The only thing "green" is the money the corporations are making from the trendiness. 24 volts of toxic waste-cadium

 

You just HAD to remind me of this....

 

Electric cars are not new , they just went the way of the typewriter 100yrs ago . Internal combustion engines were more efficient then , as they are now .
The only electric motivation the even makes sense to me at this time is as a final drive , like the trains run .
A small engine running a dynamo to power motors to turn the wheels . Hub mounted motors linked through an ecm can both move and stop the vehicle , on acceleration can act as traction control , and during the stoping action , can act as abs , and regen power to the electrical system .
A completely electric car has no place on a long trip , unless a power grid is provided to continuously supply it , like trolleys and subways .
I've visited the EV sights , thought it would be cool to convert my Fiero/GT40 project to electric . But by the time you add up the cost of the controller , the motor , the cooling system for them , the batteries , the computer to make it all work together , and the the problems with regenerative braking/mechanical brake interfacing (that even plagues Prius ) ~20grand and headaches just don't add up , and make an LS7 conversion look reasonable !

 

The former govenator of ca tried to get them to put in lpg fueling stations along the highways of california so folks could convert their cars to lpg. He was shut down, most of the oil producing nations use lpg in their domestic vehicles.

 

I don't have a problem with electric cars in general, the price is high, but another thing is, you are just changing from oil to coal to propel your vehicle, at least in Michigan. People think that because you don't see emissions from the tailpipe that they are pollution free. They are in fact using electricty generated from a coal fired plant. We do have a couple of nuke plants, one being questionable in it's operating condition. Goverment subsidies? well, the oil companies get goverment subsidies, and they are making hand over fist in profits.....they should need no government help, but there they are, taking our tax dollars, while we pay at the pump!

 

Absolutely true.

I believe that the government subsidizing research to create more viable electric, or hybrid, or chicken-crap-fueled cars is good, and will spill over into other areas of technology as well. Better technology makes our country stronger, as does less energy use (and resulting dependence).

The problem is with government (me) paying for free electricity for people who have already chosen to spend lots of extra dollars on unnecessarily expensive cars (and with subsidizing already-profitable oil companies ).

- Eric

 

First off, I'm glad to be part of a group of people (you guys) who feel the same way as I do. You know, I think it’s sad how things work in our society.

In an ideal world, I’d like to think that the government will take initiative and carry out a master plan that will take care of the problems we’re seeing because of our thirst for oil. But we are slaves to the economy. I think governments and people in general tend to dislike any solution that will reduce revenues or create inconvenience, there’s always a push for more more more.

On one hand, I like this electric highway project because it means that some people are taking initiative to do something, and it helps to keep us talking about it… but that’s the only positive I can see. This attempt doesn't even skim the surface of the problem, I hope the government isn’t simply sinking money for a PR opportunity. Hopefully I'm wrong and someone in charge has a master plan for this that actually makes sense. If this highway is used so much, why not improve mass transportation and reduce the amount of cars on the road?

I hear about the developments in countries like China and India and I find it scary. There are a LOT of people in these countries who are suddenly now able to buy cars, housing, electronics, and other “stuff” where they weren’t before. I can’t blame them at all for wanting these things, it would be selfish to think that I should have something but others who work as hard or harder than me shouldn't. But wow, just imagine how much of an impact that will make on the environment with all those people. Where is this all headed? I hope we (the world) get out of this and do something right. It doesn’t look too promising right now.

 

Could you explain this a bit more for us -my son had a couple of questions about the post and I was not sure about it....

 

I don't understand why manufacturers don't bring more diesels over here. I've driven a few diesel rentals in Europe that I'd be more than happy to buy if they were offered in North America.

Great mileage, low emissions, and fun as hell to drive. I loved the Opel Astra wagon with the 6 speed manual / turbo diesel. That was a fun car to drive in the Alps!

 

Me neither. Completely baffling.



- Eric

 

I've heard that even though they are low emission vehicles, diesels still pollute "too much" for the EPA. That & they just make too much sense & God knows we don't have much sense coming from our government.

 

And this is exactly why LNG or CNG will be powering the bulk of diesel trucks on the road within five years. Large fleet buyers are already ordering them, every diesel engine manufacturer has seriously invested in the technology and LNG and CNG fueling stations are being installed at every major truck stop on the continent. Of course given the price of diesel fuel is what it is the motivation to go LNG or CNG is high since it cost only about half to fuel up a truck with LNG or CNG for the same mileage equivalent.

Good news is just about any internal combustion engine powered vehicle can be converted to run on LNG or CNG at a dollar cost that would pay itself out in cost savings over less than a two year period for a vehicle being used as a typical daily driver. Any dealer selling butane or propane has or can easily get the conversion kits, they've been doing it for years with RVs many of which on the road can be operated with either gasoline, diesel and some some variation of a natural gas produced fuel. Running on propane or butane is not economical because of low energy level produced, just "green" so to speak. Running on LNG or CNG covers both bases. We don't have to worry about running out of natural gas!

 

The US Govt has been subsidizing the Automobile and Petroleum infrastructures in America for decades. This is nothing new.
We might not be a fan of it, but you can't turn a blind eye to it and ignore the reality of it. Corporate welfare is huge here.

Why ?? Because that's who controls the puppets in Washington DC for many decades now, Banks, and Elite Corporations.
......"the people" never have. That's why the corporate owned media only shows you the front runners favored by large corporate interests.

Personally I'm far more supportive of pushing newer self sufficient technologies (electric) over supporting the continuous global conquering agenda of petroleum companies. These "wars" overseas have been around resource control for decades now. Almost every war since the dawn of mankind starting wars has always been around control of resources. Only naive people refuse to acknowledge why we're over in the middle east. It's never been about religion. Thats the BS they feed the bleeding heart sheeple types in America It's ALWAYS been about control of resources , pipelines, and $$$$$$$$$$$.

So absolutely I support more self sufficient technologies. Call it "Green" to make people happy, but in the end it will cost us FAR LESS in global military infrastructure trying to control nations interests and will prevent more political wars over resource control abroad. So it's not just the cost of fuel you can compare it to.....sorry.

We are talking FAR BIGGER circles involved here like military spending, corporate welfare overseas, political buyouts overseas, massive financial manuevers to buy political alliances, etc. Not to mention, the numerous American lives we'll save from having to preach they're fighting for "Freedom" when in reality all they're fighting for is resource control for Global interests.

Personally I'm more interested in Diesel and LPG / CNG options....but this battery tech is at least a step toward self sufficiency.

 

After visiting other countries that have many diesel passenger cars on the road, I prefer they stay out of here. The air reeks of diesel smell day and night, particularly on warm days. It make gasoline exhaust smell like "perfume" to me.

 

Amen!

 

Yes, but what about countries, such as those in all of Europe, where natural gas conversions have been common for 30 years now?

Any gasoline motor can be converted to natural gas quickly and easily, for somewhere around $1,000, including labor (at least that was the price 20 years ago when I observed it), and will run cleaner and last longer after the conversion. These conversions require the installation of a cylindrical tank for the gas, which makes them less useful on small (European) cars, and more useful on commercial vehicles (where the tank can go on the roof, and hold up a sign on either side of it), but there's no reason why we can't be doing them here by the millions, and using our own plentiful natural gas, instead of using oil from countries that can be described charitably as our enemies.

- Eric

 

Not really considering 90% of the heavy rare earth materials needed to manufacture the batteries is located in China. At least oil and natural gas is found all over the world and no one is hostage to a single country and I don't think anyone wants to be held hostage by China.

 

I am all for CNG or even propane as there is no harsh exhaust. But diesel? No way in hell. If that takes hold I would have to have my sense of smell disabled somehow...

 

China holds us hostage in gold. They are buying all the gold they can.

 

Couldn't have said it any better ! I am in total agreement! It's the truth!

 

I have to disagree......

Continental Brines have the largest concentrations in Bolivia, Argentina, Tibet, and China.
But Brines are just one of the 5 sources of Lithium.

http://lithiumabundance.blogspot.com...m-sources.html

 

I think it depends on the country and their local laws. Was just in Jamaica a couple of weeks ago and the diesel stench there was pretty bad. German cities have loads of diesel cars. Totally different scene. No different than any other North American city.

 

I too have heard that it's not that scarce. But I've also heard repeatedly that China is producing 95% of the rare earth compounds now on the market. I believe the enviornmental constraints would prevent it from being mined and processed here in the U.S. John

 

Yes there appears to be lithium deposits in places other than China. However, they are not developed resources. As an example, it is going to take half a billion dollars just to build roads to access what they believe to be producible quantities of Lithium in Bolivia. Other known deposits are known to be combined with Magnesium which appears to present some sort of processing issue.

Lithium is like a lot of other things that have never been seriously looked for anywhere. There is no telling how much may be existing on the North American Continent. Exploration of anything always focuses on how much demand and how easy will it be to mine it and subsequently process into something usable. Theoretically the Bolivian deposits of Lithium would alone be sufficient to supply batteries for electric automobiles of the present nature for some 300 million Chevy Volts, but that is probably highly speculative and about as accurate as 20 year ago predictions of running out of crude oil have turned out to be. Stock traders and commodities brokers are always good at putting out crap to stimulate their business. Unfortunately their crap is often just that, fabricated crap.

 

My tax dollars at work, However. . .

I do believe electric cars are the future, only our idiotic government can't keep their hands out of the market, screwing things up. My wife has a Volt. The best small car I have ever owned. It does everything better then advertised, and has averaged 209 mpg. That said, nobody sucks at wasting money better then the US government. Just like the other winner ideas: cash for clunkers (average cost $25k per clunker), cash for calk, and cash for mortgages, only our government can take a useful idea such as electric cars and turn it into a financial disaster.

 

Oh, I bet the British or French governments could give us a run for our money in that contest .

- Eric

 

Not even close. How many world leaders fly 2 747 everytime the go from DC to NY for a date night?

 

Well, US presidents HAVE to do that.

I mean, what if one plane gets a flat?

Sheesh.

- Eric

 

Being the most important job in the world, and that it is only a 4-8 year job before retirement, perhaps he could skip a few vacations?