jerrybetty5

I have a 1969 Olds 442 with a 455 W34 out of a 1970 Toronado. I have been told that I should add an octane additive at each fillup. Premium at most pumps is 91 octane. Thoughts?

GEARMAN69

One of these cans to ever tank fill up of 91 should cover it . It really works

oldcutlass

We've also discussed this product as it contains lead:
http://www.wildbillscorvette.com/OctaneSupreme01a.htm









Mixing chart for Torco Accelerator mentioned above by gearman:

D. Yaros

I guess it depends on why you want to use an additive? I use Octane Supreme in my 1962 394 c.i. engine. Not for speed/power, but for top end lubrication. In terms of power my engine runs just fine on commercially available fuel.

joe_padavano

There's a lot of money to be made by companies selling octane boosters and lead additives. Does the car ping without using an additive? If not, why waste the money?

As for valve lubrication, this is not as big a deal as it has been made out to be. First, how much do you really drive that car now? Is it a weekend only car? The reality is that using unleaded probably means that you'll only go 80,000 miles before needing a valve job instead of 100,000 miles.

D. Yaros

I agree a lot with what you say re: fuel additives.

At the same time, on the subject of valve lubrication, your statement does say the Octane Supreme TEL additive not only a) does not hurt, b) it does help.

A 20% -25% increase in valve life is not a bad thing.

As my 1962 Oldsmobile has all of 37K on the odometer and I have acquired 3 score plus 10 years of age, the chances of my putting 80K miles on the car, let alone 100K, in my lifetime is all but nil!

joe_padavano

This was my point. Unless one is using an older car like this as a daily driver, one will never see the difference between using lead or not in valve life. You are right, it won't hurt the car. I'd be more worried about the health effects of handling that lead additive, however.

droptopron

I'm sure Torco is good stuff but if you want more of an over the counter solution I used Lucas Oil. I had a pinging problem & this rectified it.


http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/l...m=lucas+octane

D. Yaros

As I few my ownership of this ride as a "current stewardship," I do give thought to the next owner (#3). Hopefully, the car will be around long after I am gone, and if using a TEL additive assists in that effort, I am content with that.

MDchanic

The most important question.

BUT, I would suggest that a 1970 W34 engine, at 10.5:1 compression, intended to run on 102 or 104 RON octane fuel, IS pinging on 91 AKI octane fuel whether you can hear it or not, unless it is horribly retarded.

I'd use the Octane Supreme.

For those who are considering using tetraethyl lead just for the valve lubrication, I will say only one thing: Remember lead fouling? Octane Supreme will cause it, just like in the old days.

- Eric

oldcutlass

I don't think there is enough lead in there to cause an issue unless your mixing in a ton of it.

My442

The octane boosters with lead (TEL) are hygroscopic.


That means that the liquid and vapors will permeate your skin and mucous membranes.


TEL is super toxic stuff, so a respirator and rubber gloves are recommended.

Railguy

X2

Plus how would lead help the valve train? Wasn't lead used to raise the octane number and thus get more gallons of gasoline out of a barrel of crude?
And as I've said before if it raises the octane number up to 4 points that means if have 87 octane plus 4 points = up to 87.4.Humm wonder why that wasn't on that chart?
As much as that Can cost I think you'd be farther ahead to buy a gallon or two of 116 and add to a tank.
Railguy

Railguy

I thought lead was used to get more gallons of gasoline out of a barrel of crude. Gasoline know has so many additives adding the " lead" which is I guess TEL after everything else does not work the same adding it instead of everything else .
The subject of octane and octane numbers and gasoline formulas interests me. I'm not disagreeing just try to understand .
Railguy

MDchanic

"Hygroscopic" means that a substance absorbs moisture from the air.
It has nothing to do with your point.
Also, T-E-L is not hygroscopic.

What you probably mean is that T-E-L is water soluble.
That's wrong, too.
Tetraethyl lead is actually a very nonpolar molecule, and will not dissolve in water, only in nonpolar solvents, such as gasoline.

As a nonpolar substance, though, it IS true that T-E-L is easier to absorb into the body, as cell membranes also have nonpolar characteristics (so that they can keep water and dissolved substances in or out), which allows nonpolar substances to enter fairly easily.


As far as needing a respirator and gloves: Seriously?
The severe health problems caused by Tetraethyl lead were in the 1920s, almost a hundred years ago, and happened to workers in the factories where it was made, who wore absolutely no protection, and were exposed to it constantly for years.

A regular person pouring some into his gas tank will not be harmed by T-E-L.

- Eric

MDchanic

The lead in tetraethyl lead acts as a lubricant at the molecular junction between the valve and the seat, preventing micro-welding of the surfaces to one another, which leads to valve seat erosion.



[Takes long pull off of spliff] "Yeah, man. An' the more you use, the more gas you got, right?"
"Ha Ha. Yeah, man, like refried beans, man!"

So, actually, no.
Gasoline is made by separating out the widely varied sizes of molecules in crude oil, and then reacting some of the ones that are less desireable with catalysts to produce more of the molecules that are desireable. If I recall, gasoline is mostly made up of hydrocarbon chains from 8 to 18 carbons long.

Tetraethyl lead is one of many substances that can raise the octane rating of gasoline, thus making it more resistant to spontaneously igniting in the presence of heat and pressure.
This allows the use of higher compression engines, which increases power and fuel economy.



No it doesn't.
In the idiom of octane discussions, if it raises the octane rating by four points, then 87 octane will become 91 octane.



It wouldn't?
Odd, because it does.

- Eric

Railguy

I am sure that if it raised the octane number from 87 to 91 that would be written in the biggest letters on the can. But sense it doesn't ,they say up to 4 points! WOW ! Not up to .4 and hope there's enough people willing to believe the big lie.
Also 8 to 18 ? Really?
Railguy

BlackGold

Maybe not, but a regular person breathing the unburnt TEL in the exhaust from their idling musclecar with a big cam might be harmed. It's my understanding that Toluene fumes are nastier than gasoline fumes, but you probably know better than I.

On the bright side, Wikipedia tells us that:
I think we've all learned something new today.

oldcutlass

How did we all survive (those of us old enough to remember real fuel and other hazards) our child hoods with all that lead around. I pumped gas all through my early childhood to teen years, my family owned a few gas stations. I (and most everyone else) even smoked cigarettes when pumping gas, heaven forbid. There was a body shop in the back that used real lead for patching body panels. When I was in the aircraft industry I was around MEK all day repairing electrical parts. Working on cars in the early years we washed parts in gas, varsol, diesel fuel, toluene, etc...

I wonder what kids today will die from when they get old?

tru-blue 442

Snorting all the burned rubber back then was the antidote, Ahhhh...

My442

Well, I guess the 3 dozen PhDs in chemistry that I work with are wrong about TEL.........what do they know?

tru-blue 442

[QUOTE=oldcutlass;927174
I wonder what kids today will die from when they get old?[/QUOTE]

From what I see from the 25 to 30 yr. old ones, laziness.
Goodness forbid, not all of 'em I hope.

oldcutlass

There have been no real testing of motor fuels long term health effects because people are exposed to so many other things in their lifetime. Just a lot of assumptions based on theory. The reason lead was pulled from being used in fuel had nothing to do with individual health it had to do with not being compatible with emissions equipment, ie catalytic convertors. There are 150 chemicals in gasoline all of which are probably just as bad for you.

If there were that many problems I believe there would be additional commercials on TV from ambulance chasing attorneys asking for people who were damaged by it to step up for another class action lawsuit.

There are chemicals in all the food, products, and construction materials you use personally and in your home, work, and play. Where do you want to draw that line?
In addition feeling as you do about human health, you have the audacity to drive an oil burning, tire smoking, pollution spewing old car that without the latest safety equipment should not be on the road according to other PHD's? Just saying....

tru-blue 442

Agreed Eric. I like the newest 'Truth' commerical about the toxins in cigarettes.
"If you knew, It would scare the Hell out of you."

Destructor

I wish I could still get oil based lead paint for my house.