doramider7

Go!, Sandy, Go!
Not saying much but I couldn't of answered better myself.

I would drop the tank if there is no other documentation though, no big deal.
It would drive me nuts wondering if it's there or not.

stan 65 cutlass

anyone ever find a buildsheet or broadcast card in a CANADIAN made car? mine will go under the knife this winter

GoodOldsGuyDougie

I'm changing my tank when the car leaves the body shop in a while so I'll let you know on the Build sheet. I found some info on my Car taped to the sound board behind the back seat which had never been removed.

1969w3155

"that weathered piece of paper could be worth several thousand dollars. mine is in a saftey deposit box" I don't know the value of these items, but that is why mine are locked up. I never understood why so many people display them at car shows, all it takes is one dishonest person and yer screwed. Throw in some UV rays and it won't be long before they are history.

wmachine

There is no reason to display original paperwork. Color copies can be made that are virtually indistinguishable from the original. And another tip: Have the copies of display items laminated. Keeps them nice, and resistant to the elements.

jaunty75

I think this is only a concern in some instances.

For cars where originality is worth a lot money, where "numbers matching" is everything, and where fakes or "clones" are common, anything that establishes authenticity can be worth significant money. 442s and H/Os, for example, fall into this category.

But, for example, a 1967 Delmont 88 four-door? Who gives a rat's *** whether or not the build sheet has ever been found, or, if it has, what it says?

jaunty75

This is a great idea, except if you have a situation I ran into once where the original was so crispy and curled that, if I tried to smooth it out and flatten it enough to put it on a copier glass, I was afraid it would crack and crumble into little pieces.

I ended up smoothing it as best I could and taking a photograph of it.

wmachine

I do, as do others. Historically, it is no less significant. That's no different than saying "why preserve a '67 Delmont 88 4-dr".

jaunty75

I understand what you're saying. My point was that, for less desirable cars or cars where fakes are not rampant, having the build sheet is not going to contribute much, if anything, to the car's value, so going to the point of storing it in a safe deposit box is probably not necessary.

And yes, sad as it is, there are people who would say "why preserve a '67 Delmont 4-door?"

wmachine

But that isn't what you said.......

I still don't agree that is need any less preservation just because it isn't associated with a higher dollar car. It is no more replaceable, and still deserves preservation.
A less desirable/valuable car shouldn't get an inferior wax either!

coltsneckbob

I have come to believe that creating fake documentation is relatively easy and cheap. I think it is demonstratively more difficult to reproduce an effective fake.

While it is possible to grind down stamps, and casting numbers it is nearly impossible to then reset them without a tell-tale sign that an expert or a good eye cannot find. In fact there are chemical tests that one can use on the metal to see if there were alterations.

I grant you that making a chemical analysis is not within everyone's area of technical expertise; nor are a majority of folks schooled in the art of visually identifying alterations. However, it doesn't take much to learn.

If there is a piece of documentation that is truly valuable and probably un-fake-able (is that a word LOL) it would be a picture histroy of the automobile. It is very difficult (almost impossible) and expensive to alter a film picture.

wmachine

I think you underestimate the ability of forgers. It still does not take rocket science to put together (for example) a 1970 W30 that can be cannot be *proven* to not be original.
My point is not to debate that subject, but to say never the less, it does not take perfect fakes to pollute the market. And the market *is* polluted.

With the very real possibility of forged paperwork, the next level of "documentation" is exactly what you are referring to, Bob. A picture history and/or otherwise known history of the car.

442much

The window price sticker that I use at shows is for show only. It is correct however it is not what came with the car. I made it years later after researching the options and talking with the salesman that sold the car, and even added a few options from the junkyard that are correct for the year but didn't come with the car. After typing it up, I put the paper in the oven and baked it for about 3 minutes. It looks old and brittle. I laminated it and there are even a few pieces missing at the corners reinforcing that it could the original. Most people in the know would see that it's not orginal or even from GM, but the average person wouldn't.
I didn't make it to decieve people, only to show with the car because I thought it was cool.

If people ask, "Is this the original sticker?, I tell them no. However most don't ask. They'll say "Hey look at this, he's got the original window sticker." and walk off. I'm not going to chase them down and correct them. It was made for show. That is all. People want to believe what you are showing is authentic. Some could really get sucked in. It's not that hard to make fakes, especially these days.

jaunty75

Temperature?

One way I heard to make documents look old is to dip them in milk and dry them over a toaster.

442much

250? It was a long time ago. Coffee stains go a long way too.

jaunty75

Yes, but with milk, if the kids get hungry on the way home from the car show, you can feed them the documents. You going to do that with coffee?

stan 65 cutlass

found this today in my 4 door parts car, cool, its canadian eh?
IMG_6384.jpg
IMG_6385.jpg

jaunty75

It's very cool. I especially like the metal plate. It's like another cowl tag, but this one's for the seats alone. At least that's what it looks like.

stan 65 cutlass

the metal tag is the cowl tag,

jaunty75

Sorry. The way the photo looked, I thought it was attached to the seat or at least found with it.

It is a lot different from cowl tags on U.S. cars. No "body by Fisher" for one thing. Was the body made by another supplier?

stan 65 cutlass

body by fisher on the sills,they have a tag for the seats also, i found that on my 4 speed car but no buildsheet or broadcast card yet
IMG_6378.jpg

halfmoontrail

I'd love to see your build sheet, as well as the numbers on your cowl tag after the date code. I'm trying to document a '71 GS455 Stage 1, and the "batch code" numbers on the cowl tyag should be reflected on boxes 10 and 24 of your build sheet.

Thanks in advance,

Steve

DJS70cutlass

You guys have a good thread going here, my Lansing built '70 S had two broadcast cards. One stapled to the carpet by the drivers feet, one in the rear seat back.

pcard

My build sheet (1970 SX) was under the front bench seat.
If anyone has a 1970 build sheet I would love a photocopy or scaned image since I am collecting them for my database.

My442

The last 2 A body cars I have owned came out of the Fremont plant.

Both had PERFECT build sheets on top of the gas tank.

The current 442 was bought at Ruddell Chevy/Olds in Port Angeles, Washington (they are still there).

My car was a customer order.

ELY442

I just found (2) identical build sheets in the driver side bucket seat that im re-upholstering to put in my 70 Cutlass (sport coupe) and the sheet was actually in between the seat spring and the frame of the back side and in between the seat fabric and seat spring on the bottom side. This is from a 70 Cutlass built in Linden, NJ. Was this possible is have (2) identical build sheets?
I also have a 70 Cutlass (sport coupe) that im changing from a bench seat to buckets and it was built in Framingham, MA and it was located under the carpet. It has this brown paint all over the build sheet. I dont know if it was some kind of rust proofing or a seam sealer.
My 70 Cutlass Convertible is also built in Linden, NJ but i dont know where the build sheet is located. This will be in the future plans.

Destructor

Mine was built in Framingham and was found on the tank while replacing rubber lines.

Dave Siltman

I have to mention something here that nobody has considered (yet)---If the build sheet (or data card) was in plain sight (as some were)when the car was new and still in the new car dealer's inventory, it would have been thrown away by the "clean-up" department or by the "get-ready" technician. I'm speaking from a LOT of experience here and trust me---As a salesman, I threw away paperwork that was laying in a car if I had a prospective customer that was ready to BUY!. You have to remember, nobody cared about these "UNITS" except to use them as a means to make a living. Once in a while, something like W-car or a H/O drew some extra attention, but at the dealership (especially a large volume dealership) all we cared about was getting them "OVER THE CURB".

hawks70

I have a 70 Cutlass S from Lansing. Had a card under back seat and a sheet under the sill and carpet on driver side just in front of where seat belt bolts to floor. Almost missed it and threw it out with carpet. Water damaged and fully unreadable.

jaunty75

This is supposedly unheard of. The story is that Lansing specifically kept build sheets out of the cars produced there. You apparently have one that slipped through the cracks. Too bad yours can't be read? Are you 100% sure of this. The FBI has some wonderful techniques, you know...

hawks70

I kept them regardless. Ill dig them up and post pics later today.

DJS70cutlass

Same here, in the exact same locations. The one under the carpet was actually stapled to it.

RMondo

Buildsheet

RMondo

I found a hand written build sheet behind the bucket seat cover on the passenger

jaunty75

It's unlikely to be an actual "build sheet" as the term commonly means as those were not handwritten. Let's see a photo of it.

AJFink

My build sheet was under the front diver side bucket seat tucked in the springs mine is a Fremont,CA-built car. 72 Cutlass Supreme

dc2x4drvr

Top of tank on my Framingham built ‘71 442.