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Norm, Microsoft sent me messages telling me that it wasn't compatible, and still does every week or two. I also did a PC health check, which stated the same.
Yeah, well if you're accustom to believing only what Microsoft states to you, you are likely to find out you are, in fact, compatible. I've seen this a gazillion times. Remember, they're sleeping with the major vendors who puke their Vendor information up to MS who then (supposedly) validates/verifies and oh so conveniently "CERTIFY" that vendor h/w as compatible. Hey, not to worry. You might enjoy a new computer anyways, right?
Many tanks John. I do have a JD tractor and am familiar with push work. I have a hitch on my front bucket and have a dump trailer and a water wagon which I push through the cemetery. I do like the idea of seeing what I'm about to run over
Boy did I sleep good. Left Mom's around 8, came home took a shower, and crawled into bed. I was beat. Mowed the rest of the yard, this after getting up for work at 2am. Tiger wanted to go out around 1, then I didn't get up again until 730. Glorious.
Gonna be nice today, if not hot. Laundry to do so that means sticking close to the house. I might tinker on a couple cars that need to be moved.
I wish you guys would take your computer talk somewhere else. I don't want my 4 or 5 year old laptop to get any ideas of going tango uniform. Knock on wood it's been working okay these last years and I don't want to have to go find another one. Buying this one was like pulling teeth. All the electronics stores, besides having no one there to answer my questions, only had tablets or $1000 computers. I finally got this one at Walmart, an Acer with a fairly small screen and it was 400. I had an Acer desktop years ago that didn't last more than a couple years. This one has far outlasted it.
Norm when you built your mega-bathroom, why didn't you relocate the water heater in there so it would be easier access?
Okay gonna start the day. Have a great one everyone!
At my 2nd Show in as many days! Longer drive than most Shows I go to, about 60-miles. It was a nice drive though. It won't be quite so nice this afternoon when it's 94° with no A/C. Nice thing is I'm parked in a nice spot with shade. Should be a very nice show by the way cars are rolling in. Hope you all have a great day.
Did not do a whole lot yesterday. I dicked around, then got on the treadmill. I missed a day while mowing Wed, but I've done 6 of the past 7 days, up to 2 miles of running, down some 9 pounds. Got done, took shower. I had previously loaded a 67 Cutlass hood into my truck for transport to the new property. I was going to go before the gun range board meeting, but was too late, and stayed till midnight at the range talking with friends, so it's still in the truck. I'm a board alternate on the board for the range, and will probably get a board slot this fall. It's nice to be involved, but I am feeling that sucking feeling that you get when you get more involved with volunteer groups. I already teach Appleseed a few weekends a year, edit the H/OCA rag, and then have my personal hobbies to occupy my time, along with the Great Move. Fortunately, the gun range stuff dovetails with Appleseed and shooting just fine.
The gun range meeting has "gun of the month" where a guy takes club funds, buy a gun or two, and raffles them for $10 a pop to people at the meeting. I won first pick of two, so I went home with a nice little new Ruger Wrangler, which is a low features single action 22LR six shooter. It was that or a Kel Tec weird shotgun pistol thing that would've destroyed my wrists, so I took the Ruger. I'll take a pistol like that for $10.
Dan, I have to read the manual in a big way on this camera. So many features.
Dan/Chris/Norm, from what I understand, there's a specific chip dongle on the motherboards called Trusted Platform Module and it is basically hardware encryption. I think a lot of it is forced obsolescence. My machine here has the power to run windows 11, and I might refurb it, I need to see if there's a jack for a TPM, but most of my issues is because I haven't formatted it in 7.5 years. I have some parts for a new one.
Water heater location is something I am looking at for my new place. I want fast hot water to the bathrooms, somewhat fast to the kitchen, and to the front of house bathroom it can be slower.
Chris - Happy 4th. Your car looks great. It looks like a wonderful day for a show - enjoy yourself.
Tanks Norm - It's gorgeous right now in the shade with a nice breeze blowing. Lots of great discussions with other owners and spectators! Great day for sure!
Dan/Chris/Norm, from what I understand, there's a specific chip dongle on the motherboards called Trusted Platform Module and it is basically hardware encryption. I think a lot of it is forced obsolescence. My machine here has the power to run windows 11, and I might refurb it, I need to see if there's a jack for a TPM, but most of my issues is because I haven't formatted it in 7.5 years. I have some parts for a new one.
TPM is a requirement for W11. UEFI BIOS is a requirement for W11. UEFI BIOS (PC firmware). To support UEFI BIOS your HDD/SDD must be formatted UEFI. You enable TPM via the UEFI BIOS interface. Each piece of h/w must be certified TPM compliant.
You might think of it as chip dongle (not a bad analogy); yet, TPM is a BIOS (machine level) cryptographic algorithm which resides &/or is contained w/in a chip on the Mobo. That chip can be located on the Mobo or contained w/in the CPU. As such, the algorithm must be recognized via W11. Each "piece" of h/w must be compatible w/ the Mobo algorithm. These algorithms are (for the most part) hardware manufacture-compliant. When the OS boots, TPM validates the integrity of each device (h/w) located in the system (as a whole) - not simply the Mobo &/or CPU. TPM protects access to devices at the h/w level - not the s/w level.
Digital cryptography is, yes, written at the s/w level; yet, any piece of h/w can employ a piece of s/w (contained w/in that piece of h/w) encoded at the h/w level. Sounds like pooey doesn't it. Might think of (as an analogy) the notion of a "modem" & like John eluded to, a type of dongle. The encryption key used in TPM is set at the h/w level. Historically & today many network cards have a chip keyed at the h/w level. Cell phones and cellular networks employ a form of TPM. Like the analogy of a dongle &/or a modem, you historically could set the switches via up/down, ON/OFF, etc. manually. Each different switch setting encoded a different encryption key (based upon switch settings). Without (hopefully) complicating this, nearly every single communication device (in the world) employs a SID (Security Identifier). A SID is not germane to a Microsoft Operating System (OS). The SID is a Security Principal which resides w/in the OS. Whether you're on a phone, computer, automobile, piece of machinery - any device/system which requires you to login/logon - a SID is generated. A human readable SID might look something like this:
S-1-5-21-3623811015-3361044348-30300820-1013
The SID contains unique information regarding the user login name, p/w, device (phone, tractor, car, pc/desktop, etc.), OS, hdd/sdd, usb, mobo, nic, etc. etc. - it contains it all. The SID is then encrypted. TPM is actually written at the s/w level (employing SIDs). When it comes time for a user to login/logon to a "system" e.g. a car, a tractor, a server, a pc, a BSL-4 bio-safety lab, any device (piece of machinery), the TPM encryptographic key is combined w/ the encrypted SID to yield a final TPM encrypted module which is then stored at the BIOS level. Together, they create an environmental "challenge". Historically, the bad people have only had to rely on breaking essentially a single encryptographic s/w key (algorithm) to gain access to a system & bring it to its knees. What this amounts to is MS has forced users to employ TPM (TPM 2.0 minimum) in order to protect the user from bad people accessing their goodies at the actual h/w device level.
Water heater location is something I am looking at for my new place. I want fast hot water to the bathrooms, somewhat fast to the kitchen, and to the front of house bathroom it can be slower.
John - As you're aware you could employ a mix of hot water heater(s), as well. On-Demand maybe for bathrooms then maybe water heater for other areas - whole house minus bathrooms. Consider installing a newer styled water conditioning system instead of a water softener if you're thinking of conditioning your water. These systems work for both well & municipal. I like the ZILMET ActivFlo water conditioning system. Basically a simple in-line (ion exchange) cartridge w/ a twelve year warranty. Soft water conditioning really does improve the lifetime of any water-dependent appliance/device from a simple solenoid actuated switch to any metal contained in a device.
Mike - I'm back to your water heater because you have an issue & I'd like to assist you in evaluating "why" you have an issue:
My water heater must be leaking at a seam underneath somewhere. The pan is always full of water and I have a pan under the pan's drain. It usually has about a gallon and a half in it a day, which gets dumped out into the yard. It isn't too old, 2018, but I want to replace it with an electric heater. Not as efficient I know, but it will save me a gas bill in the summer.
That amount of leaking water/day is insane not to mention it is unsafe. Let's evaluate. I'm not 100% certain how you have a pan under the pan's drain - I don't know what that means. But, you evidently have a pan (of some time) to catch this 1.5 gals of water each day which you dump into the yard. Your water heater is only 7 years old.
(1) I highly suspect the water is not leaking from the bottom of the tank (unless your tank is configured incorrectly). Instead, I highly suspect the water is being discharged via your T&P (Temperature & Pressure) relief valve. Some are located on top of the tank others are located on the side of the tank. In both cases you should see a tube (PEX, PVC, galvanized aluminum or copper) which runs from the T&P valve & terminates to the floor (e.g. a drain or a pan).
(2) This does NOT necessarily involve a constant/continual leak. The discharge can, and often does occur in bursts maybe 2 - 3 bursts/hr - enough to be filling the pan you are continually having to dump into your yard.
Let's look at this further, since you're are going to have to resolve this issue.
(1) How long has this occurred? Since Day 1 of the water heater installation or it has developed this condition recently or over a period of time (e.g. one year, two years, 3 years, etc.)?
(2) Bad heating elements can cause an uncontrolled increase in water temperature. Do you see/feel/observe any increases (as well as decreases) in water temperature throughout the day/week, etc.? As water temperature increases, the water heater tank pressure expands/increases. If the pressure increases beyond the capacity of the tank (regulated via the T&P valve), the T&P valve will open, discharging water to relieve the pressure.
(3) Where do you source your water - well, reservoir, water tower storage tank?
(4) Do you have an expansion tank installed in-line prior to the water heater? Many (Most) homes don't require an expansion tank, they're small and configured in-line into the cold water inlet of the water heater. They operate as a shock absorber to contain/constrain/relieve water pressure. Normal household water pressure is between 40psi - 60psi. Not to worry, you aren't going to have to measure (unless you want to).
Depending on where you source your water & whether you have fluctuations in your water temperature, there are a couple methods to address your daily dumping of 1.5 gals water into your yard. Buddy, this needs to be addressed as it is serious. I can help you resolve this issue & quite frankly quite easily if you address my questions.
EDIT: I forgot, you have a gas water heater - therefore electric heating elements would not be in play. None-the-less, you likely have one or several gas heating elements inside the water tank which are heated via your pilot light gas inlet valve. Also, in both instances, there's a chance one or several heat thermostats are bad (unlikely at this point) - possibly.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; Jul 4, 2025 at 04:19 PM.
Mike - Thought about this. I'll bet you have a water heater stand which supports your (gas) water heater. Under the water heater you have a standard water heater pan - often aluminum or plastic; then, under the water heater pan you have another pan or bucket catching the water. So, the water discharges from the water heater, that water fills the water heater pan, then water in the water heater pan overflows & you catch the water in the bucket underneath.
Currently getting some (overdue) rain from the extreme outer bands of Tropical Storm Chantal moving up the SE coast. Will be getting more rain over the next several days as the storm weakens into a depression. Looks like no golf for Monday. Maybe a good thing for me to stay clear since the back could use the rest.
I had a great time at the 4th of July Car Show in Red Bud, IL yesterday. It was hotter than Hell (96°), but I was fortunate enough to have shade all day and there was a decent breeze. I got stuck in the dreaded 1964 - 1972 Muscle Car Class and didn't place in the Top 3 with some fierce and deserving competition. I had great discussions with many owners and spectators all day, and won a nice shop light (pic) as an attendance prize. Boy howdy was it a hot ride home. Thank God for my auxiliary electric pusher fan when I got stopped at stop lights going back thru the towns of Waterloo and Columbia. Here's a link to the pics if you want to check them out: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...1/#post1638032
Now I need to catch up on what ya'll have been up to! Hope you all have a great day!
Cool shop light as an attendance prize. This sucker throws out a bunch of light. Both the hanger hook at the top and a magnetic base. It can be oriented in almost any direction. I will definitely get some use out of this!
It took me five hours to do what took nine, and that's with washing the deck for 40 min included. If I get the trees trimmed and can keep the tractor stored in one piece, I think I can get mowing time down to 3 hours. Once I put a house out there, and get the dirt off the berm building roof, I think I can get it down to 2.
Outstanding! That what it's supposed to do, Rock On!
Went for a nice long ride, too many cars on the roads though and too many red lights. The last few rides I've done where I get stuck in traffic the temp on the gauge will creep up to almost 220 degrees. It hasn't boiled over and when I check the radiator level the next day it's right up to level. The only thing is when it gets that hot and I pull away from the stop it'll bog down and sounds like a backfire.
Art - After reading your post I feel like a wimp worrying about my car going above 205° yesterday on the ways home! Same scenario as you though, cooling ability at idle in hot temps. Seriously though, I'd be super concerned letting your's get above 215°, from what I know and have read, past that point you're entering the super danger zone of blowing a head gasket or worse.
I used to drive my '67 4-4-2 down & back to Ft. Lauderdale each year (1970-1973) during spring break loaded w/ four passengers (girlfriend[s]/boyfriend[s]) w/ a trunk loaded so full you had to push it down to close it. RT Chicago><Ft.Lauderdale stopping only for gas/food cruising between 75mph - 80mph w/o a care in the world. The only thing I carried in the trunk was a new thermostat & enough tools to change it out if needed. Never needed it. Alligator alley was a beat-up asphalt/gravel two-lane road w/ gators everywhere. Memory lane.
Chris - I have a similar shop light, but electric. Thought about the battery type but opted for the electric when I picked it up. Yeah, nice & bright they are. Cool attendance award.
Made to the grocery store & back between showers - lovely day, really. Next door neighbor was out & about so he helped me push the Indian up the small/shallow lift ramp. Now, I can change out the starter w/o busting up my back, knees, hip etc. - so nice working @ waist height.
Originally Posted by Koda
It took me five hours to do what took nine, and that's with washing the deck for 40 min included. If I get the trees trimmed and can keep the tractor stored in one piece, I think I can get mowing time down to 3 hours. Once I put a house out there, and get the dirt off the berm building roof, I think I can get it down to 2.
Originally Posted by Dream67Olds442
Outstanding! That what it's supposed to do, Rock On!
John - Yeah, just getting the Vertac PLUS the accessory implements of destruction stored in a single covered barn will save significant time. Wish I were closer to you we'd knock that out in no time. I think you already have some type plan to widen the doors in one barn or something like that. That'll help enormously.
Did not do a whole lot yesterday. I dicked around, then got on the treadmill. I missed a day while mowing Wed, but I've done 6 of the past 7 days, up to 2 miles of running, down some 9 pounds.
John - Congrats on the weight loss, that's terrific! Stay with it even after you've reached your weight loss goal. 👍
Norm - I bet those trips to Florida in the '67 were awesome! I got lucky with the shop light. They only had 2 of those lights on the table with available attendance prizes. When they called your ticket you just went up and picked out anything you wanted. My number was called in the 2nd group of 4 numbers called and luckily 1 of the 2 was left when I got up there! 😃
The flooding in Texas is devastating. In 1983 the Buffalo National River, Arkansas rose 68' at mid-river - two feet above the 66' tall bridge - 150 yrs flood. We were using a couple Zodiac's pulling/rescuing people clinging for life to bent-over trees in the river. I feel their pain.
The flooding in Texas is devastating. In 1983 the Buffalo National River, Arkansas rose 68' at mid-river - two feet above the 66' tall bridge - 150 yrs flood. We were using a couple Zodiac's pulling/rescuing people clinging for life to bent-over trees in the river. I feel their pain.
You're right, so devastating, and the loss of life so sad. Just horrible!
Had a nice day with some of my most favorite people. We met at a car museum up north of the city and then had a nice lunch. Lots of talk and just enjoying each other's company. We don't do this nearly enough.
Norm I believe my water heater install is what I call an "Adam Special." Adam is the guy I bought the house from. As far as a Honda mechanic, the man is an absolute wizard. Everything else, not so much. The heater is up on a concrete block, and sits in an aluminum pan and doesn't quite fit, so the heater is at a bit of an angle. Someone, presumably Adam, put a PVC drain fitting in the side of the aluminum pan, so the pan has been filling for quite a while, longer than I've lived here for sure. The blow off valve -used- to blow off every couple of days, putting lots of water all over the floor. I've turned the temp down and it doesn't do that anymore, though the inside of the pipe coming off the valve is always wet. The pipe only comes out of the valve a few inches, it doesn't go to the floor. The temp remains constant, though I turned it down little by little until it stopped blowing off, but still was comfortable. I prop a plastic pan under the PVC drain opening and that's what catches the water. Question. If I were to turn the heater off and then plug the drain tube, would that create any problems? I'm going to be gone for several days here at the end of the month, and don't want to come back to a bunch of water on the floor. There are no drains in the floor of the basement(daylight basement) and even attaching a hose to the drain I'd have nowhere to run it. I don't want to leave a door or window open for the hose to go through because I don't want critters coming in. I'd just as soon put in an electric water heater so I can turn the gas off completely over the summer and save myself 60 bucks a month. And get it up off the floor to the correct height. And level it out so it isn't sitting crooked. Actually I don't think an electric one needs to be any certain distance off the floor.
Okay! Nice pictures Chris of the car show. Thanks for driving into our crooked state and spending money to go in the politician's pockets. You know I really like the Olds wheels on there better than the other ones.
Mike - Hope you liked the Corvairs, or at least one of them??? LoL 😆
Is there a shut off valve right before the intake to your water heater, if so, shut it off right before your trip, and then turn off the breaker to the water heater. If there is not a shut off valve right before the inlet to the water heater, trace the inlet line back to where there is a shut-off valve, shut it down there before your trip and then turn off the breaker to the water heater.
Hi everyone.
Okay! Nice pictures Chris of the car show. Thanks for driving into our crooked state and spending money to go in the politician's pockets. You know I really like the Olds wheels on there better than the other ones.
Mike - Sounds like you had a great time with your friends af the car museum, that's awesome! Maybe things are different here around me in Southern Illinois? I have several buddies that live on the IL side of the river that love it? Maybe it's just the area around Chi Town that is politically corrupt and not worth a ****?
I like the SS1's better too Mike, both in appearance and function. The car has a smoother ride with the higher sidewall of the 235/60R15's vs. the 235/55R/17's that were on the Torque Thrust style wheels.
Pretty laid back day. Dawn got up pretty early to get ready to go paint. She woke me up at 0730 before going out the door because the dogs had got up when she did.
I kept putting off my lifting workout because I wasn't feeling it. I finally got around to starting it around 2pm, and when I finished around 3:30 I changed and went off to get burgers for dinner. I got the pups their own burger to split (they get the bun too), and they were in hog heaven. Just say the word burger and Monty starts dancing around.
It got 3 or 4-degrees hotter here today than forecasted, around 95°. It felt blistering when I went out to get dinner. Cooler tomorrow, around 88°, and staying in the mid to upper-80's for the next several days with a fair chance of rain every day thru next weekend.
One of my favorite Car Shows is next weekend on Saturday at the Moose Lodge in Union, MO, and I was really looking forward to going to it. Unfortunately Saturday is the day Gabe and Keegan are playing in the Select Hockey Tournament they were drafted for. I have no idea what times they are playing at, I don't think the schedule is out yet, but I'm sure an all day Car Show is not going to fit into the mix. No way in hell I'd ever go to a Car Show when I have the opportunity to see either of them play!
Hope everyone has had a great day and has a relaxing evening!
Mike -
(1) Water heater installation requirements are for the most part based on National plumbing codes but/yet are (can be) supplemented via local (state/municipality) plumbing codes. So, you have an "Adam Special" installation, eh?
(2) The primary reason to install a gas water heater a minimum of 18" above ground is/was based upon drafting - e.g. wind drafts - as a precautionary safety measure. I'm not certain this safety requirement remains valid. I'll see if I can find anything for Georgia or your municipality. The essence was if there should occur a leak in a particular type of enclosed space where other wind/draft sources could influence ignition of a gas source leak, a minimum distance above the floor was considered a safety measure.
(3) An unevenly mounted gas water heater is a definite "no-no" primarily because of the way a gas water heater heats the water. You want to achieve a solid (good) burn from the ignited gas source to the heating element(s). Uneven (tilted) gas water heater heating element(s) require far more energy to heat from an ignited gas flame source than an electrical heating element(s). In essence the "uneven" gas water heater is working far harder to maintain thermostatic water temperature because simply the heating source is not optimal for heating the element(s) - taking far more energy (gas) to maintain temperature. This "could" be the source of your primary issue. A gas water heater doesn't need to be exactly plumb (w/in several millimeters) but it needs to be as plumb (flat) as possible. Far more leeway w/ an electric water heater which would be solely based upon electrical contact flow as opposed to a gas flame which would be far more susceptible to heat loss.
(4) Unlike an electric water heater the gas water heater requires a flue (to vent combustion). Obviously, an electric water heater requires no flue.
(5) I'm not 100% where you're going next w/ resolution, but I suspect you're going to buy a new water heater - I suggest electric over gas operation. You're going to find this part to be annoying but it is viewed as code non-compliance to regulate any water temperature of any water heater via employment of the T&P valve. Essentially, that's what you're doing right now. You're turning down your water heater temperature so the T&P valve is no longer discharging water. IOW, the T&P valve is a safety device (valve) not a regulatory valve.
(6) Turn off the pilot light (gas source) is really all you'd need to do when you leave. Without a gas source you won't have a heat source to raise/maintain water temperature. Albeit, without a heat source to maintain temperature you'll have no increase in pressure and no leaking. A traditional gas water heater with a standing pilot light is designed to operate without electricity, relying on mechanical and thermal processes to function. What type/style gas water heater you have installed I can't say. A pilot light used to initially "ignite" the gas most often done mechanically. If you do have an electric source to ignite the pilot then turn off the breaker for that electric power source.
Sorry the "Adam Special" installation has resulted in a very short lifespan to what would likely have been a great operating water heater. Finally, you know when it's most likely this discharge (leaking) is occurring most often, right? When you're NOT using hot water - e.g. less demand for hot water. As you use hot water throughout the day (or night), or whenever, you'll have a tendency to reduce pressure buildup resulting in no water discharge from the T&P valve since the water heater isn't reaching maximum (designed) temperature & pressure. When the water heater is not in use, the water heater is increasing the temperature resulting in an increase in pressure and discharging via the T&P valve.
I'll say this - it's a DAMN good thing you have a working T&P valve, buddy.
Last edited by Vintage Chief; Jul 5, 2025 at 04:57 PM.
Mike/Norm - I'm sorry for my wildly erroneous response to what Mike should do to his water heater before leaving for multiple days. For some reason I thought he had an electric water heater. So sorry!
Mike/Norm - I'm sorry for my wildly erroneous response to what Mike should do to his water heater before leaving for multiple days. For some reason I thought he had an electric water heater. So sorry!
Chris - NP, no worries. None of us intend to turn this thread into **** show as sometimes occurs w/ certain/select members on other threads. Sometimes I wonder about the sanity of some members.
Yet, your advice isn't "that" bad - to turn off the water supply valve. But, you'd have to make damn sure you turn off the gas.
Yet, your advice isn't "that" bad - to turn off the water supply valve. But, you'd have to make damn sure you turn off the gas.
Yep, turn off the gas for sure. I don't know if you remember, but it was only about a month and a half ago that I had to replace my temp/pressure relief valve on my electric water heater. Until I got my replacement part I was shutting off the water shut-off valve right at the top of the water heater and shutting off the breaker to it when we were gone for extended periods of time. Glad you're not going to flog me with a knotted plow line!
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; Jul 5, 2025 at 05:48 PM.
Mike - When you buy your new water heater, depending on the type water plumbing currently installed, you may need to install new or additional water plumbing if you drop/move the (electric) water heater to floor level. However, there's no reason you can't install a new water heater on that stand you're currently using so your water plumbing lines align with the new water heater - just something to keep in mind if you want to maintain same water plumbing alignment. Try to shore up the water heater &/or stand to something you'd call relatively level/plumb. The "Adam Special" likely didn't come with a (carpenter's) spirit level.
