It helps with some of the exact questions you asked, such as the timing and sequence issues. It was really fun to read, serves as a priceless reference, and gives you that perspective I gained. Good luck!

Sampson

I am in the middle of a frame off now. Unbelievable how much room a car that is in parts takes up. At one point I had both of my garage bays taken up with car not to mention 1/2 my workshop with parts. A digital camera is your best friend. Take pics of everything before you take it apart and then tag and bag. If I were you I would decide it up into segments. Do the bodywork while the car is on the frame. Do the mechanicals with the body on the frame. Do as much work as you can with the body on the frame. Then when it comes time to separate the body from the frame most of the work will have been done and it will be a shorter process. It's kind of like eating an Elephant. One bite at a time!