Lady72nRob71

Mine were fine even after the whackings. Thread the nut on to where the top of the nut and top of the shaft are about flush.
This way you have the most threads in the nut. When you remove the nut, any damaged threads at the top (if any) will be straightened.
This is such a big shaft, you should be fine.

Make sure you hold the control arm so that it sits solidly on the pipe below during whacking. I used a fitting from the ball joint press.

69442C

Allan, let me give you another method for removing the UCA bushings and one that I have used many times over the years with great success. Now that I know you have a large vice and I see you just purchased a new tool set with an air chissel, you are all set. I always remove my UCA bushing with an air chissel and I get them out in just a few minutes. Clamp the UCA shaft in a vice, use the flat chissel in your air chissel and place the chissel behind the outside shoulder of the bushing. Work around the bushing so you are not concentrating the force all in one place. Sometimes I have used the chissel on the inner side to place a little flat depression or two on the metal to try to take a little pressure off of the press fit and this might be something you want to do. The chissel will be at a steep angle at times meaning you are putting tangental force (I used your phrase) but they will come out. Don't completely remove the bushing you are working on as you'll need the shaft to be supported while you get the other one loose. Once they are both almost off, you can finish popping them out. This was the method I learned when I worked in a repair shop many years ago while in high school. Still works the same today and I just did it again 3 years ago. The only minor concern I would have in your case is your chissel is brand new and very sharp so I hope it wouldn't cut the metal too quickly. If it did, you can always go back to the CSM method but I think you can make it work. And don't forget to use a little oil in those new air tools.
Brian

Allan R

thx Rob, hope I don't crack the floor of the garage with my hammer of THOR!

Hi Brian! Long time. Yes, I have to still oil them. Interesting you should say that. I was thinking the same. I saw Rob used that method to take out the oval and round bushings too! Went to You Tube and found a video that shows a guy using a drill to pop out the rubber and sleeve, then pound out the bushing case. Have a look and this and tell me what you think. ( I know its for diff CA bushings but the principle should be the same, right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPXf1OR9Lnk How did you know that I was dying to try out my new tools???

Oh, and the air ratchet will be used to undo all the bolts from the inner liners!! Yay for air tools. I think I'll time myself to undo a bolt the old fashioned way, then time the ratchet just for giggles.

Today is our anniversary - 19 years and going strong (not counting the year we lived together). Not sure how much I'll get done, but I think my Mrs is ok with playing on the car for awhile. She will never be a 'car girl', but she's so cute and she still puts up with me.

69442C

Allan, Happy Anniversary.

I haven't chimed in much as you and Rob seem to have things under control. But I'm still lurking in the shadows!!

I looked at the video and sure, give it a try. Did you hear him say it goes much faster (removing sleeve) with an air chissel? I did those same differential bushings too with the air chissel and they came out fine. But that was a slick little tip for removing the rubber inserts.

With respect to your air tools, I thought if you took the time to write a thread about them, then you must be itching to put them to use. Just like most of us do anytime we get a new tool. Too bad that one person wasn't impressed with your purchase. Like you, some of these tools I buy get used infrequently. Even if they are not the best quality, I probably won't wear them out. Hmm, come to think of it, that air chissel I have must be 30 years old and my air ratchet was bought, used, when I was 18 and it still works great and that was 35 years ago.

Allan R

I had to go back and really listen. It was at the end and so quiet I missed it until you pointed it out. Good ear! I'm going to give it a try and see how it works, then use my new air chisel because it's sure to work easier and probably faster!

Lady72nRob71

Yikes - I never had to hit 'em THAT hard!

I used my B&D 18V cordless impact wrench - zipped 'em right out.
No cord, no hose, no chance of being tangled up in the garage alone, left to die...
I love it....

Allan R

Zat so, Zippy my boy? Let's hope that's all you're 'zippy quick' with I thought you liked cordless because then it's easier to tell if you have a snake in the garage? Wouldn't want to be tangled up with one of them. Can see it now. Reacccchhhing for the air line. Ow! it bit me! That rattling sound isn't a ratchet moving by itself.....That's one thing I can't stand - snakes. "Indy, why is the floor moving?" Remember that from TOD?

We wouldn't leave you in the garage to die. I've ordered you one of those medic alert thingys that monitors for 'help, I've fallen and can't get up'. It's being reprogrammed before shipping so the message is: "Crap, I'm tied up in the garage again and can't get loose" Should be there when you get your garage equipped with air lines

Besides, air tools sound cooler than electric! Makes the neighbors think you're running a dentist office in the garage. Just need some piercing shrieks and screams periodically....

You guys make my days so much brighter. Makes me smile a lot. Makes the neighbors wonder what I'm smiling about. Hee hee, drives them crazy!!!

Allan R

Well, I got the ball joint press and pickle forks today. First order of business was to press out those lower ball joints. I think it would have gone faster if I had read the instructions. I started out by pressing them tighter then realized my mistake. With the proper setup this time, they popped loose right away. 2 minutes per side. Most of that was setting up the press.

Then it was off to the UCA bushings. Took one of the deep tubes from the press kit and used it as backing to whale on the CA shaft. Pop! out it came. Used the press and the other bushing came out. Put up a bit of a fight though. When it let go, it really snaps! The other UCA shaft was so stubborn, I've seen rotten kids that were easier to get along with! I busted the 'C' washer. Had to make a new one - good thing I bought 2. After another 7=10 whacks it gave up and came out. The biggest issue was they were coated with that dried undercoat and didn't want to press off. I AM BORG, RESISTANCE IS FUTILE In short order they were assimilated!!!

Now for the lower CA bushings. They were a beeatch to get out. Tried chiseling the side to release pressure. Not much luck. Used the press and I mean USED the press. My torque stick was at max. When these let go, it was like a small explosion! Scared the crap out of me. So now I have one CA done.

On to the second one. The rear (oval) bushing put up such a fight. I ended up inverting a smaller press unit and overpressed it. It buckled the bushing case and bent the CA pretty bad. I don't know if it's ruined or if I can get it straightened somewhere. The front bushing was so badly stuck it actually expoded the press. Everything went flying! So I decided not to push my luck. I saturated it with penetrating oil and left the sucker in the garage. Maybe with luck tommorrow morning.

As you can see there were some really huge forces at work here. I'm hoping that it will press back. Maybe take it to the body shop and see if they can whack it. Its in just such an awkward spot that I can't pin it in the vise and try to flatten it. How much will this affect the bushing? What you can't see in this shot is that the profile of the hole is ok. I'm thinking that since the bushing seats on the hole that is not damaged, there is very little holding power needed on the damaged side anyway. Is this just wishful thinking?



Here are the bushings that came out. The UCA's were in pretty horrible shape compared to a new one. Interesting, NAPA gave me 4 sets of them, I only needed 2. Guess I'm getting a 30.00 refund. The oval bushing with the shiny spot? I had to file it down just to get rid of the bulge that was holding it. The other front bushing that's not in the picture is the one I still have to get out in the morning.

Lady72nRob71

Told you so!

Told you so!

I tapped those out with a hammer with the other side supported on the pipe fitting.

Use a wide cold chisel and a baby sledge on the side with the arm ont he ground. Give hard, solid pounds. If I can collapse 'em, you should be able to...


Repeat that and get a video - sounded interesting!

Cold chisel, my good man...
Do just like this - they popped right out.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post290210




The bends you put in your arm might be able to be straightened... Set the bent side on a vice or anvil on the ground and use a BIG drift punch and a 5lb hammer - it might work.................

Allan R

Sorry Rob, can't hear you (told you so) have to speak up. Nah nah nah nah na na Yes it worked. You should have been here to experience the one C clip take on a new form before it destroyed itself......

Who are you kidding? That was as close to a bomb going off as I want to be... I was too busy ducking for cover to get the video
Anyway, I'm going to try again today. If I don't post anything by tonight you know the garage was destroyed in the explosion and I'm either decapitated or in the hospital. You should have caught that red eye special to enjoy all these unique experiences first hand

HAH! You haven't met my car or talked to it, have you? What you couldn't see in the photos I posted yesterday was the cold chisel marks on the other side of the bushings. I bent them in good - almost to the point where they were ready to split. There was lots of separation on the bent part, but they wouldn't come out with a hammer. Believe me, I tried.

I'll have to borrow one from my neighbor. The shape of the oval still looks right. There is just a tiny burr on one side that I should be able to file flat from the inside. It's the big dent side I'm worried about. When I looked at the dry fit of a new bushing, it looks like the press fitment of the bushing is held by the undamaged side. The damaged side looks to be mostly a seat for the bushing to ride in. I know it does provide some holding power, but doesn't appear to be a lot. Does this make sense to you?

Lady72nRob71

I almost ruined mine. I made it with a cheap grade 2 washer. If I used a grade 8, I bet it would have done better.

Wish i could have been there... But not near as much as when my scantily clad, big chested neighbor lady did a midnight table dance in her garage while screaming when suddenly confronted with a hissing possum.... I would have PAID to see that one!!!

Must have been SUPER rusty... Collapsing the raised part at the front of the bushing is the key.

I know what you mean. The front side does most of the holding. The back does onlysome. One good thing is that the oval shape prevents any internal twisting, so even if that side is not as tight as it should, it should be fine as long as arm-bushing shell contact is made all around.
Try to straighten it. If you cannot, I think you will be okay anyway. You will know how tight it is when you press the new bushing in (easier than removal)...

Allan R

Yes they were, and no it's not. Brute force is the answer in this case

Well Orly, that there bushing was just plumb more stubborn than 2 jackasses hooked up to a delivery wagon.

I soaked the durned thing overnight in penetrating oil. So I also cold chiseled the collar and sides to help it release. When I tried to press it out, it just didn't want to budge. I cranked up the torque/pressure. Nothing. I started to worry that I was going to need a new control arm. Started to back off the worm screw and the bushing 'sploded'. Actually it moved about 3/16 and was stuck again. Even the hammer of THOR and a drift didn't phase it. In fact, the bushing started laughing at me. I lost it. Took a socket a little smaller than the bushing and used it in the press to max the leverage. Well in the same time it would have taken Smokey and the Bandit to make a beer run to Texarcana, the bushing starting to move. Then it let loose like it had been fired from a howitzer! The bushing holes were in perfect shape, just a little rusty. But now I have all my CA parts apart.

Went to NAPA and bought some POR prep and ready, and 2 cans of NAPA cast. They didn't have any POR black shiny or satin in stock. But they did have DOM16. It's apparently the same with a different brand, and a different price. A pint of POR15 costs 30.00 up here. The DOM16 is 18.00 That's comparing 1 pint tins. So I bought a pint. Still have some POR 15 in the garage, but I'll only use it if I need it. Don't know how these two will 'mix' so I have to try a test area - some of the 455 parts I have laying around will do....

Anyway, I decided to redo all the caliper, steering arms, steering knuckles and the control arm shafts. They all look like they were just die cast now. What a great paint! Then I started with painting my control arms. Nothing fancy for them, just a coat of tremco rust paint. Here's how things worked out

I wire wheeled the CA shaft and the threads. Then I sanded down the metal body, taped off the thread and bushing area and shot them with Cast. I noticed that the shafts are stamped C. One has both B and C on it. If you look closely the bevel leaving the flat areas are slightly different too. Puzzled. Anyone?


Here are the parts that I had originally done in silver. Sorry the flash takes away some of the details. Have to find some of that green to put back on the spindles to make it 'authentic factory'


Not a very good shot, but you get the idea. Tommorrow when it's nice out, I'm going to put them in the sun to bake. Should be around 75° or better for the next couple of days.


Bet you don't know what that black plastic thing is just behind the old white plastic chairs....

Allan R

So today was fun - got to try out my new air tools taking the fender liners out of the car. Makes short work of getting those 1/2" bolts loose.

Inner fender liner - Right side

To remove, just undo all the 1/2" bolts holding the fender liner in. If your car still has the charcoal filter and mounting bracket, you'll have to remove at least the rear bolt holding it, and loosen off the front one (remove filter first - duh) and swivel it out of the way. That makes it really easy to get to the outer bolts holding the liner. Once it's got all the bolts out, lable and bag them so they don't get lost.

Start by prying out the rear fender well from inside the fender lip. A large flatblade works well. Once the fender liner has been freed of the fender, it's really easy to drop out from the back, then wiggle it to get the front out. I got a nasty surprise when I took out my r.s. liner


Inner fender liner - Left side

This is a little more complicated. Before touching the liner bolts, remove the battery, and the battery tray so you have access to the fender liner bolts. An engineer designed the battery tray securement. It's fastened with nuts and bolts, making it necessary to have 2 people unless you have extraordinarily long arms. Nuts on the bottom and bolts through the battery tray. Once that's out of there you'll have a real mess to clean up under it too. See:


Now take a small pair of needle nose pliers and compress the plastic tabs that hold the battery/ww lines to the front. There are 4 connectors that have to be undone. If you're replacing them, yeah just cut them with snips. Repeat the process for removing the liner as stated in the right side. Getting it out is only about a minute. Getting it prepped to come out is about 10.

Now you have virtually unlimited room to work on the frame, or replace your heater motor (that's another retarded design engineering marvel ) locating it where it's almost impossible to work on.

Back to the nasty surprise
When the r/s inner liner came out, so did 1 of the mounting tabs. The plastic was quite brittle. Then I found that when Ken worked on the car restoring the body, he damaged the inner liner even more. 2 more mounting tabs were broken off, and the bottom of the liner was melted - another place where there should have been a fastener....I was NOT happy . Going to see if John M can help me out with a replacement.



So now, it's Saturday. Leaving for a week so my project is on hold. Need to get a new liner. Dang!!! Not buying new ones for 395.00

Naturally I'll replace the rubber flaps. Anyone know who has the plastic snap in holders?


As you can see - there's now tons of room to get to the areas I want to clean up. And, the steering shaft is much easier to get to for removal. I'm still toying with taking out the PS pump/gear now instead of later.


One thing I was not expecting! When the fender liners came out, the fender appears to have popped out about 1/4" in the middle. (follow the stripe line and you can see it) Bugger! Don't know if this will go back into shape when the liners go back in or not. Anyone got experience with this? BTW - notice the floor is clean!!!

Lady72nRob71

Geez, where have I seen all this before?? Flashbacks to June it seems.....

The steery box comes out easier without the liners - same with the steering shaft. Pump comes off easier, too.
What plactic snap-in holders? I reused all mine.
Unless you had pulled hard on the metal fenders at any time, the liners have nothing to do with the fender shape.
Did you ever pull the bottom lower fender out to replace the fan motor? That would do it.

The lid is now off the can of worms and they are hauling A$$ everywhere!!

Allan R

I can re use my snap in holders too, just thought about replacing them, since I appear to be on a roll
I didn't pull hard on the metal fenders at any time, which is why I'm so bugged about the line up now. Why would the fender line up at the top and bottom, but not the middle??? You mean to say this didn't happen to Lady??? Course not, if she bulged like that you'd never get around her in your garage

FWIW, with the weight of the car supported on the jacks instead of the wheels, my front bumper has cracked the stone shield and is not lining up properly anymore. Fortunately I have a spare stone shield. I will get the 442 grills in it before I take it for painting. While it's in paint, I might as well get the rear deck wing painted at the same time..

I am going to take the front bumper off when I get back from vac and see what happens.

Steering box/pump. I'll go back and look at your thread. I might just have it rebuilt to original specs instead of upgrading.

I stashed my old steering linkages behind the shed. They looked sad. Opened the new parts boxes to compare. ALL the new parts look like they're made stronger than the OEM stuff! As long as it bolts up ok, which seems likely, I'm a happy camper. The ball joints on the center link came already greased!

Couldn't get the caliper piston back into the bowl today. Did all the right stuff: lubed the square cut seal liberally with brake fluid, lubed the piston with brake fluid. Lined up the piston square with the bowl. Used an old brake shoe and C clamp to push it down. Need a bigger clamp. That piston is a ba$tard to get compressed past the square seal. When I get back, I'll see if partsource has a disc brake piston compressor.

One good thing about vacation: I'll spend less than what I've been spending on parts lately.
One bad thing about vacation: Right now I think I would rather be working on the Olds since the weather is still decent.

Damn worms!!! Get back in the can!!! I keep hearing voices that I have no control over......Looks like this car won't be done before the snow flies, and I'm not working on plastic parts in the cold. Too much chance of breaking...John M has some rs inner liners and is sending me pics to choose which one I want. What a guy! Everytime I need something, he has it.

See you in a week.

Lady72nRob71

No, did not notice any fender bulging. I think it is coincidental you noticed.
Interesting about your stone shield... Mine was cracked already and hadnt noticed any other misalignments....
I think you will like the quick ratio upgrade - not too much more dough...

Have a good vacation!
I think I know which of us will be on the road first!!!

Allan R

John M suggested having a look a the rear fender braces to see whether that might be the issue. Just have to find them first. I didn't know there were lower fender braces by the cowl area... wonder if they got left off?? I'll know later today. FWIW I went back to my 2008 appraisal pics and the fenders were lined up perfectly, so something definitely happened with the inner liner removal. John's also getting me a replacement RS inner liner, but most of his are faded from sun. Is there a plastic prep/paint that will pop them back to new looking?

When I got back from vac, I went to the garage right away to let my baby know I was home. She was in agony with that bumper/stone shield problem. So I eased her pain by pulling forward on the center bumper tongue and the stone sheild popped back into place nicely and the open cracks 'disappeared'. They're still there, but will be an easy fix with some plastic weld on the back. Still I think the front bumper must have been installed wrong to create a downward force on the stoneshield when the car is raised. Far as I know, the bumper should move with the frame and stay in the same place (like the fenders). Something has to be wrong there too. So when my son gets home, I'll get him to help me take off the front bumper. I have a feeling the mounting bracket was not positioned properly or torqued too low. S/B 80 ft.lbs. The alignment of the front bumper to the filler panels and shield also looks kind of wonky. Any suggestions would be helpful. I looked this up in the CSM but there's not a lot of help there.

This looks just wrong doesn't it? There's a LOT of droop just to left and right of center - I'm guessing the mounting bracket and braces were installed too low. Also note the r.s. grill looks like it's not seated properly in the stone shield.



Quite a gap out to the front too. With the flash you can't see the damage to the front SS tongue or the cracks. Note uneven gap left to right..


Side profile gives a good indication for part of the alignment issue



As you know, cost of rebuild up here is $$$$$.$$$$.$$$$ I think it's a shame. There's rebuilt OEMs available from San Diego area for around 150.00 plus shipping - seems pretty reasonable.

Anyway couple of Q.s
1. Was there a problem with your PS pump and gearbox? Mine isn't leaking, it just looks like crap after 39 years of weathering and crud. New PS hoses I can get for a decent price locally. Oh, BTW since I'm taking out the steering shaft, I'll also be installing a new 'tilt' column as part of this nighmarish 'might as well' job. Just have to figure out how to run the cruise control wire down through the bowl without screwing up the column...I know there's info somewhere on how to do it. I also have to changeout the key lock cylinder from the OEM to the new column too.. Oh yay! more $hit to play with!!

2. What did you pay for the upgrade to quick ratio? My steering is 3.5 turns lock to lock. What does quick ratio change?

It's getting pretty cool here - only about 37° in the morning and warming to around 64 in the late afternoon. Don't know how much longer the garage will be warm enough to work....its always about 8 or 9 degrees cooler in there. Great for summer, but it sucks right now.

69442C

Allan, I think you should hold off on making any adjustments to your fender, bumper or stone shield until you get the suspension finished. You should only make adjustments to body panels and bumpers with the weight of the car on the suspension. When you put jack stands under the frame and in the area of the cowl, the front of the frame will sag downward with the weight of the engine making body panel alignment look out of place. When the frame sags down, the radiator support goes with it as does the forward mounting bolts for the fenders. That can cause the fender to bulge back by the door. The inner fender liner may have been helping to hold it in place a little but the fender may return to normal once the frame goes back to it's normal position. This is one case when it's best to do nothing right now or you may open up a real can of worms.
Brian

Allan R

Hey Brian! Glad you're still lurking....

This was exactly what I was trying to find out earlier in this thread. For some reason, Rob had no movement on Lady, so it just seemed strange to me that I'd have these issues. Maybe the location of the jack stands has something to do with it. You are right on the money, mine are located exactly at the lift points under the cowl that the CSM says to use. I didn't think the frame would flex that much, but it just makes sense now.

I do plan to take off the front bumper though, because I need really good access to the stone shield mounting bolts. I'm going to have to remove it anyway to do the plastic repairs and have it painted. I would really like to re-use the OEM SS to mount the 442 grills if possible. If not I'll use the replacement I bought a few years back. That will also give me good access to the horns and rad support for any needed cleaning. Also, the rad will be coming out for a hot tank & clean up. Then I can install my new HD water pump/fan/clutch/shroud. Once that lower air dam came out, it was more clear where the lower part of the shroud mounts.

As far as the other issue with the fenders, I'll wait till the car is resting on the suspension before anything else is 'aligned'. That includes waiting till it's down to install the inner liners too. Now I'm wondering if the bumper might have been put on when the car was up on a hoist?? That might account for the fact it was slightly out of alignment in the left center for a looooonnnng time. Just didn't have the ambition to do anything about it at the time.

The new air tools make short work of a lot of little jobs, glad I bought them. FWIW the ratchet locked up one evening. 20 minutes later I was holding a new one in my hand; CT was good as gold with their warrantly. I'm sure it was an isolated case...

Lady72nRob71

I had my original pump and gearbox rebuild by this place:
http://www.powersteering.com/products.htm
Most popular steering rebuillder I have seen so far.
Great service and exceptionally nice to talk to (Chip).
Prices are listed there.

I would recommend him before getting some "remanufaktured in Elbonasia" product from the locals stores or flea-bay.

I had no issues with the originals, other than they had 155K miles on em and steering felt 'loose'.
I did it because they had to come off anyway for the engine repaint. They were dirty, too.
Actully the fluid was very dirty from being run on red dirt roads so much. Chip said it really showed its mileage...
Getting my original parts back guaranteed they would FIT again and would offer no surprise metric threads, no shaft keyway or something dumb like that. They fit perfectly.
If yours are working and not leaking, you can decide their fate later when you do the motor.

I think the cruise wiring routes the same as the non-tilt column. If not, the manual will show how.
They go in easily into a non-tilter, even with only the steery wheel removed. See my "120 on cruise control" thread for details.

As for your bumpers, do the radiator support bushings look okay? If loose or something is rusted through i could see the bumper falling below the plastics. Bumper brackets should be right to the frame horns.

Allan R

Funny you should recommend them. That is the site I was doing some research on last night... so 335 + shipping and handling - that''s for a stock rebuild. How much more was it for quick ratio??

Understood. What I was looking at is this: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/120665184724?...84.m1438.l2649 It claims to be a reman GM Saginaw unit, so it should bolt in exactly the same.

Looking at the CSM makes the tilt column somewhat intimidating to take apart for key cylinder install and CC wire installation. I can find no instruction anywhere about CC wire running in section 9 or 15 for routing wire through the column. I looked at your thread 120 on CC. I do not think your method will work on a tilt column because of the difference in the cover, housing and bowl. Just went and took the top retainer off the new tilt column and shone a light through all exterior areas. No clearances there at all. It looks like the whole top of the steering bowl/cover has to come out c/w the locking plates and cam cancel etc.. Yuch!

Rad support is really solid - no rust. I think it's what Brian said. It might also be that the bumper/bracket nuts weren't torqued to 80 ft/lbs as required, or the braces were not adjusted for the right mounting points.

Lady72nRob71

Here is from their site...
Pricing (plus shipping & handling):
$339 12.7:1 Fast Ratio w/standard detailing
Power steering rebuild gear boxes only starting at $225 w/standard detailing
$40 Extreme detailing - gearboxes

Power steering pumps starting $129 w/standard detailing
$10 Extreme detailing - power steering pumps

So 339 is WITH the fast ratio conversion. 225 for rebuild of the stock ratio.

I splurged and went all the way - extreme detail on pump and gearbox.
Might as well start fresh with a like-new steering system!

Well it should bolt up, but the internal stops might be different (depending on car) or who knows what parts they use in the rebuild process and who knows how well it was put together. I hear sweatshops are poorly lit and dirty...
Hard to believe all of those cars they listed used the same stops, but maybe they do.
After what I heard about the reman ACDelco stuff, I wonder a lot about this other mass reman stuff (like the one-year reman water pumps that routinely live 1 year, 1 month...)

69442C

Still lurking when I can... just really busy with work, a lot of house projects and still working on a 69 442 conv.

The reason Rob may not have noticed the movement you did is because his car is a convertible and convertible frames have boxed frame rails in the center of the frame. As a result, his frame is more rigid. One way to give yours a quick "look and see" is to place a floor jack under the front center crossmember and jack the car at that point until you just start to take the weight off the jackstands. Take a look at your algnment issues now and see if things have changed. But whatever you find, don't play with any alignment issues until the weight of the car is on the suspension.

Brian

Lady72nRob71

I thought only the center underbody frame rails were boxed and heavier. If the stands were placed just behind the front wheels, I figure the droop amount would theoretically be the same as with a std frame...

Allan R

Ding ding ding ding!!! We have a winner My Gawd but how do you know all this? Yes, there is a bit of realignment that happens when I did that. Enough to be happy at this point in time. Didn't put full weight on the jack, just enough to see if it works....

Hey Rob, yours must be stiffer than mine. The extra boxing is probably the key. I suspect there is some torsional stiffness transfered and supported by the boxed area of your frame. Likely the front part of the frame is the same though.

69442C

Yes, the center rails are the only difference and it's only because they are boxed. But the droop of the front stub is not the only part of the frame to move when stands are placed under the cowl area. The center rails will also arc a little behind the jack stands. So with the boxed center rails of a convertible, the arc in those rails in minimized hence less droop in the front. Even with the roof on a coupe to help stiffen the body, things still move.

I had the good fortune many years ago to pay my way through college by working at an auto body shop. The people there were really good about teaching me things even though they knew it wasn't going to be my career. But it sure was my hobby and still is. This was in the late 70's so I worked on quite a few of the cars that we now restore. I've straightened a few frames in my days too. Most of the frames I've worked on were late 60's early 70's GM A bodies.

Allan R

Well today was GREAT!! A balmy 50° and 30 mph winds all day long. I almost told my neighbor to go fly a kite...

Got my LCA back from the shop. They straightened it out but used heat to make it easier to reform the metal. I was a lot upset. Then they told me that they didn't use a LOT of heat, because they know how heat can affect a CA steel. So I calmed down and paid the man. Actually it looks really good and the area affected is very small.

So, more cleaning and prepping today. The LCA's were finish sanded and sprayed down with POR metal prep. Followed the instructions to a T. I was waiting for the 'phosphate' coating to materialize. Duhhhh, it doesn't do that until after it's soaked in for 20 minutes, thoroughly rinsed and then air dried. While I was at it, I also did the battery tray. Didn't realize how heavy those things are.

Next it was on to the upper CA's. In went the ball joints, and I'm now ready to press in the bushings for the upper shaft. It looks so clean and purty I can't hardly recognize it from the one that came out

Hey, I'm on a roll. Got all the wheel bearings and greasy parts together and gave them a good bath in varsol. They cleaned up really nice. Now for the repack and install. When I was cleaning up the dust caps I noticed something I've never seen before, there's a spring 'dooey' in the cap and it locks in! WTH?? I've never seen this before. Anyone know what it does?

Well it was about 5:00 and all my neighbors came over to talk. Not all at once, just one at a time. Needless to say, I didn't get a lot more done....

The upper ball joints are soooo easy. Why isn't everything like this??? When I drilled out the rivets, I got a little overzealous on a couple of them and took out a little more steel than I should have. So I put both washers on the lower side of the ball joint to help firm it up. Can't believe that only 8 ft/lbs is all it needs. This was just before torquing the nuts....


So this is what phosphate coating looks like. Sort of a milky white residue on the metal. Tommorrow both control arms and the battery tray gets a coating of POR15.


This had a fair bit of pitting. I thought about filling it with some glazing putty, but then nahhh it's going to be hidden by a battery. So it also will just get POR15


See that spring looking dooey to the bottom right with the star clips? One of them is totally crushed. It goes in the dust cap. What is it and what does it do??


John MacNeill (2blu442) gave me this as a present, since not too many people actually want them anymore. It's the lower license plate bracket for the front bumper. When I got it, it looked like it had come from a salvaged wreck off the coast of Florida - lots of pitting and rust. I wire wheeled it as clean as possible, used 2 apps of glazing putty to fill in the pits, 2 coats of sandable build primer and 2 coats of black engine enamel. Feels smooth and looks great!

oldzy

Here is my complete invoice from Chip Woyner @ powersteering.com...

$325.00 Fast-ratio conversion 12:1 ratio (I guess price went up a bit)
$40.00 Extreme detailing

$129.00 Rebuild customer's PS pump
$25.00 Reservoir, and cap
$10.00 Extreme detailing

$69.95 Flex coupler, NEW GM

$0.00 Labor, remove and replace pitman arm
$52.38 Shipping and Insurance
$0.00 Out-of-state sale, exempt from sales tax 0.00%

Lady72nRob71

Good progress so far!
I remember that metal-ready stuff - GOTTA keep it wet for 20 min at least.
I like to use a brush on it while rinsing to get the excess phospate stuff off. Too much will affect paint adhesion.

Not sure what the spring star things are fore - i did not have them.

Nice score on the plate bracket. I was dumb enough to buy a repro for 30 bucks LONG ago. A year after, I realized I had no holes int he bumper and tossed the thing into the junk box. The holes probably wouldn't have lined up anyway being a repro.

I paid an extra 10 bucks for a "not as dented" reservoir for my pump.
Luckily my flex joint was great - just needed cleaning.

frankr442

I think the spring star things had something to do with static electricity.

Allan R

Thx Rob,
I'm really happy with the bracket! It's not perfect but it's a darned sight better than when I started. It has plenty of metal left and the way it is stamped there are reinforcing 'recurves' that hold it pretty solidly. I checked my bumper before I even started working on this. The holes are there and properly threaded. This baby is a direct line up and bolt in. When I'm done I think I will put the dealer showroom plate on there as a permanent fixture. If I'm using the car on the road, I'll put a layer of cling wrap over it to keep the bugs off. Ah yes, cling wrap - a chubbo's guide to weight loss

Seriously?? How? That whole area is grounded through the chassis and packed with non conductive grease, and further grounded through the wheel/tire.
I'm not making fun of your post, I just don't understand how it would affect static electricity.

frankr442

It grounds the rotating hub to the stationary spindle. I'm at work and all my manuals are home, but I think it was mostly for radio interference. I know the bearings are metal too, but I think that's what they're for.

Allan R

I do have a radio static suppressor resistor in the car. Maybe I don't need to re-install those star thingy's, besides which - one is trashed completely. I bought a new set of dust caps from NAPA and they don't come with these spring things. I've just never seen them before.....much less looked for them.

You work on Sat? What kind of work do you do? You're one of the fortunate ones that has a job - hope it's a good one and a permanent one. I'm luckier than most. My day is always a vacation one! Gotta love retirement...My biggest concern is the economy and whether it'll tank. That would not be good for my investments. Fortunately I don't have a mortgage.

frankr442

I work in a small (2 man) Chevy dealer parts department. Work every other Sat till 2:00 then get Mon off. Check out the forum between mechanics and phone calls. (Is that the boss coming? - False alarm) Hey, it's 2:00! I'm gone!

Lady72nRob71

Grounding seems to be the best use of those star things.
You have to remember that even bird farts will cause static in AM radio, which was the common thing to have back then.
Sure the bearings are metal, but rolling on a thin sheet of grease made for less than ideal electrical contact.
I do not have them and the car rolls just fine!

Allan R

Gee, I understand that if you install them wrong they will act like a loaded flywheel on a toy car and rip the axle right off it by creating automatic inertia equal to twice the force of forward momentum, but in reverse! Kind of like throwing your car in reverse while moving forward. If you install them the right way, they allow the car to roll nicely. That's why you don't see them in cars anymore . Kind of like Cliff Klavens Buffalo theory???

Cars without this highly desired option must not be driven faster than 120 mph. I think I'll start manufacturing these and sell them for 856.78 each!!! FWIW I asked John to have a look and see if he has these on any of his parts cars. If he does, well I'll take some.

Did any of you have a look at the reinforcement piece that attaches to the air dam? Do any of you have it?

Lady72nRob71

Part number 410410.
Look in the assy manual section 11 page 104.
It is used with 455 engines and 4 speed SM trannies.
Not sure on it's exact purpose....


Geez. Now I need to get some spring spiral star thingies so nothing BAD happens....

Allan R

Yup, I had the part number already from the 72 AM. That's where I found it when I was doing a part search for something else on the front end. What struck me as unusual was every Cutlass I'd seen has the attachment points on the air dam, but no reinforcement part. I asked John to have a look and LMK if he has one. Where did you find that it was used with 455/4speeds, or did I miss something in the AM? I see the same thing in the 71 AM, but not in the 1970

FWIW when I was under the car today I checked the frame to bumper bracing and found that the ps center brace (tubular) has been slightly bent downwards. This means that it is actually forcing the bumper out of alignment and probably putting torsional stress on it. I'm going to take the brace off for now. Asked John to see if he has some good straight ones and ship it up with the new inner liner and star thingys.

Lady72nRob71

AM has a note under that reinforcement piece that says:
For 35L77 & L75 with 35M20

I need to hit the sack...

Allan R

Thx Rob, somehow I missed that link to the part. In the 71 AM it says 4400 only, so now it makes sense. I'll ask one of the parts guys...

Just waiting for the sun to come out and warm things up. It's still only 41° outside right now with a high projected of 61°. In our neck of the woods that's considered to be a heatwave at this time of the year.