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I don't trust any W-30 car without bonafide paperwork anymore. I don't believe a "Rocket Report" qualifies as such documentation, no matter whether they include a COA or not. I'm not claiming this isn't a real W-30, and it's a super-nice restoraton, but it's so unfortunate that unless there's documentation I've yet to see, I'd be a bit wary of it. I don't know the entire history of the car, thus my suspicions will always exist. Maybe some of y'all know the car. If it is a fake, it's an excellent one, I'd give it that.
Here's an example of the "Rocket Report" not being gospel confirming documentation, IMO. Yammers on about "Has it's (sic) original born with 1970 "flat-ridge" only front fenders." Yet, looking at the pictures of said front fenders in the auction ad, you can definitely determine that the "442" numerals on BOTH sides of the car do not line up well like the factory would have done it. The originals used machine-punched holes that lined up the numerals perfectly. This tells me the fenders were replaced with 70 front fenders at some point, but they're not original to THIS car anyway, like another part of the "report" mentions they are. Another picture shows a date stamp (on the transmission I think) of November 12. This is the Wednesday of that 2nd week in November 69 when the TPW of the car was purportedly built. I realize JIT production methods exist, but I don't think they existed that tight back in November of 69. Possible? Yes. Probable? I'm not totally convinced that the transmission got built one day then ended up on the assembly line the next day or Friday. Maybe it did, I wasn't there. GM always did strange things. If the car was delayed being built until the following week, that's one thing. I don't know the actual date the car was built, so I dunno. But it COULDN'T have been the beginning of 11B, that's for sure if you believe the trans date code to be correct.
I agree, w/o factory docs. approach with caution. Minore has a lot of knowledge on these cars, but, everything that makes a W30 a W30, can be added to any 442.
I don't trust any W-30 car without bonafide paperwork anymore. I don't believe a "Rocket Report" qualifies as such documentation, no matter whether they include a COA or not. I'm not claiming this isn't a real W-30, and it's a super-nice restoraton, but it's so unfortunate that unless there's documentation I've yet to see, I'd be a bit wary of it. I don't know the entire history of the car, thus my suspicions will always exist. Maybe some of y'all know the car. If it is a fake, it's an excellent one, I'd give it that.
Here's an example of the "Rocket Report" not being gospel confirming documentation, IMO. Yammers on about "Has it's (sic) original born with 1970 "flat-ridge" only front fenders." Yet, looking at the pictures of said front fenders in the auction ad, you can definitely determine that the "442" numerals on BOTH sides of the car do not line up well like the factory would have done it. The originals used machine-punched holes that lined up the numerals perfectly. This tells me the fenders were replaced with 70 front fenders at some point, but they're not original to THIS car anyway, like another part of the "report" mentions they are. Another picture shows a date stamp (on the transmission I think) of November 12. This is the Wednesday of that 2nd week in November 69 when the TPW of the car was purportedly built. I realize JIT production methods exist, but I don't think they existed that tight back in November of 69. Possible? Yes. Probable? I'm not totally convinced that the transmission got built one day then ended up on the assembly line the next day or Friday. Maybe it did, I wasn't there. GM always did strange things. If the car was delayed being built until the following week, that's one thing. I don't know the actual date the car was built, so I dunno. But it COULDN'T have been the beginning of 11B, that's for sure if you believe the trans date code to be correct.
‘Well thought out argument on this car. I surely don’t know if the trans was built and used the next day, it doesn’t really seem like that’s a possibility but it could. I need to look at my build date on my car’s transmission and see how close it is to the cars build date. My car is the same exact car and color as this but with gold interior and no vinyl top. I will check that out. Good call on the fenders as well. Minore has built up quite a reputation on verification, but I agree, nothing says bona fide like factory original documents. This is a beautiful car though I’ll give them that. The markets kind of fickle right now so I don’t know what it’s going to end up at, my guess is in 125 to 135 range. I’m not an investor, but if I was, I would only want cars that were truly documented with GM documentation as an investment. But that’s just me and my opinion. On a side note, the stripes going over the wheel wells are thinner than the factory for sure.
Minore has built up quite a reputation on verification, but I agree, nothing says bona fide like factory original documents.
And that makes me wonder if what Minore says actually was a simple oversight or just not being attentive to the details. Big difference is if I'm wrong, it didn't cost the owner anything. But if he's wrong or incorrect on this, what else could be an issue with his observations on this or any other car?
Yeah, I'd still want to own it, but there'd have to be a huge price adjustment if it's a fake. I doubt it is fake, but in today's environment, you really need to know the facts.
Wrong on the "side stripe...not properly centered". The "slightly low" placement of the W30 emblem is common on original cars.
What's up with the frame front cross member??
Love it when a reply to a comment start with "Wrong" lol
Yeah 'slightly' low at times, I'm sure there was variance car to car as they flew down the line. Placement looks off to me, on a repaint like this I'd put it closer to center. Cheers
The Sebring Yellow pic is factory original paint '70 W-30, The other 2 pics are the car for sale being discussed here
Left fender not so good:
Last edited by w30brad; June 29th, 2024 at 05:21 PM.
Two questions. 1) I did not recall the flat front fenders having a date stamp on them as mentioned...where exactly is this stamp as I still have the flat ridge fenders on my 70-442. 2) I thought the date stamp of manufacture for a rear end was a 3 numeral stamp on the pumpkin of rear end, not a letter/numeral shown on the Rocket Report as well...which is correct? Thx
I thought the date stamp of manufacture for a rear end was a 3 numeral stamp on the pumpkin of rear end, not a letter/numeral shown on the Rocket Report as well...which is correct? Thx
There's an alphanumeric 2 or 3 digit date code stamp on the rear of the pumpkin. Alpha is month and 1 or 2 digits for date.
Last edited by w30brad; June 29th, 2024 at 05:35 PM.
Jesus so many **** comments. Almost no car is 100% correct or perfectly restored, including my frame off 69 HO. Why pick the F_ing car apart, just to feel better about yourself? Ill bet most of you dont have one even half as nice. Rant over....
jesus so many **** comments. Almost no car is 100% correct or perfectly restored, including my frame off 69 ho. Why pick the f_ing car apart, just to feel better about yourself? Ill bet most of you dont have one even half as nice. Rant over....
Jesus so many **** comments. Almost no car is 100% correct or perfectly restored, including my frame off 69 HO. Why pick the F_ing car apart, just to feel better about yourself? Ill bet most of you dont have one even half as nice. Rant over....
You'd lost that bet on most of us....
I make, and appreciate those of others, comments on cars for sale on popular sites here for two reasons. First, it is educational. I share what I know to be correct, and others do the same, and we both learn something. Secondly, prices have really shot up into strong money territory. So many people who are not in market to buy, if they already own one, really want to see prices go up because it makes their car more valuable, especially if they've overextended themselves financially to get their car in the first place and had to sell the idea to the wife as in investment. On the flip side, many of us would prefer to see values stay at sane levels to not prevent entry into the hobby by new generations. As such, to avoid price creep, people point out why the price is too high on a given car, and things like crooked emblems, bad stripes, mini starters, etc. affect that value. In other words, no, the car is not correct, and that's not a problem, but the price point it is heading into is that of a correct car.
Jesus so many **** comments. Almost no car is 100% correct or perfectly restored, including my frame off 69 HO. Why pick the F_ing car apart, just to feel better about yourself? Ill bet most of you dont have one even half as nice. Rant over....
Why? Because we can. If it were a 71 Vega, nobody would likely care. But 70 442s are something many here have a lot of knowledge about. And apparently the guy who got paid to do a whole report and COA on this car failed. We just help point out what he apparently missed or decided to keep to himself, or was just plain wrong about. No one person knows everything about these cars. But there's several people here that DO know these cars and can point out the discrepancies. If this was a forum member's car, and they were just posting pics, nobody would be saying much about any negative stuff. But since it's put on BAT and they're likely expecting a big payday with all the alleged "supporting" documentation, it's going to come under tight scrutiny. That's just how it is.
I think many people here have said they actually like the car and the restoration was done pretty well. Just might not be well enough depending on the sale price. I guess we'll see what the final price is to make further comments about that. The nit-pick comments only seem **** because you believe that. I'm betting others don't think so. Some people actually have judged these kind of cars before and can spot inaccuracies that most would not. I happen to believe your back-handed comments about other people's comments are a bit 4th grade-ish, but that' JMO. Your opinion may differ. And that's ok.
Jesus so many **** comments. Almost no car is 100% correct or perfectly restored, including my frame off 69 HO. Why pick the F_ing car apart, just to feel better about yourself? Ill bet most of you dont have one even half as nice. Rant over....
Chill man, we're all friends here, right?
Nothing wrong with a little constructive criticism on some details that should not have been overlooked on the restoration of a car of this caliber. This is potentially a $200,000 car. It also may call into question what other corners may have been cut.
edit: If this car is authentic, it is extremely rare and valuable. It's a serious injustice to the car and the hobby not to restore it correctly. Use the correct valve cover bolts, get your emblems on correctly, don't weld a tumor onto the cross member...
Any teenage motor-head (we're talking late 1970s here) that had ever looked under a modern Oldsmobile V8 rocker arm cover could identify the bolts that fastened the rocker arm covers to the cylinder heads. "There's extra bolts in that coffee can over there on the shelf in case you lost one." Apparently somebody lost twenty of those bolts while they had the rocker arm covers removed from a particular 1970 Oldsmobile 442.
The bolt and washer arrangement shown in the BaT photos is plain old clumsy. For some odd reason a paper sticker on the oil fill tube was a greater priority than keeping track of the original fasteners for the rocker arm covers.
Any teenage motor-head (we're talking late 1970s here) that had ever looked under a modern Oldsmobile V8 rocker arm cover could identify the bolts that fastened the rocker arm covers to the cylinder heads. "There's extra bolts in that coffee can over there on the shelf in case you lost one." Apparently somebody lost twenty of those bolts while they had the rocker arm covers removed from a particular 1970 Oldsmobile 442.
The bolt and washer arrangement shown in the BaT photos is plain old clumsy. For some odd reason a paper sticker on the oil fill tube was a greater priority than keeping track of the original fasteners for the rocker arm covers.
Preach it. I know people that punch the bolts into cardboard in a pattern so they go back in the correct hole from whence they came.
June 28th, 2024, 05:46 AM
Rant over....
