Well, about a week and a half ago they had a grand opening of the plug in recharging station in the neighboring town. The plan is to have these along Interstate 5 from Mexico to Canada, one every 40-60 miles. This station has two chargers, the normal one takes 4 hours for a full charge. The fast one will provide 80% charge in 20-30 minutes. This first leg runs about 140 miles and was expected to cost $700,000. For now, its free to charge your car if you don't count the poor schlubs subsidizing this through their taxes. I've never seen a poor person driving an electric car. Even hybrids are not cheap and often driven by people who are well to do and are driving the hybrid just because it makes them feel good. So I'm a little testy at the idea my taxes are paying for those people to feel good. Our national debt is something like 15-16 trillion yet we're spending money like this to help a handful of cars not burn gas. Of the tens of thousands of cars on I-5 each day, the 78 cars using this charger (IF it were running non-stop the full 24 hours) isn't a drop in the bucket. I'm trying really really hard to not be political about this. But if the people managing my tax dollars think this is a good idea they're nuts! OK... I'm going to take a deep breath and calm down now!!!!

P3240345.jpg

P3240343.jpg

P3240342.jpg

P3240344.jpg

 

So it looks to me like you have to join some sort of club to use the charger? I know it's moot but my opinion is that electric cars don't save us anything. It just makes the plants generating electricity work harder. It isn't saving, just redirecting.

And then wait till you have to replace the battery pack in your green car. You will lose a lot of green from your wallet at that point.

If the government really wanted to make a difference they would limit driving. They would limit the number of cars that were allowed on the road. They'd go back to rationing. But that would mean less money for them so we have smoke and mirrors in the form of polititians proclaiming to be pro-green.


Mike

 

Wow.

So if I waste my money on a heavy, expensive, incompletely developed electric car, the government will reward me by giving me YOUR money for free, in the form of electricity, so I can piously lecture you about how morally inferior you are to be driving a used gas-powered POS that cost a tiny fraction of my world-saving car's price, all the while tanking up on free juice while you nervously watch the digits on your gas pump roll ever upward?

Neat.

- Eric

 

Yup, I'm gonna run right out and buy an electric car so I can wear down the battery and get free juice in Oregon.....duh.....I don't mind waiting up to 4 hours.....just think of how many jerks will be waiting in line behind me....YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!!

John? You got every right to be pissed. Your comments are right on the money. Clear cut case of no direction or focus on transportation spending, heck no focus on any kind of spending except corporate hog troughs

Oh yeah, when these stupid chargers are running do they make 'ding, ding, ding' noises like the old pumps did when they were pumping gallons?
Why YES SIR Mr. Free Electricity - fill 'er up with the high current $hit! Man I'm right there with you about 5 feet off the ground.....

 

john, maybe you can get a trailer with a large battery bank on it to power your house and go here to charge the battery bank, lol. if they get mad, just say you wanted your portion of the tax dollars back. Ok, so that wouldn't work.

why do i feel like that will never be as collectible as the first gas pumps are?

 

Are you sure it's free? It looks like they are using a "Speedpass" like system. You bring your key fob near the reader and then you are charged for it on your credit card. Mobil has this system at their gas stations.

 

the great thing is someone who works 50 or 60 miles from home will now spend 10 hours a day on their commute.

 

Don't laugh. We had friends who were "organic farmers," who lived "off the grid" and had huge pivoting solar collectors and a basement full of batteries (I sometimes wonder whether they were farming more "cash crops" than they claimed). If they had installed their batteries in a trailer, they could have done exactly that, and, believe me, they were the type who would have tried it if they could have gotten away with it.

- Eric

 

The directions say to wave your key fob over the dark panel. But in the news report they said it would be free at first to encourage people to start using it. How long it stays free I don't know... but any length of time seems mis-directed to me. The news report also said they haven't decided what the charge will be when they do start charging. I've read the installation was covered with Stimulus dollars. Which seems like a frivolous way to spend money with the small percentage of cars on the highway that will use it. John

 

And what percent would you say that might be, John?

Maybe........ ONE percent ?!?

Guess there's nothing new about any of this after all, is there?

- Eric

ps: and yes, I would very much enjoy a cup of that delicious tea while I occupy myself figuring out percentages. I believe that the two pastimes go together better than many people think.

 

My math shows 78 cars could be charged in 24 hours... if it ran non-stop. I'm sure Interstate 5 has tens of thousands of cars passing this charging station every day. Whatever the number is it would be so insignificant in reducing usage of gas/diesel in that 24 hour period.

 

Imo you spend lets say. 30k on a electric car brand new. payments lets say 380 plus insurance full coverage 100 this is a guestimate. thats 480 a month. I bought my 5.9 cummins diesel powered 94 dodge ram for 3k from a friend 3 years ago. on average i pay 200 a month on fuel and i drive roughly 200 to 250 miles a week. insurance is 300 for 6 months . so for me to drive my truck cost me 250 a month. I just dont get it im a big advocate of diesle cars i love the jetta tdi and they are finaly getting to be affordable i have found them in great shape for 6k they can get very good mpg comparable to some hybrids. Now the issue here lies in the politics and the base of our economy is supply and demand. no matter what we use for fuel for our cars they will jack up the price as soon as the demand goes up. Imo no matter what we do we have to burn some form of fuel wether it be to charge our cars or fuel them and it's never gonna be free so we are all screwed.

 

Watch the documentary gashole. Here is the best clip i found on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vJerAkLhuY

 

Wow,really interesting.Thanks for the link.I cannot fathom 1000 miles to the gallon-the possibilities!
Talk about corporate greed and manipulation

 

there is another story in hotrod magazine on how smokey yunick went to gm with a ready to go prototype of a fiero that would get i think it was 80mpg and would be dead reliable but gm said how could some back woods mechanic tell us how to do our job when we have a building full of engineers. Well rumor has it gm is trying to get a gov. grant to develop hot vapor technology.

 

This is the biggest waste of tax payer dollars. And these dumb things could be installed all over?
If a corporation wants to provide, run, maintain them, and later make $ on them, then fine. The guberment should not need to be providing them.
Heck the buyers of these cars should pay for it and the electricity. However, the $ a company would make made would not be much...
Geez...

And how many people will be smart enough to use that machine? heck, they MIGHT just have to read some instructions! Or might the attendants in Oregon do it for you in fear you would blow yourself to kingdome-come?

 

In the end all these things are created to make money for them. they advocate "we" save money but thay make it ten fold.

 

Do these dunderheads that drive these "Free Electricity" cars get there "Fuel" from fosil fuels that run the plants that generate the "stuff" they're filling their car with??? No they probably think (or substitute your choice of words for what they do) the battery makes electricity like a flashlight battery does. I feel so bad for my grandchildren... what have we done and are doing to this country? How do I look them in the eye??

 

Rob, I didn't think about this until reading your comment. For those of you who haven't been to Oregon lately we don't have self serve gas stations. The people running our state think we're not smart enough to pump our own gas without blowing ourselves up So what will happen when the first person zaps themself doing something wrong with the plug in?

I checked the web sites of our local TV stations and came up with this link. If you want to see the news report of them opening the charging station go to: http://www.kobi5.com/news/local-news...c-highway.html

 

OK, I did a little more surfing and found this site:

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/education.htm

The stat's they use say I-5 has from 71,000 to 300,000 cars per day traveling it, and 10,000 to 35,000 commercial trucks. I don't have a calculator handy but they're going to need to build a whole lot more of these charging stations... and provide tea shops and reading rooms for people to use while they charge their car or wait in line

Yeah... I'm sure someone is getting rich off this scheme

 

if you look back in history most big innovations have come from "non" engineers. engineers by training take ideas and refine them to work effeciently. they are rarely the source of the ideas.

 

It's odd how all the green energy people are pushing electric/hybrid vehicles. They usually have no mention of the larger carbon footprint to produce these new vehicles with the batteries and composites. And what will it take to recycle/get rid of these cars in the future?

 

You hit the nail right on the head when you say "...they will jack up the price...". "They" have been pushing the "green" here in Washington for a several years now. There are even electrical stations with specially-designated parking spots for people with green cars so they can "plug in" while they are at grocery stores. But.....apparently the state is feeling a sort of "squeeze" from the green car effort. The Governor, in just the last few days, signed new legislation that adds an extra $100/year "fee" on license tabs for cars that don't have to go to the gas station. Even owners of green cars cannot avoid the highest state gas tax in the nation anymore.

The entire situation would be completely comical, only if it didn't cost us [taxpayers] so much money.

Randy C.

 

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting indeed.I agree with you. What a joke. Of course the manufacture and contractor are making a small fortune.Wonder if Patton has seen this?
AL

 

yes but the problem is that you are using logic and that does not work with the "greenies". years ago the evironmental extremists burned down the log resturant building at the top of the mountain in Vail, CO. because they were protesting logging. the building was built out of standing dead trees so there was no impact to the environment (the trees were already dead) but between the smoke from the fire and the energy and materials used to replace the building had a big impact. of course the environmentalist claimed it as a "victory". my car has been built and any energy consumed so to drive it causes a minimal impact. to build a new one to replace it consumes lots of energy plus disposing of my current one uses lots of energy so to come out with a positive buying a new car it would need to get 100 mpg or more to break even. but I guess when you live in a fantasy world and ignore physics or basic math all is right with the world.

 

So would this explain the death stares I get from the hybrid drivers when I'm out in my Vista? Must be, cause guess what hippie. Mines cleaner than yours. Its already been "off set" in the 35 years of its existence.

I just can't justify the cost of a 30K dollar electric car. You can buy a lot of gas for that!!

 

⬆⬆⬆ This. ⬆⬆⬆

⬆⬆⬆ and This. ⬆⬆⬆

- Eric

 

Which all support the evidence that going green saves you no green. The green you save from fuel is diverted to electricity, initial cost, REPAIR COST, "new" taxes, longevity, their delicate nature, associated complexity hassles, etc, etc...
Hence the reason i refuse to jump on that bandwagon.

 

Ok, I'm on board with just about everyone who's posted (including myself) about this 'green' issue. And yes you could buy at least (projected at 5.00/gal) 6000 gallons. But if you buy another gasoline car anyway, you have to discount the purchase price of it from the valuation of 'savings' you would get overall. So if you bought only a 20K gas car? You're now down to 2000 gallons in 'savings' which aren't really savings because you need to buy gas now anyways.....so its a circle game

So here's the next "Logical" question in the lineup.
Given that sooner or later, your car will need replacing and you're planning to buy 'new' (a luxury for a lot), do you spend 30k for an electric, or 35k on a hybrid, or 40-50+ on that new dream ride? Or do you consider buying that gramma grocery getter hybrid that's only 3 years old at the used lot? I know that this can't apply to trucks or hauling industry because of the sheer economics of the work those vehicles have to do over a day. The market is changing, but like it or not it's being driven by global, not local economics or needs. There's no question that fossil fuels pollute, and many of you have voiced logical issues with fossil fuel use to produce electricity. But it's also like looking a public transit. New buses use low sulfer diesel and pollute a lot less than ever before, plus they'll carry the equivalent of 30-40 car loads of people at one time. Just loading the stage here somewhat...

I get that electric vehicles are in their infancy. Only 3 years ago the Volt was a concept. Now it's a reality. Years before that, the Prius was the forerunner in hybrid tech, now it's faded into the background with all the offerings that are popping up like maggots on a dead rabbit.

So, do you stay the course with conventional oil cars, or make the switch? (eventually). And then it will come down to modifying either the battery life of the car, or our daily driving habits. I'm really curious to hear back. No, I'm not going soft. I'm just wondering what the possibilities are..

Also FWIW, I've seen vids of electric car vs muscle at the strip. Guess who won? Electric by a long shot. Musta used at least 4 gallons of electricity though?? Nope. There are tradeoffs to everything. IMO Gas powered cars will be around long after me or my family have been planted in the local cornfield, as long as there is a demand for them, and oil prices are 'affordable'.

NOTHING will ever really replace the thunder or smell of gas/nitrous at a drag strip. And I'd cringe at the Daytona or Talladega tracks hosting the 'Whisperquiet 100' where electric speedracers whistle past for a whopping 250 laps..... pit stops only for tires or battery packs! Fine tune that crew chiefs!

 

i know there is 10 sec. electric cars i guess speed of light gets you the 400hp on the spot rather than build it up. But the main issue is the sheer waste of money. Im currently buying a house my mortgage is gonna 812 total with escrow. lets say i buy a new hybrid 30k my payment would be atleats 400 because my gf pays 380 on her 22k yaris they you add fuel the hybrid needs fuel at least 100 a month plsu insurance 100 and maintanance 50 roughly . you are looking at 600+ a month to own one of the cars. My gf aways tells me you deserve a nice truck . i tell her yeah if i want to live in it . If you got the money why not but the problem is our indulgent lifestyle is what drives the the market if none needed to save money on gas no one would buy it there for no push for low mpg. The green mentality is just bogus we recycle but the process to re use it pollutes just as bad as it being put in the dump. not to mention the money paid for workers to process it is a waste. There is no means to this end there will never be becasue the simple fact as soon as there is a market corporate gree steps in and there is a push for a diffrent product etc. it's a viscious cycle .

 

I have no issues with electric cars. my issue is that if and when the technology is viable then the private sector with advance it and bring it to market. american tax dollars should not be spent on ANY business venture. the gov. job is protection of the country and national infrasturcture and issues that are beyond the scope of the individual states. tax dollars should not be used as a "bank" by politicos to force any technology or business on the public.

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with that one sentence.

One of the reasons that this country is (was? ) the world leader in space technology, aviation, communications, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology, and pure science (physics, chemistry, etc.) is government spending on these fields, either currently or in the past (space program technology spun off into thousands of industries and parts of our lives, for example).
Our government is spending less on these fields now, but that's okay, because the Chinese are spending more and more .

- Eric

 

I said it before and I'll say it again big business and gov. Go hand in hand. The gov gives big companies tax brakes and the companies fund political parties and politicians of their intrest in some cases. Our gov is a buisness we pay taxes they invest it .

 

Of course they go ding-ding-ding!

 

Your right. Government and big business go together. Actually, the corporations run the world and the government is their puppet to make it look ok. If you really want an example of this "partnership" read Charles Higham's book entitled Trading With The Enemy. The ****-American money plot 1933-1949. You won't believe what went on during WWII.The auto makers right in there!
Someone wrote on here in the past: The Government doesn't give anything away that it didn't take away from someone.
AL

 

Whisperquiet 100? I like that!

 

Are you kidding me they JUST went to efi decades after it was introduced. How long woukd it take to see electric race cars in the mainstream media lol. The thuderous sound the smells the thrill it's what sells the sport . I have fond memories as a kid at motorsports events and sound ties in with it all and everytime I fire up my cutlass and I hear that roar I'm all smiles. What memories could you tell your kids " let me tell you I had a wicked chevy volt it ran 10s and mom's blender was louder. That story isn't as cool as telling someone you had a gas guzzlin 350 powered cutlass that could spank the pretty boy in the bmw and make him look bad with his pretty little girl in the passenger seat lauginh at him.

 

Ok, since I’m in a Green Cemetery Business [no burial of concrete vaults, formaldehyde embalming fluids and only biodegradable caskets]

Let me jump in here.

There’s Green and there’s “Crazy Green.” My business is a constant balancing act between state and local regulations, trying to be as green as reasonable and serving the needs of families.

There are people in New Mexico who chastise me for not digging graves by hand. Of course, they never seen Georgia red clay mix with Georgia granite.

There are others who think I should know the chemicals used in the glue and how each and every casket is manufactured.

If you think about it,. Your fillings in your teeth are not green; You may have a pin in a hip or knee or a plate in your head. Some things just don't degrade.

IMHO There’s a way to be green and not be a nut case on the subject.

Electric cars are not my cup of tea.

But burying a $1000.00 concrete box filled wit formaldehyde isn’t either.

My long awaited point is, Sure we have environmental concerns but let’s not get into some kind of knee jerk reaction [that politicians are so famous for] and properly assess various ways to make the changes necessary.

 

Jamesbo, I agree with you. My career is in Forestry which both cuts down and plants/nurtures trees. We should take care of the planet but do so in an intelligent way. Our tax dollars should be treated with care as well, spent on things that make sense not the knee jerk reaction you mentioned. To me when I do the math this setup is more of a knee jerk, feel good rock and roll thing than a well thought out wise use of our resources. Those resources include money. John

 

I think the only thing in this project that goes ding is the head of the politicians who approved it.