oldzy

Oh well. And here I would have let the parts go for $45.00 or so. I think I am just going to give all these extra parts away for free now, since they are just in the way on my desk. LOL.

In re to the spindle backing plates gaskets, I guess I can just mail a pair out for free. Donate $5.00 to a charity or something Why not check with a local dealership first though? They might have them in stock, only one around here did. Saves waiting a week+ for mailed out ones.

69442C

Allan, I'll jump back in on this since I saw this and had a minute to answer. The splines up by the head of the bolt do lock the bolt in place so the bolt will not turn. The reason why this is important relates to when the nut(s), that holds the control arm shaft in place, are loosened, such as what happens when the alignment is done and shims need to be added or removed. If the bolt were allowed to spin, the alignment tech would need to get a socket on the head of the bolt so he could back the nut off. The splines lock the bolt so the only thing that needs a wrench on it is the nut(s). Your alignement person will appreciate the correct bolts being there. I thought I saw someone say that these bolts were still available from GM and they gave a number for them. I'll need to go back and see if I can find that info.
Brian

oldzy

AMK has them, as well as ILT. Mine from ILT did not look like the below though IIRC. Will have to look again. I think it was a flat head, no recess like AMK's. AMK's are like the originals IIRC.

From AMK..

69442C

This was from a post on one of Rob's old threads back in 2009. MY442 posted this:

Bolts are still available from GM: part number 9421430

Check with your local GM dealer to see if this is still a good number.
Brian

oldzy

9421430 are control arm bolts for front lower and rear upper/lower.
* Rear lower 'frame side' bolts have a flanged head on the frame side (which I have never seen a repro) I just used washers.

381909 are front upper control arm/shaft bolts.

69442C

Thanks for catching that and for showing the correct number for the front upper bolts.

oldzy

FYI, I edited that post a bit. Actually, I might even be wrong on those flanged ctl arm bolts.

oldzy

One thing to note aboot the 381909's... when I put mine on, they would not go in all the way b/c of the splines. It was the powedercoating causing the prob though. Once I tightened the nuts, it seemed to pull them in nice n tight though. Otherwise, you have to BFH them into the frame (or remove the excess PC'ing) to make them secure before mounting the upper control arms... or just deal with the wiggly bolts when mounting the arms.

Allan R

Thanks oldzy. I'll send you a PM with my mailing address. I'll be more than happy to donate to Canadian Cancer Research (what my Dad died from). I'm going to have to wait more than a week for the control arm bolts, so your package will probably get here first.

AMK won't let me order unless it's 30.00 or more. So I bought them from Chuck at ILT. Total including shipping = 36.00 Should be here in about 10=12 days.....while I'm away on vacation . How do you take a vacation when you're on permanent vacation??

Brian, not a good number but according to Andy at my local Chev there are 6 of them at Les Auto in Gatineaux Quebec. They only want 18.00 EACH (not including the nuts) + HST + shipping. Hmmmm that would be $93.00?? That's just wrong on so many levels.

Allan R

I hate this stupid computer! Just ready to post and the durned thing went viral and dumped everything.

Anyway
The shock bolts were really easy to take off. Penetrating oil seems to work well.

Here's my problem. The shocks are too fat to come out the bottom of the LCA's. I don't know how they got in there in the first place. Any suggestions on how to get them out? Because I can't get the springs out with the shocks in the way.

I've lowered the LCAs all the way down so there shouldn't be much pressure left on the spring. Should I try undoing the LCA mounting bolts to see if that will let the spring drop out? I'm not an engineer so I don't know what forces are involved.

The upper Control Arm mounting bolt nuts are surprisingly easier to turn than I thought they would be. I'll try using Lady's technique of shaking them to loosen the spline on the bolt. Rob, did you run into any problems wedging the wood between the heat riser shield. That thing looks really thin and could bend?

Here's where I'm at:
Passenger side control arm bolt nuts on the way off. Pic for shims and position.


RS LCA fully extended. Fat shock stuck in spring.. How did it get in there in the first place???


Drivers side UCA mount. Pic for shims. Put an 11/16 on both nuts and they broke free right away!


DS Spring / shock problem....





As you can see, I'm pretty much up in the air. Not going anywhere soon

Lady72nRob71

When the shocks swell up like that, they are bad.

At this point the cross piece at the bottom of the shock can be removed and the threaded rod pulled back through the hole, raising the shock. At that point the spring can be carefully pried out of the bottom pocket, as there is not a lot of tension left. There is some and you will need to contain it when it pops. a pice of chain around the spring and around the back of the arm will work. NOTE the position of the coil end in the pocket first.

That one UCA bolt came off easy on my car, as it had bent when the front one broke.
Try tapping it sideways with a hammer.
To seat the splines, put some 1/2" nuts over the bolt and run on a 7/16" non-lock nut. Then remove all that and the bolts will be pressed in.

Hmmm.... The chassis needs some paint here and there now...
<DUCKING INTO THE BOMB SHELTER>

Allan R

Allan R

Today I solved a lot of my problems and got a LOT done.

As of today, All the front suspension is off the car. Here's how I solved my problems.

The 'fat shocks' were Monroe. They are actually still good I think because they have no leaking and the shock rod takes a fair bit of effort to collapse and extend it. Anyway, fat shocks apparently aren't totally round!! They have 2 flat sides so they can go into the LCA and come out the same way. So I lifted the spring a bit with the jack, realigned the shock to fit the LCA hole. Budda bing - out it came. Both sides done in about 5 minutes.

Then it was on to the springs. Took Robs advice and wrapped a chain around the spring coil and then around the LCA. Pushed down on the LCA with my foot and gave the spring a good tug. Ping! It came out like a lamb - both sides. Took about 10 minutes total. I was hyped! Measured the springs and both are sitting at 16 7/8" in height. Rob, what was the height of the new springs? I don't remember reading that in your thread.

Both LCAs were next. Needed a torque wrench to break the bolts free. Then it was simply a ratchet/wrenching time to get them off. The LCA bolts on the passenger side are trash! The ones on the DS are ok. But I'm going to replace them all.

UCA's were the next target. Got the 2 11/16 nuts pretty much all the way off then stopped. Pried the CA shaft toward the engine. Took out the shims as a 'package'. Taped them together and labeled them. Now to get the CA mounting bolts. Whacked them like the CSM says to. Pushed the UCA toward the engine as far as it would go and rocked it side to side/up and down. The bolts moved enough to know the shoulder splines were loose. Followed the CSM instructions for levering them out. Found that a 'rocking lever' worked really well. Note: make sure you leave the nut on the bolt because when it pops loose it sounds like a .22 going off and the nut gets driven back toward you with a lot of force! Both of them on the PS came off with minimum resistance. The bolts actually look like they're in good shape; but I have new ones on the way. I'll keep them as emergency spares.

You have to be a little more careful doing the DS CA mounting bolts because of the steering shaft. The forward nut and bolt is pretty easy. Put a block of wood beside the engine block. That give perfect leverage against the bolt without touching the steering shaft. The back nut it a little more tricky but it was easily solved. Leave the 11/16 socket on the nut. Place the wood against the block and lever against the socket. Works perfectly, again without touching the steering shaft.

So now I've got everything out and ready for cleanup. That was a good day's work.

Here's a shot of how the shock is made. 2 sides are flat to fit though the LCA. Monroe doesn't want idiots installing them, so stamped right into the bottom is "install this side down'. I had to laugh at that.


Here are the UCA and LCA bolts. The one that is all crudded and rusty came from the PS front. The other bolts look not too bad.


LCA bushings PS - not bad from this angle


Same LCA but from the other side - these bushings are toast. Plus the metal sleeve inside is starting to corrode


Both UCA bushings look like crap. This one is just a little worn don't you think?


Good call on replacing those Rob. Man I just hate when you know what you're talking about. Got long distance telepath ability? What am I thinking now? Wrong - it's related to the dark side. Continued on next post.

Allan R

Some more pics of today

Looks somewhat barren without the suspension. I'm having a hell of time deciding whether to pull the inner liners and go after the front frame for re-paint. Also need to clean up the steering shaft. The rag joint looks like it's seen better days too. Should be able to do that next year though.


See what I mean? It's practically begging for me to 'might as well' pull the liners. Hey! maybe I will. I wouldn't have to reinstall them till next year and that would also leave the UCA access really open for the alignment guy! It would also make it easier to access the engine mounts when this 350 comes out for rebuild....Hmmmm......Luke, use the force. Don't let the dark side play tricks on you. "Say what you old geezer? I'm gonna do the Rob thing and go to the Might as Well Nebula. They have cute paint cans there!"


DS CA's actually look not bad. I think I'll replace the rubber on the CA and frame too.


The steering will come out tommorrow. You can see how much oil and gunge there is on the bottom of the engine. Found a huge dent in the oil pan. I think my bro must have really hit something with the car. I have a 455 oil pan sitting on the side of the house. Will it fit a 350?


DS lots of cleanup ahead. That's the starter there all covered in grime. Ugggllly.


Well, I feel like it's time for a good poop and a beer! TTYL.......

66ninetyeightls

Looks great. Can't wait till I have enough space to do actual work!!! LOL

Allan R

It's not like I have a lot of space to work with Craig. 1/2 the garage is taken with spare parts and the rebuild storage. It's kind of like working in a large 1 bay garage right now. Still it's better than having to work outside! Probably this will be ongoing for awhile. Last week in Sept, me and the Mrs. are heading out for a week at Banff / Vancouver. I honestly don't expect the UCA bolts to be here before we leave. Once I get back, I'm hoping this will come together very quickly. With all new parts going in, there shouldn't be any problems. I hope to have all the clean up done, ball joints and Control arm bushings installed before we leave. Then it will be pretty clear sailing. The weather is starting to be a limiting factor. Might have to start painting stuff in the basement. My wife will love that .

This post is brought to you by the number 7 and the letters Q S and P.

Lady72nRob71

I had a feeling your bushings were shot. Glad I talked you into it!
Check the frame to make sure the bushing shells did not wear grooves in the frame.

I pulled my steery shaft to get those splined bolts off. My rag joint looked as bad as yours. However, since they cost 80 bucks, I cleaned mine up and repainted the metal. Looks like new - the rubber was perfect!
Strip the shaft and repaint black. Repack the U-joint with new grease if needed.

My HD springs are 15" and change. Compressing them will be fun at 450lbs!

I say do the frame. Best to do now while the suspension stuff is off. Pull the liners and clean them with oven cleaner. They need new flaps it looks.

Luckily, you can leave that nasty engine alone until you pull it next year or whenever.

The PS side bolts on the CAs usually rust more because the A/C drains on the frame on that side. Mine was like that.

BTW, look up behind the frame right behind the right front wheel - there is a piece of fuel line that is often forgotten. Mine is well cracked and deteriorated. Have to change it. It is the main fuel suction line.

I am jealous of your space - lots more room than I have!

Allan R

Well, onward and upwards. Lots of stuff to do today. A pleasant 70° on the way for today and tommorrow!

Can you please link me to the thread where you did the steering shaft?

Looks like 10 bolts/screws to undo for the inner liner. Hope the durned thing cooperates coming out. With nothing there, it should just fall out!

Oh yeah! My space is starting to become more limited because, unlike you, my wife wont let me store stuff in the living room, bedroom or kitchen! . Later my friend.

Lady72nRob71

Your springs sound normal. A STD Moog is 16.6" free height but has a higher spring rate of the stock spring, hence the reason yours is taller.

The springs have to be oriented right due to the way they are wound at the ends. Rotate them and the compression geometry changes.

CA nuts MUST face the rear. Torque them, never the bolt head.

10% more space in a photo? I looked at my work area photos and they look even smaller. If I gain 5 lbs I will not make it past the front of the car. Had I known this was gonna happen like this, i woulda pulled the whole front end!

Its a good time to pull the outer heater box and clean it out while the fenderwells are out. Check the blower motor, too!

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post301437
Paint it 20% semigloss black. I did mine wrong and repainted it later.

Nothings that easy. It will require some careful pushing and pulling and caressing, but after one side is out it will fall. I think I pulled the back side first.

Stash it in the trunk, attic or basement. Those fenderwells really get in the way.

Allan R

edit: just got in from the garage. Spring details now saved on file. Hadn't cleaned the LCA yet so I put the LS spring into the cup and matched it up exactly where the rust marks showed it had been sitting. Glad I didn't start cleaning these yesterday. BTW, the pattern of the sprng coils is symmetically opposed from one side to the other. So if you know one side, the other should be the same. (I'm assuming here)

Allan R

Nice pics of the rebuild, but just need clarification on the removal.
Step 1. Undo the locking clamp at the firewall area.
Step 2. Undo 2 bolt/nuts holding the rag joint?
Step 3. (this is where I'm not sure). Pull the intermediate shaft assembly off the steering spline?

Did you need to turn the steering to access the nuts and bolts?

Also, the SEAL. Was it ok or did you have to replace it? Looks like a new one in your pics. BTW I like how the link goes directly to the section I need. FWIW I think the steering shaft you did looks fine in silver. It wouldn't be 'technically correct', but it would sure accent the engine bay.

Lady72nRob71

Easy and 1, 2, 3!! For the most part you got it.
Undo the top clamp AND remove the bolt - it is keyed in the shaft.
Pull the top part down - it will slowly slide down and you can then remove it. Easy.
You might have to turn the wheel to access bolts. Easy with no tie rods!
My seal is original. Shocking, eh? I left it on the shaft the whole time.
I like black cause it hides oil and grease but shows dust. Silver hides dust but shows oil and grease.
Good time to rebuild your steery box and convert to 12:1!

"After reading about your BJ removal and install, I'm going to take the CAs to a local shop and have the work done if it's not to pricey."
Cheater...

Allan R

I understand what you mean, but I think I'll go with an 'argent' color just because I like the look. Besides, my car won't get grease or oil on it anymore....

What was that line that Tim Allen used on Al Borland all the time??? I don't think so Rob. At least not now. I have limited time left before winter, remember Obi Wan?? Besides, when the engine comes out there will be tons of room to work with there. Probably wont even need to jack the car with all the load off the springs. That's when I'll also do the rad, steering box and starter (great thread on that BTW)

Well you'll be pleased oh Dark Lord. I called 3 shops for quotes. The CHEAPEST was 280.00 so I'm gonna do it myself. Besides I was so looking forward to learning new Sith swear words..

Oh yeah, when I drilled out the UCA rivets, one of the drill cuts went a little deep on one hole only. Seeing as how it's on the bottom where the bolt goes up, I might need to put a solid washer there to distribute load. That, coupled with 3 other perfect ones should be ok I think.

Called for quotes on powder coating the springs and all 4 Control Arms - Came in at $460.00 + tax. Think I'll paint them instead.

Lady72nRob71

Wow - Canada money does not go very far, does it!
A shop here would do the bushings for 100 and powdercoat and blast the arms for maybe 200.
removing the bushings and ball joints is easiest.

66ninetyeightls

Holy crap Allan. Those prices are rediculous!!!

Allan R

You are sooo right. I think that the labor cost is what kills it for us up here. Most of the techs probably get paid more than those in the US. That's one theory. Shop rate quoted for pressing was 119.00/hr. (I think that includes paying for coffee and lunch too) So theory 2 is that the shop is just money hungry

And that's why I'm doing it myself. Just got back from partsource. Their 2 presses are out on loan right now. So I'll spend some time working on cleanup until I can get one.

Also going to use a pickle fork to break the pitman/center link connection because I'm scared to death of damaging the steering box. Rob had the same concern in his thread. Did you beat on it, or did you borrow a fork or puller?

Allan R

Well today I got my self professed engineering degree.

It's called thinking outside the CSM and being creative with non existent tools. I looked up the word 'Tool' and it started with: "A modernistic pop singer named Barry Manilow". It then went on to say it was any device that could do work or make work easier. (thinking back on my career, I supervised a bunch of tools!).

Then I looked up 'Work' and it started off with: "What you are supposed to be doing instead of looking up words in the dictionary". That was enough. Dumbass dictionary!

The upper control arms got a little more drilling than they should have to get the Ball Joint off. So I'm going to use 5/16 1" bolts instead of the ones that came with the package. I'll have to up the torque from 8 ft/lbs to about 20 I think. I'll add a good flat washer under the bolt head to increase strength. My old neighbor swung by and was surprised at what was going on. He said to go to pick n pull and just get a new set of upper CAs. He claims that the UCAs for all A & G body cars are the same. I'm not so sure he's right. Anyone????? Not like I want to go pull one right now anyway.

The UCA shaft nuts were being a royal PITA. I couldn't undo them for the love of trying. Not wanting to admit defeat or go to a service shop to have an impact tool do it (while waiting for an hour or 2) I came up with an 'engineering' solution. Reinstall them on the frame mounts and use the mount as a vice to hold the little buggers while I yard on them with a big *** torque wrench. Helps to presoak with penetrating oil too.

I'll do the c-washer and pound the bushings out tommorrow. Now that I've read all the little tricks from Rob & friends it shouldn't take too much time unless they are rusted in there good. I'll presoak them with more penetrating oil to help them along. Man I've almost used up a full can of that stuff so far.

Only got 1 LCA cleaned today. Holy turd of hurtles Batman! It takes forever to take that baked on undercoating off. I think I need a new set of wire wheels; and my Makita must be just about ready for new brushes. Lucky for me I don't have to really work for a living anymore.....

Lady72nRob71

I rented both tools, but 3 pecks on the pickle fork popped it off.

Mine were tight, too. I held the shaft in a big crecent wrench and got the nuts off with an electric impact wrench. It struggled but they were defeated.

Are you using a drill? That would be tough. I used an electric high speed angle grinder and a stiff cupped brush - used up the whole brush on all 4 arms. If you do not have a grinder, soak em in oven cleaner for 20 minutes, keeping them wet, then brush and hose off. Best chemical stripper I have used. And to think women should be allowed to use that in the house!!

Allan R

Yup, drill and sandpaper - it's pretty time consuming and dusty. I'll give one control arm a shot of Easy off and see what happens. I noticed you used it on the inside of your inner liners with good results. It works best on hot surfaces though so I'll have to leave the CA in the sun for awhile before I spray it. Maybe I'll try it on the deep area I can't get to on the one I just worked on. Also bought another 3.78 Litres of Zep Orange citrus based degreaser. I love that stuff.

BTW, my wife doesn't use oven cleaner. She leaves that to me since I know how to use it.

Allan R

Ok, yesterday I used 2 containers of "Easy Off" (O.C) oven cleaner on the springs and control arms. Followed your suggestion and let them soak. Wow! it really does strip crud fairly well. I still have to wire wheel the CA's though, with my drill and attachments.

Got the springs sanded down to bare metal - very time consuming and probably not really necessary - but I think the results will be very stunning. Painting today. Time to 'strip and sand"? about 4 hours all told.

UCA Problem
The UCA shaft is NOT like the one you have on Lady.

You can see there's no shoulder for the C washer to press on. I need to re-think this. Don't know if the Ball joint press kit has an adapter that will help press these out. Question: If I whack the side of the bushing with a drift to indent it, does this relieve a lot of the structural pressure that holds it in place? I've tried 'seating' the washer so it will catch some of the sloped shoulder of the shaft, but it keeps popping out because the impact force vectors are tangental, not in a straight line like you would get on the flat shoulder of your shaft.

My CA shaft looks like the one in oldzy's post:


Compare with:


Any ideas?

Allan R

Well, between yesterday and today more cleanup while waiting on parts. The coil springs turned out looking just like new!

The first spring is sanded. So I compared it with the one left to do. Then I decided it still needed some more sanding. The most time consuming part is doing the inside of the spring.


You can see where the silver spray from the paint job landed in 86. Where the spring was in the upper cup, it was really easy to sand. The lower mid section still had baked on undercoating. I found that using a flat scraper helped chip off the coating and reduce the amount of sandpaper needed. For this job I used 3 full sheets of 100, and 1/3 sheet of 150 to final smooth it.


Out to the shed, coat hangers at the ready. Spray can: Ready aim shoot. Because of the complex angles to paint, you have to do light coats, tack dry, change angles, repeat and so on. Again the tough part was getting the inside of the coil. But it turned out just amazing. If I didn't know these were just painted, I'd swear they were NIB.


When these go back into the LCA, I was thinking of using a teflon slider to slip them into the CA without scuffing the paint on the CA or spring.

Allan R

This was really bugging me. Couldn't watch another minute of football so I went out to the garage again. Inspiration! cut all that squished out rubber off. Guess what? There's a groove there the 5/8 C clip fits into. Tapped it into place and it's in there SOLID. BAZZINGA, we are in business pressing out those bushings!

Question: re new Ball joints. Did you guys press them in before you painted the control arms or after? Seems to me that doing the press in first would minimize any scuffing putting the new ones in? Just have to tape off carefully I guess.

oldzy

Shafts look somewhat similar... but see how yours has the big nuts on each end and the one I posted has a bolt on the ends? Bolt ones are older style arms/shaft IIRC.

I prefer the big nuts ones myself cuz they seem more manly. Did I just say that?

Allan R

Well you can bet my wife won't be lettin me play B Ball or hockey and shower with you now......

I didn't realize that the older style shafts used bolt ends. Did they change that because of bolt failure or premature wear? Or did it just make it harder to remove when doing bushings?

I plan on replacing the nuts with new anodized ones. They're available from most part stores. Partsource has them for around 1.25 each. If you really like those big nuts, I can ship you the ones I'm not using. OMG I just did an oldzy.

Lady72nRob71

Glad you did not give up looking for the grooves - they had to have been in there if they were a factory part or quality replacement part.
Even the CSM says you might have to pry the arm back some to reveal the grooves.
Springs look good. I could not picture myself sanding and painting them tho - so tedious!

Allan R

Well those upper CA bushings are being really stubborn. They just don't want to budge and I whacked them really good. I'll go get the ball joint press again and maybe that will take them out. The lower ball joints shouldn't be that hard to press out, I hope. Plan is to do all the bushings in one day. When the BJ and bushings are out, I'll finish cleaning those areas, then press in the new stuff. Mask off the new parts and shoot it with high gloss black rust paint. It's going to be nice the next few days - temps in the high 70's

The rest of my parts should be in sometime next week. YAAAYY!!! I can hardly wait to put more stuff in my already crowded work area.

Well, I figured an easier way to get some of the baked on paint/crud off the CA's. I took a cold chisel and scraped the flat surfaces using the edge (not the blade) and that stuff started flying like rocks from the General Lee's rear tires! In 15 minutes almost the entire CA was cleared of gunk.

Interesting Observations - Control Arms
1. Just like the spindles and steering arms these are marked L and R to designate which side they go on. (Look on the bottom of each one)
2. Reinstalling the springs appears to be idiot proof. If you look at the lower control arms, there is a stamped ridge that shows where the lower spring coil is supposed to stop. It's about 3" past the drain hole. You can't put the springs in wrong - unless you put them in upside down FLAT end up! I guess all those shots I took of where the springs were aren't all that necessary in light of this newfound knowledge.

Lady72nRob71

Make sure you are allowing enough space so the buching and the shaft will move and not hit the ground. My UCA bushings came out very easily.

Allan R

Actually, I put the UCA solidly into a vise and clamped it so the bushings were completely clear of anything. Then I whaled on the other end. I put my socket over the nut and beat the bejaysus out of it. Not even the tiniest movement. I think the bushing is being held additionally by the undercoating that was sprayed on its sides. Man I hate sloppiness like that. If I'd known back then I would have done a resto on this way sooner when stuff would come out easier. We'll see how the press works out.

Why does everything come out easier on Lady???

Lady72nRob71

Forget the vice - do it just like this on the concrete floor:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post291066

You need a solid support while you hammer.
Put a nut on the shaft and whack with baby sledge. Some WD40 around the bushing will help. Undercoat is disolved with oven cleaner. Remove it so the bushing will slide out easier.

Allan R

You are replacing your UCA shafts so it doesn't matter if they get damaged. I was going on the idea of re using the old shafts. Did not want to damage the threads on the end by beating on the nut. That happened with the castle nut on my idler, before I knew where to bash it. I'll try what you suggest. Worst case scenario is that I have to replace UCA shafts. They are kind of pricey though and were not on my 'buy' list.