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Unleaded or Lead additive in a 330 high comp motor ?

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Unleaded or Lead additive in a 330 high comp motor ?

Old August 26th, 2009, 11:55 PM
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Unleaded or Lead additive in a 330 high comp motor ?

The only other thing worrying about driving the Olds when it arrives in Australia, besides the lack of an off-side mirror, is what fuel to use.
The engine is the 1967 330ci 320 hp high compression variety and the current owner uses high test with no lead additive. Says thats OK because its a high compression engine and the valve seats etc are made to take it.Is that correct?
What is the octane level of high test? Our highest pump gas is 98 octane (which I intend using), then it drops to 95 for premium and 91 for straight unleaded. No such thing as leaded fuel here and the lead replacement fuel is rubbish.
Assuming the engine (41,000 original miles) has not been rebuilt (including the heads), am I OK with 98 unleaded on its own or should I put a lead additive in at each fill up. I do not want to destroy a matching numbers engine.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 04:00 AM
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Talking G'day mate

I would think that 98 octane would be just fine by itself without adding a lead substitute. here our fuel is 91 octane and I intend using an octane addative. I would just go with the 98 and see how everything is working before adding anything else.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 04:03 AM
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one more thing

I forgot to mention that you need to prepare to take lots of pics of your car when it arrives then post on the site cause we all love seeing pics.Cheers
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by wolfman98 View Post
I would think that 98 octane would be just fine by itself without adding a lead substitute. here our fuel is 91 octane and I intend using an octane addative. I would just go with the 98 and see how everything is working before adding anything else.
Remember, the octane has nothing to do with the need for lead substitute as it applies to upper cylinder lubrication.
Lead provides *2* things.
1. Upper cylinder lubrication
2. Octane.
Almost all "lead substitute" products do one or the other, but not both. Most products identified as a "lead substitute" are for upper cylinder lubrication. Most octane product say "Octane boost" or some such direct reference to increasing octane.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:06 AM
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You should do fine with the 95 Octane premiun as that is the highest octane pump gas avaible and I use it in my 10.5.1 compression 455 without any pinging. If you so not plan on putting high milage on you olds you will not need to add a lead subsiture either.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by citcapp View Post
You should do fine with the 95 Octane premiun as that is the highest octane pump gas avaible and I use it in my 10.5.1 compression 455 without any pinging. If you so not plan on putting high milage on you olds you will not need to add a lead subsiture either.
Re the need for upper cylinder lubrication, I think the issue here is the severity of use, not the mileage. 100,000 mi is 100,000 miles whether it is over 1 year or 10 years.
There are those that believe if the driving is light, upper cylinder lubrication is not necessary. While I agree it is not nearly as important, I do not agree that it "is not needed". "I don't use it and never had a problem" is not a valid enough argument to convince me that *no* damage is being done. Classic cars are not driven enough to generally bring this valve seat recession to the point of causing major problems.
Adding a preventative is a small price to insure longevity, even if you don't believe it is needed. Personally, I think we need to look farther than the short term. God willing, these cars will (almost) all be around long after we are gone.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 10:46 AM
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I have never had my 64 330 UHC 290hp motor ping. I use the 94 Octane Sunoco fuel and I occasionally run through a bottle of the lead substitute (I do a couple per season in the tank).. You can get 98 octane there?? 94 is the highest I have seen around here unless you go to racing fuel.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wmachine View Post
Re the need for upper cylinder lubrication, I think the issue here is the severity of use, not the mileage. 100,000 mi is 100,000 miles whether it is over 1 year or 10 years.
There are those that believe if the driving is light, upper cylinder lubrication is not necessary. While I agree it is not nearly as important, I do not agree that it "is not needed". "I don't use it and never had a problem" is not a valid enough argument to convince me that *no* damage is being done. Classic cars are not driven enough to generally bring this valve seat recession to the point of causing major problems.
Adding a preventative is a small price to insure longevity, even if you don't believe it is needed. Personally, I think we need to look farther than the short term. God willing, these cars will (almost) all be around long after we are gone.
I was wondering about whether or not to use a lead substitute or just increasing the octane. Where I get fuel their premium is 89 so I thought that i should bump it up a little but lead substitute is not easy to find , then yesterday I was in my favorite auto parts store and they now carry a product that increases the octane and also has a lead substitute. According to the bottle it was made especially for the older classics. I think I may try that to see how it works.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfman98 View Post
I was wondering about whether or not to use a lead substitute or just increasing the octane. Where I get fuel their premium is 89 so I thought that i should bump it up a little but lead substitute is not easy to find , then yesterday I was in my favorite auto parts store and they now carry a product that increases the octane and also has a lead substitute. According to the bottle it was made especially for the older classics. I think I may try that to see how it works.
I get my Lead Substitute from Canadian Tire. It's right with the Fuel Injector and carb cleaner.. Did you check there?
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:56 PM
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I used 93 Octane and lead addtive in my 1968 350 and it ran fine, 91 the MPG would drop wayyyyyyyyy down, don't know why.

I plan on using lead additive in my new motor when it finds it's way into a car. It's a 1967 330 with 10.25:1 compression
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Old August 28th, 2009, 05:03 AM
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Interesting...quite a mixed response.
Here in Australia our regular unleaded is 91 Octane, our Premium Unleaded is 95 and the good stuff (called things like ultra, optimax etc) is 98 octane.And every gas station sells lead additive in little single use containers that you use once per fill.I might go with the additive just to be safe.
The other option I guess, which I used with an MGA I used to own, was a fuel catalyst cannister made by Fuelstar which bolts onto the engine between fuel filter and carby and it adds microscopic soft metal particles to the fuel as plates in the cannister rub against each other and erode. They're supposed to work and last around 500,000 kms (what's that?...300,000+miles).
Has anybody has a high compression engine rebuild that involved making it "suitable for unleaded" or did the workshop say it's good for unleaded as it is? I guess that would answer the question.
Cheers from Sunny (T-shirts in winter) Sydney.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Col Wickham View Post
Has anybody has a high compression engine rebuild that involved making it "suitable for unleaded" or did the workshop say it's good for unleaded as it is? I guess that would answer the question.
What can be done, and is commonly done is to have hardened valve seats installed in the heads. This is a permanent fix that forgoes the need for any lead additive for upper cylinder lubrication. This can be and is done to all makes, it is not just an Old or GM thing.
This, of course, has nothing to do with octane requirements, though.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 05:54 AM
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Thanks Kurt...appreciate that. Not being Olds savvy I just didn't know whether the high compression engines already had hardened valve seats. I'm worried that the guy I'm buying the car off hasn't used an additive since he bought it in 2000 / 12,000 miles ago.Reckon I'll use an additive as soon as I get it.
Cheers
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Old August 28th, 2009, 06:06 AM
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I've managed, more through good luck than competency, to pop a photo into my User ID thingy over there to the left.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 06:21 AM
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Wolfman 98 I just noticed where you're from. Nova Scotia !! I used to have a penfriend from there about 40 years ago. Guy called Christopher Lennox from Piggy's Point. HOW'S THAT FOR A MEMORY ! (don't ask me what happened yesterday though). You ever want to thaw out some time just let me know and I'll pick you up from Sydney airport in the Olds.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 1964CutlassSC View Post
I get my Lead Substitute from Canadian Tire. It's right with the Fuel Injector and carb cleaner.. Did you check there?
Yep but they were out until just recently and did not even have the spot for it on the shelf so I thought they stopped carrying it. The other day while looking for something else I spotted a Motormaster lead substitute. they used to sell the actual lead addative years ago and my dad still had some for his 52 chev.There are all kinds of Octane boosters but this new product is the first I have seen around here that does both.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Col Wickham View Post
Wolfman 98 I just noticed where you're from. Nova Scotia !! I used to have a penfriend from there about 40 years ago. Guy called Christopher Lennox from Piggy's Point. HOW'S THAT FOR A MEMORY ! (don't ask me what happened yesterday though). You ever want to thaw out some time just let me know and I'll pick you up from Sydney airport in the Olds.
Cool I have a buddy that lives around here who is from Australia , maybe I'll hitch a ride with him next time he decides to head home for a visit.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:23 AM
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An FYI:
As far as Octane ratings go, you need to look at it in terms of both the number, and the methodology used to calculate it.
If you look on the pump here in the US, You will generally find Octane listed as R+M/2. That is an average of the two major methods used for calculating Octane (R=research, I think, and M=Motor, I think), each of which arrives at a slightly different number. Check how they calculate it in Australia and Canada to make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Some places may use one or the other, or a different fractional combination of the two.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 09:39 PM
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Yeah until you pull off the heads for the valve seats, I would run the addtive just to be on the safe side.

I personally think the 95 octane will be fine, if not perfect from your car
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Old August 29th, 2009, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Col Wickham View Post
Wolfman 98 I just noticed where you're from. Nova Scotia !! I used to have a penfriend from there about 40 years ago. Guy called Christopher Lennox from Piggy's Point. HOW'S THAT FOR A MEMORY ! (don't ask me what happened yesterday though). You ever want to thaw out some time just let me know and I'll pick you up from Sydney airport in the Olds.
I have never heard of Piggy's Point nor can I find it on a map Maybe you are thinking of Peggy's Cove as that is a popular tourist destination not far from Halifax.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Peggy's Cove, Nova Scotia.

Originally Posted by wolfman98 View Post
I have never heard of Piggy's Point nor can I find it on a map Maybe you are thinking of Peggy's Cove as that is a popular tourist destination not far from Halifax.
Thats probably it. I always thought he was writing "Piggy's" but the i must have been an e. I'm pretty sure he did say Peggy's Point though...Is there one of those around there somewhere? I also remember Halifax. The address may have been Peggy's Point via Halifax. Long time ago.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Col Wickham View Post
Thats probably it. I always thought he was writing "Piggy's" but the i must have been an e. I'm pretty sure he did say Peggy's Point though...Is there one of those around there somewhere? I also remember Halifax. The address may have been Peggy's Point via Halifax. Long time ago.
Yep there is a Peggy"s Point Rd. in halifax , that could be it.
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