Allan R

I'm just doing my front brakes on my 72 Cutlass S. Managed to get the caliper, rotor etc off the car. Right now I'm going to rebuild the caliper because I think the piston was sticking. The pads were 65-70% worn, the front spindle in good shape, bearing was starting to get to the dry side. Clean and repack tommorrow.

With all the front off, the backing plate is in excellent condition - no pitting or rust or anything but gunk build up. I want to take it off, clean it, paint it and put it back on. There are 3 bolts that hold it on.
Question: These bolts look like the go into/through the pitman arm. How do I safely take the backing plate off without screwing with the steering/suspension?

I had to heat the bleeder to get it out - I'll replace it because it's seized. The piston front seal is giving me a royal pain not wanting to come out. Any tips?

Sorry I don't have pics, I just got in from a couple hours of frustration and cleaning.

Lady72nRob71

Take the 3 bolts off.

The arm that holds the tie rod end will come off.
The clearances are pretty tight, so i doubt you would throw the alignment off by disassembly and reassy.
Those things are on there super tight so impact tools may be needed. Try to turn the two nuts, as those two bolts could be rusted in the spindle. Some hammer raps on the nuts might be needed to separate them.

The caliper mounts come off as well, so you can clean them up and paint them also (sans the caliper sliding surfaces.)

Reassemble and torque to spec (which is high.)

Allan R

Thanks for getting back so quick Rob,

I already took one nut off, but didn't know whether the suspension spring needed to be supported, and I didn't want to kill myself. It actually came off fairly easy with a 2 foot torque wrench and 11/16 box wrench. So what you're saying is that I can safely take all 3 bolts off without anything springing out of place? For now I put the nut back on the bolt and tightened it down. BTW, with wire wheeling and light sanding, the backing plate looks like almost new. I'm going to paint it with silver caliper paint.

I clamped the brake hose when I took off the caliper - have a new one ready to go on. I think I'll have to torch the hose connection to break it loose based on the bleeder valve on the caliper. The bleeder was seized and wouldn't open. The only way to get it out of the caliper was to torch it. It gave a mighty struggle to stay in, but it's toast. I guess I'll be going to the parts store in the morning for 4 new bleeders and a new set of pads.

Any tips on getting the caliper piston seal out? CSM says to pry it out with a screwdriver. Rotsa Ruck doing that, it's pretty much not in the mood to be pried. Once the cleanup is done I expect the rebuild to take a reasonably short time. OMG, this is just the PS. Still have to do the DS. Rotor looks like its ok, just need to lightly condition it with some 400 w/d sandpaper.

66ninetyeightls

Brake rebuilders just apply compressed air to the caliper and it pops right out.

Lady72nRob71

Here is a not so good pic of the spindle parts:


As you can see, just the steering arm comes off, so there will be no spring action going on. Leave the ball joint nuts alone and you will be okay.

The piston seal is supposed to be gently pried out.
The piston itself can be popped out withe compressed air (as mentioned).
Beware, as just a little pressure could launch the piston into the unknown if you are not careful. Keep your fingers away fromt he piston, too, as it can come out with force..............

66ninetyeightls

I usually put a small block of wood in the piston to prevent the piston from flying out. Not sure about your area but I can get remanufactured calipers with pads in my area for under $45 with warranty. Not worth my time to rebuild them for that price.

69442C

Place a piece of wood inside the caliper where the pads go when you apply air to push the piston out. Otherwise the piston could go flying out or could hit the side of the caliper and put gouge in it. And as mentioned, keep you hands away as it will come out with a lot of force.

As long as you don't unbolt the front shock, the spring will not come out. And as long as you don't do anything with the ball joint nuts, the suspension will not move. Therefore, the backing plate can be removed without any issues. The large nut on the top of the backing plate will ususally have a tab folded over to lock the bolt in place. You'll have to bend it back and don't forget to fold the tab back onto the bolt when you reassemble. You will not affect the alignment settings doing a little R&R to the steering arm that is atttached with the lower two bolts.

Allan R

Don't know what reman calipers are worth here because I didn't ask. I can get discounted NAPA prices. Calipers AND pads for less than 45? Heck, pads for this car locally run almost 60.00 here. Are we talking about the same thing? If I have to replace rotor/hub assmbly the retail is 110.00/side but I can get them for quite a bit less. But, here's the breakdown on the cost of rebuild for me so far. 8.78 for both sides piston seals, 1.35 for bleeder. Grand total for each side? 5.74 I understand why you would go with reman Craig, for me I'm retired so the time is part of my fun & games routine.

Just what I needed to know. Nice pic BTW. Now I can go to work getting those bolts out. As far as the piston, I already have that out. You'll love this. I had to torch the bleeder to get it out; it was seized. Drained the extra brake fluid from the caliper reservoir and tried to shoot it out with compressed air. Got a good seal around the inlet and let her go! Nothing! It didn't even budge. Then I noticed - duhhhh' - I had an opening where the bleeder used to be. So I reinstalled the buggered up bleeder (temp) and that piston popped out really nice. Minor gunk buildup on the pad side but otherwise nice and shiny. Still I cleaned off the gunk and wire wheeled it. Looks like new! I guess I used just the right amount of air because the piston popped out perfectly and stopped when it hit the folded towel I used as a stopper.

As far as gently prying out the piston seal, someone needs to tell the seal that it's supposed to gently release its grip on the caliper bore. It must be a female seal because it's putting up a lot of resistance for no good reason

Exactly what I wanted to hear! BTW there's no bolt retaining tab on my car. I'm glad this will not affect the alignment on my car.

FWIW, I think this project came along just in time. When I took off the front rotor it revealed that there was very old grease and not much of it on the spindle, rear seal and front bearing. They'll clean up nice and I'll repack them with plenty to make rolling resistance less. I'm going to change to square wheels and tires + rename my car "The Silver Borg" because 'resistance is futile'. Sorry......

Just called NAPA and it appears that they are closed for our Labor Day Weekend so getting the parts to finish will have to wait till Tues. In the meantime, I've got a little time before the Labor Day Football games come on - 2 today and 1 tomorrow. LIFE IS GOOD!!

66ninetyeightls

Just for kicks I figured I would check RockAuto.com



I would be checking for a local supply of calipers.

Allan R

Craig, those are great prices, but includes core charges. I'm not about to ship them up and ship them back because that would increase the cost per side to about (ballpark) $Can95-100. Still cheaper to rebuild them myself and buy the pads from NAPA. When they open Tues I'll get a price and let you know how the cost compares. Now if RockAuto had free shipping up and core return, it would be a better deal, but still doesn't beat the cost of rebuilding myself. The calipers that are going back on the car however are OEM and should work just like new when installed. I don't expect to have to change them or service the brakes again in my lifetime.

BTW, I just checked rockauto.com and there are some good deals to be had. All the links for Canadian sites like Canada Auto PartsWay.ca do not carry parts for cars this old. Any help there? I just hate the shipping cost and time delays getting parts from the US to Canada, not to mention the 'surcharges' the Gov't imposes on imported goods. Maybe what I should have done is drive to the US, buy and install the parts and drive back? Road trip anyone?

66ninetyeightls

LOL I understand that. I only showed that because those are the similar prices I pay here so you should be able to find them in your area as well. If its local you can bring your old core with you.

I've got mine locally both from Carquest and a local brake rebuilder. The've even rebuilt my calipers for me when none were in stock. Done in 1 day.

Call these guys:

http://www.edbrakeclutch.ca/service/rebuild/

Allan R

Okay, update on this
The splash shield came off with relatively little difficulty. About 200 ft/lbs of steady applied force and it came loose.

69442C - You were right; I was wrong, there is a flange tab just like you said. I just didn't see it until I looked closer. straightened it and no problem getting that big honkin bolt out.

The dust boot on the caliper has met it's better days. The only way it was coming out was with a screwdriver tapped in between it and the piston bore. Out it came. The metal ring was rusted to the side of the piston bore, so that's why it was so hard to get out. Plus, it's probably the original dust boot installed at the factory over 39 years ago.

The caliper mounts just fell off when I touched them.

THE CLEAN UP
Rob, now I understand the time it's taken you on Lady. I spent the better part of 4 hours cleaning the caliper, dust shield and caliper mounts. I found that wire wheeling can be just like sandblasting if you do it right. After the wire wheel has adapted to one direction, I changed drill direction and lightly attacked the gunge on the surface. It worked fabulously. Just have to be carefull not to put too much pressure or it cuts into the metal surface. After I wheeled the 3 units, I got out some 180 sandpaper and spent about another 2 hours 'detail' sanding the surfaces so they are perfect. BTW I found the original part numbers stamped into the dust shield and caliper mounts. Used compressed air to dust them off, sprayed liberally with brake clean and blow dry again.

The steering knuckle is free floating right now. Would there be any harm in undoing the cotter pin/nut and removing it for cleanup? Looks like it's pretty much independant from any alignment issues, just detach from the grease fitting on the adjustment shaft? It would be really nice to get them all cleaned up at the same time.

I'm beginning to see why your project is so long in the tooth. There's always something else to look at doing. I however and not planning to go beyond cleaning up the brake areas, fittings that are visible right now. The rest of the frame, control arms etc look to be in amazingly good shape. Still this project will likely take me a couple more days and that's just for the one side. Not planning to bleed or drive it until both sides are done. Might also have to do the rear drums, I'll see next week. How hard can that be?

Pics:
IMG_1564.jpg?t=1315177446

IMG_1566.jpg?t=1315177447

IMG_1567.jpg?t=1315177447

IMG_1571.jpg?t=1315177447

IMG_1570.jpg?t=1315177447

69442C

Glad you saw the tab as they are hard to see at times especially if it is dirty. If it is missed, it will have you wondering why none of your sockets fit that bolt.

Removing the cotter pin and nut on the outer tie rod end will not release the tie rod end from the steering arm because the connection is a tapered fit and is pressed into place when the nut is tightened. If you want to remove it to clean it up, (it won't mess up the alignment) your best bet would be to just bolt the steering arm back to the spindle, remove the cotter pin and nut, then put the nut back on by a few threads and smack the side of the steering arm where the tie rod is with a 3lb hammer as the shock will usually allow the taper fit to break free. You might have to hit it pretty good several times. Then you can remove the nut and
disconnect the steering linkage/tie rod carefully. The linkage shouldn't turn as long as the adjusting sleeve clamps are tight and they probably are. It's important to remove that tie rod nut all the way before you break that connection loose because any dirt in the threads will cause you to spin that ball joint in the tie rod end if it's broken loose and you'll have a hard time removing the nut. So back it off all the way and then put it on by hand by just a few threads before you knock the connection loose.

Allan R

When I went to fit the sockets on that bolt, you nailed it. Nothing seemed to fit right. I am so grateful you pointed that out before I went nuts. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and I'm not going to try and pretend I see everything. That's why I usually like to take my time on things like this.

If I put the steering arm back on the spindle, how much should I torque the bolts down. I get the part about the pressed on fit by the linkage/tie rod. If I fully understand it, when I go to reassemble I would just crank the nut down till the assembly seats itself flush?

I do want to clean up the grease and gunk built up on the upper and lower control arms + what I can get off all the grease fittings.

IMG_1562-1.jpg

66ninetyeightls

Correct. You hit it HARD with a 5 pound swing press and it should drop out.

Allan R

A 5 pound 'swing press'?? WTH is a swing press? Do you by chance mean a BF Hammer?

66ninetyeightls

LOL you got it!!!!

Lady72nRob71

When you put those nuts on to whack with the BFH, thread 'em off to where the ball joint stud is just below the nut so the hammer will not hit it. You might soak with penetrating oil first.

Looks like those big nasty control arms need to come off for some cleaning as well. The ends can use some paint.
Come join me on the dark side.................
I am glad someone can see what I have been going through for the past 3 months +.
Hopefully my engine will change colors tomorrow.

66ninetyeightls

Your EVIL!!!!!

69442C

You don't need to torque the bolts for the steering arm...just tighten them to hold the arm in place while you hit it. I would recommend you hit it so the force is going from the front to the rear. If you hit it from outside toward inside, you could possibly bend the arm inward a little which will change your alignment settings. Better to be on the conservative side.

I see you called this steering arm an Idler Arm. Actually the Idler Arm is the other arm in the photo that is visible between the frame rail and sway bar. Just wanted to point that out.

When you get everything done and put back together but before you take it off the jack stands, lay under the front and grab the front outside of both tires and try to pull them inward at the same time. Then try to push both outward at the same time. See if any of the steering inkage moves or wobbles anywhere. If it does, the part that is moving needs further inspection and possible replacing.

69442C

[QUOTE=Lady72nRob71;318721]
Looks like those big nasty control arms need to come off for some cleaning as well. The ends can use some paint.
Come join me on the dark side.................
QUOTE]

Allan, you might want to consider blocking Rob from your thread as he got bit real bad by the "might as well" disease on his car. You can tell by his comments that he is still suffering strong effects of his illness. It's possible this disease is contagious so blocking his comments may be your only protection. If it is contagious and it works it's way into your garage, you may be involved in a full frame-off restoration before you even realize you have been infected. The disease is very resilient and even thrives in extreme heat. No telling if it would thrive in extreme cold but I suspect it would. When it takes hold of you, it will consume every free moment you have and it even manages to deplete your finances too. And I'm not sure a cure exists. It can go dormant for a period of time but it eventually flares up again, usually doing more damage the second time around. Take all necessary precautions.

Allan R

Based on the amount of grease in the area, I would think I won't need penetrating oil. Once I pull the cotter, I'll find out whether that nut will move or not. Great tip BTW to protect the stud.

Everytime I go to the garage, I look at my 'handywork' (aka parts strewn around all over the darn garage) I keep hearing voices. "Al, feel the poowwwwwwwerr of the dark side, You know you waaannnnt it". Then I snap out of it because I know I've got limited time before it gets cold and snows. And I know my Mrs doesn't enjoy cleaning snow off her car. She's already shaking her head and wondering when 'her parking spot' will be back I do plan to just clean both control arms for right now and spot paint a few places that I'm working on. Probably use some brush on POR.

Glad I came up to check Mr. Puter for messages before I went out to 'play'. I was planning on whacking the idler arm, not the stud/nut. Plan revised.

Yeah, I did call the steering knuckle the wrong thing. After I started working on this project I looked up what the parts were in the GM Parts Manual. Gotta remember: Steering knuckle. Don't know why they call it that, it looks nothing like a knuckle. Should have called it an odd shapped steering thingy - I'd get that.

Yes, I'll do a check for ball joint wear. They should be ok because they were only done about 30 years ago.....Point taken. Why mess with safety? I'll be checking that out, hopefully it's all good.

[QUOTE=69442C;318754]You guys are absolutely hysterical and make working on this project that much more fun. The input is fabulous and boost my confidence. Rob, you darn well know that I want to do that, you are sooooo bad I have total respect for what you`ve taken on. There's not a day goes by that I don't think about what you typed. To protect myself, each time I go to the garage I wrap my head in aluminum foil to 'block' the voices. I also have an Obi Wan recording playing while I work:

Obi Wan: Those are the parts you are allowed to touch
Me: These are the parts I`m allowed to touch
Obi Wan: Don`t touch those parts, they are not the ones you want to play with
Me: Don`t touch those parts, they are not the ones to play with
Obi Wan: Stay on course, let the force guide you
Me: Oh $hit! I`m in trouble

Obi Wan: Those are the parts you are allowed to touch......

69442C

Glad you enjoyed the humor. And I enjoyed your humor too. I'm still laughing at the vision of the aluminum foil wrapped around your head. Just keep the garage door closed so the neighbors can't see you and begin to get worried.

The procedure of pushing and pulling on both front tires at the same time will only check the steering linkage (tie rod ends, idler arm and pitman arm) and will not test the condition of the ball joints. There's a different procedure for those items. If you want to know how to do that let me know and I'll tell you how it's done.
Brian

Allan R

Rob, you bruiser! Well, right after I finished posting I went out, changed to work clothes and started painting the parts I cleaned yesterday. Looking real good! Course it's cooler up here (about 60°) so the paint takes longer to dry and cure. While I was waiting between coats I hooked up the steering knuckle and cleaned some of the caked grease from the ball joints and tie rod connection. Something felt horribly wrong. That's when my car smiled an evil grin and whispered in my ear...(the tin foil voice reflector didnt work that close to a car radio antenna)

Car: Those are the parts you are looking for....
Me: WTH are you talking about????
Car: Those are the parts you want to change.....
Me: Are you out of your friggin mind????
Car: Seriously, get your friggin hands dirty you greasy goober!!!
Me: OMG OMG OMG, you rotten dark side........wahhhhh (that's me crying like a girl now...wahhhhhh)

Yeah, both upper and lower ball joints are blown wide open. The lower is split in half, the upper is separated right at the top. Somehow you were able to telepathically affect my car so it would share Lady's pain!!!. Just kidding. But now I can't see the point of taking things apart, cleaning and putting them back together when they're just going to have to come apart again to do the ball joints. Now I'll have a chance to recondition everything that I wasn't going to touch before. So I'm going to bite the bullet and join you on the path down the dark side.

A little late now Brian. So now the whole thing is going to be moot. Guys, I need your continuing help on this. Please keep on coaching through the turbulent times that are sure to come. I will try to do the ball joints myself, but need to know how to do it SAFELY. I have my CSM so I'll start by reading through that.

Gotta say this isn't how I planned my Monday to work out. On the bright side, I'm going to get a LOT more hands on experience with my car than I ever dreamed about last night.....

I'm guessing that if this side is blown, so is the other side. May as well replace both of them. Should I replace all the grease fittings when I'm doing this? Probably wouldn't be too much extra work to pull the sway bar and steering linkages? Oh crap! I'm starting to think and talk like Rob!!!

Pics of the blown ball joints grease boots. Amazing how they still have some grease in them....

Holy Mother of holes. Split wide open from side to side


Upper boot is torn away from the metal fitting for a distance of about 1" You can't see from this pic, but the upper one looks like it's still riveted so it's probably original. It was supposed to have been changed back 30 years ago. I still have the darn invoice that says it was!!! Aren't replacement ball joints bolted in, instead of riveted?

Allan R

Well, I decided not to have a bad day so I just finished painting the caliper, mount and backing plate. They look awesome, in fact they look so good they could pass for NOS! Going to let the paint cure overnight before I tackle the piston and seal installation. I'll punch out the old spacers and put in the new ones that came with the rebuild kit. I think I'll use Rob's bolt head repaint trick. No point in putting everything back with rusty looking bolt heads showing . Is there some way to make the bolts look new without painting? I'll have to do some web searching for an answer to that I guess.





Now to the questions.

When I read through the CSM on replacing the upper/lower ball joints, it sounds like I don't actually have to take the control arms off - they just have to be supported by the jack under the shock? If that's the case is it possible to take both upper and lower ball joints out at the same time? That would allow me to also remove and clean up the spindle, and give me more working room for the reinstall of new ball joints, right? While the ball joints are out seems to be the logical time to clean the control arms and repaint. When I read through this section (3 in CSM) GM makes it sound like any kid with the right tools can do this. Mind you they also only show part of the whole picture; not necessarily how much room you have to work with or colorful new words you'll learn and repeat. Does this sound right to you guys? I'm not sure, but I think the local parts stores can loan out the tools I might need to press in new bushings. If they press in, they should press out too? X my fingers on that.

FYI, I ordered 2 sets of upper/lower ball joints because I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to do this on the other side. 23.00/ball joint.

Now the last question for today (maybe). The front stabilizer bar is bolted into the lower control arm. Is it under pressure while the lower control arm is being supported by the jack, or is it safe to unbolt (both sides) and clean up for reinstall? My Gaawwwwd Rob, look what you're doing to me!!!

69442C

Allan, looks like I was much too late with my warning as I see you have been infected. My apologies as I should have warned you sooner.

OK, here's the drill. If you don't have both sides of the car supported on jack stands, I would do so as it will be a little easier when it comes to dealing with the sway bar.

If you have your jack stand(s) placed under the frame, you don't need to support the lower control arm with a jack as long as you don't touch the front shocks. It won't do any harm to put a jack under the lower arm, but it is not necessary. You can remove the spindle by removing the upper and lower ball joint nuts and breaking the connections loose using the BFH. Since your boots are torn, you can also use a ball joint fork to separate them if the BFH doesn't work. I'm sure the parts store can rent you one if you don't have it. The upper control arm will jump up a little when you break one of the ball joints loose so make sure you plan for that. It won't move much but if you aren't expecting it it could give you a little scare. You do not need to remove the upper or lower control arms to replace the ball joints.

The factory upper ball joint is rivited so if yours are still retained with rivets, you either have the factory upper ball joints or someone replaced the entire upper control arm with a brand new GM piece which included the ball joint. You will need to drill out the rivets to remove the ball joint. The replacement ball joint will come with bolts, washers and nuts. The lower ball joint is pressed into the arm so you will need to rent or borrow a ball joint press to get that done.

The sway bar will fight you if the suspension on both sides is not sitting the same way. So if one side is still on the ground while you are working on the other side, the sway bar is being twisted a little which will make it difficult to install the end link kits. This is why it's better to have both sides of the front supported on jack stands.

I hate to even ask this but what is the condition of the upper control arm bushings? Those are the bushings at the end of the arm and they support the shaft that bolts to the frame. If they are bad, now is the time to deal with them. Hows that go....might as well? But I would only replace them if they are bad.

You should go back and review Rob's thread as he covers everything you'll need to do with replacing the parts you need to. The only difference is you will keep your control arms in the car as long as the upper arm bushings are still good.

Looks like you better have a chat with the wife about her parking spot in the garage as it doesn't look like she'll be getting it back soon. I would suggest flowers, maybe a few nights taking her out to dinner and if it really gets ugly, you might want to have a gift certificate for a Day of Beauty at one of the spas.

Nice job on the parts painting as they turned out nice.

I was thinking......since this is probably Rob's fault, I think it's only fair that she should fly up to Canada and do this work for you. As a minimum, he can just guide you and supervise.

Allan R

Allan R

Throw me a bone here.....True EVIL? Not in a 100 million gadjillion years...

What? No friggin sharks with friggin laser beams strapped to their friggin heads??? Prepare to fire the GIANT LASER....

69442C

On the reinstall - new ball joints - I'm guessing that the spindle goes in and the ball joint bolt/nut torgues the control arms and spindle together as a unit? or do you install the lower first, then the spindle and finally the upper? I'm a little unsure because there is no reference in the CSM

The ball joints are installed in the respective control arms first and then you would install the spindle. The spindle does not play a part in retaining the ball joints. So just knock the spindle loose, remove it, go about replacing the upper and lower ball joints and then install the spindle. You can sit the spindle on either the lower or upper ball joint first, tighten the nut by hand, install it on the other ball joint and tighten the nut by hand and then tighten/torque both of the nuts and install the cotter pins.

What does look like crap is the shock bushing.

The shock has a lot of force on it when there is nothing supporting the suspension and the upper bushing will look like it is crushed. Once you place the vehicle on the ground when the work is finished the bushing should go back to normal. If it is split, then you will want to consider replacing the shocks but not unit the rest of the suspension work is complete. Once you remove the spindle, the shock is the only think holding that lower control arm from dropping down and releasing that spring. So stay away from the shock until you replace the ball joints and have the spindle reinstalled.

She's the one in a million that most guys want. I'm just the lucky one who got her.

I got one of those myself.

Allan R

Ok guys, I'm in a little trouble.
Went out today and got the brake parts and ball joints. Then I went to Partsource and picked up a ball joint press kit (loaner).

First thing I did was pull the cotter pin & remove the nut on the ball joint that connects the idler arm to the steering arm. Put the nut back on as you suggested and started whacking on it to break the joint loose. All that's doing is stripping the threads on the inside of the bolt, so I stopped. Can't figure out how to press it out. Should I change gears and start hitting the idler arm instead of the BJ nut? I soaked it with penetrating oil, but that doesn't appear to be doing anything.

Next, since I couldn't do anything with getting the durn steering arm loose, I figured I would remove the upper ball joint nut. The cotter was a bugger to get out for some reason and now I can't get a wrench or socket on the nut because the stabilzer mount on the lower control arm interferes with it because it's at just enough angle to prevent a socket or ratchet from getting in there. Do I have to pull the stabilizer, or is this because I haven't yet leveled the car?

While I was underneath cleaning up the grease fittings (sadly, but not unexpectedly, they all look really shabby - I counted 11 including the BJs) I started wondering how far I should go with this. Then I stopped listening to the voices. That may come back to haunt me....

I don't mind saying that at this point I'm in over my head. I don't want to give up on this, I would like to see it through to completion. I sure don't want to wreck my car either. I know you guys do most of your work on your own, so I need to know the best plan of attack. I can keep the loaner press until Partsource needs it back. Just have to call them every couple of days to make sure no one else needs it. I also had a look at the bottom of the engine and it's coated with old and fresh oil gunk. I think it's time for a rebuild with that amount of oil seepage. Not right now though.

69442C

YIKES!!!

First off, what happend to picking Rob up at the airport this morning? Don't tell me he missed the flight? SIGH!

With regard to the outer tie rod connection to the steering arm....you want to be hitting the side of the arm, not the nut. Hit it on the side of the arm where the stud from the joint fits into the arm. And hit it on the front side that faces forward so you don't bend the arm. I hope you didn't mess up the threads on the stud for that joint. The nut can be replaced but if the threads are beat up on that tie rod you'll need to replace it. Same thing when it comes to breaking the spindle loose from the ball joints. Hit the side of the spindle and not the nut.

The sway bar link may move out of the way if you level the car. If it doesn't, you can try using an open end wrench on that nut or even a box wrench. If that doesn't work, try loosening the sway bar link so you can drop the bolt out of the way a little.

Brian

69442C

Here's a quick video I found on the Internet that will show you the general idea of breaking the taper fit on these joints loose. You don't need to use 2 hammers as this person did, just one will do the trick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX7GVWcB-bg

69442C

And here's one that deals with the outer tie rod. Ignore the steps where it shows the jam nut as you don't have that. The main thing to see is how he breaks the taper fit loose. If you do buy parts, you'll need to use the correct terms for these parts so someone doesn't look at you weird. Of course, they may still look at you weird if you forget to remove that tin foil off of your head before going to the store.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o41XW9MxDf0

Lady72nRob71

SHLUUUPPP!!!!

All of a sudden, from the corner of Allan's garage, a holographic image of Allan's car is projected from the shop vac, delivering the following cryptic message:

"Help me Allan R, you're my only hope.
Help me Allan R, you're my only hope.

My control arm bushings are old and deteriorated, as well as my sway bar mounts. The latter needs to be removed anyway to release my knuckles.
And since removing my knuckles is the bloodiest part of this operation, it only makes sense to do it all now. You have the tools and you have the Force. I do not want to let you down in the future.

Help me Allan R, you're my only hope..."


SHLUUUPPP!!!!

Hope you have seen "Hardware Wars" - a space saga of romance, rebellion, and household appliances...
If not, watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7p96aiE32k
You might need a good laugh soon...

Lady72nRob71

You guys had me on the floor rolling almost from everything posted regarding the "dark side"... Wow - Allan has the Bug now!

Sorry I missed the flight - I was out painting engine (and myself ) the last couple days.
It looks like you were getting good help in my absence.

Here is your cheat sheet - time to proof it out for me!
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...t-end-job.html

Might was well do the bushings, as they are easier than the ball joints (once you figure out the tricks). You already have the press.

The sway bar mounts on the control arm need to come off for access, so replace them if their bushings are old and compressed.
The good news is that the 4 tie rods, center link, and idler can be replaced later easily.

But then again.............................

Allan R

With the stablizer bolt/bushings out of the way, there's plenty of room to work on the ball joints. Only thing is I don't think I'm going to be happy unless I can get that steering arm and spindle out so they can get cleaned up. (when I re-read Robs thread, I was jealous that he only had dirt to clean, you should see the crap I'm dealing with) I'm going to have to drill the uppers to clear out the rivets. I'll go over to the other side and take off the other stabilizer bolt/bushings because it's next. The drivers side lower ball joint looks ok, but the upper is shot. So I'm just going to do them both. While the stabilizer bar is off, I'll clean it up and get it ready for reinstall.

When I went to pick up my parts today I almost died. They wanted $70.00 per ball joint (premium of course), 8.50/ bleeder (new check valve style doesn't require second person to bleed) and 55.00 for the pads. So I said NO, lets go with the basic stuff, this isn't a driver. So, ball joints came down to 20.00 each, bleeders 2.35 and still 55.00 for the pads. I was feeling pleased with my 'astuteness' and asked if they had black rust paint. Yup, they did and it was on sale for 3.00/ can. Bought a couple of them too. So now if I can manage to get this done the cost isn't as scary as going to a shop. + I get to install really nice clean looking stuff on the car. I'm planning to take pics of the rebuild for insurance and valuation that can't be seen by looking at the outside of the car.

While I was waiting to hear back I got to work on the front rotor. Took almost 4 hours to really get it clean. Good thing I was paying attention to details. The inner grease seal was totally shot - cracked all the way around. So I punched it out, and cleaned up the bearing race, and all the old stale grease in the hub. Then went to work wire wheeling, sanding and scraping all the gunge off the hub.

Here is the damaged grease seal. Good thing that didn't go back in or the hub would be spewing grease really soon and the brakes would probably get coated...man the little details. Rob, you schlep look what you got me doing...


After an eternity of cleaning, scraping, sanding etc, this is what the hub looked like. When the car was restored back in 86, Ken B sprayed undercoating on EVERYTHING underneath, including the hub, calipers, mounts etc. You get the idea. Now I'm taking off 28 year old hardened undercoating, layer by layer, chip by chip.....very tedious but well worth the effort. I get a sense of pride and accomplishment when I see results like this. Can't wait to do the stabilizer bar.


After taping off the rotor (good enough for a man on a fast horse) a couple coats of paint and she looks like this now. I was on a roll and decided to spray the vent slots too. really pops the rotor. The little bit of overspray will disappear with brake application.


This is my 'rental' ball joint press kit. Cost? 300.00. When I take it back I get the money back so long as it's intact


This is the drivers side which I haven't touched. It's in much better condition than the passenger side Note the 'slight buildup of grease'

Allan R

Tonight my car projected a holographic image of a hot naked temptress and said " I LOVE YOU ". Being a guy I naturally replied " Yeah, I know". Honey, I'll be right in, what's for supper??? . Actually got to give her credit, she comes out and watches once in a while. Doesn't know what's going on but pretends to be interested. Mostly she's just checking to see whether I've passed out or gotten hurt. Gotta love her..

Looking forward to the pictures of your new suntan - I understand it's copper gold?? Have you posted pics of Lady's engine yet? I'm dying to see it.

So far I haven't run up the same kind of tab you did on parts for Lady. Don't need all the ones on your list because I'm not going to do the control arms, well... I don't think I will,....it really depends on how much I want to get into this and how confident I am with my progress. I'm going to do shocks, but not right now

BTW, my neighbors all come by to watch what I'm doing. They all think I'm nuts. "Should be out there driving it, not taking it apart..." Then again, I look at their daily drivers and just smile. Drives them crazy . One of them came over and said, "you need a break, wanna watch a movie?" Course I thought he was kidding. Nope, he pulls out a HD PVR and hands it over. "The HDMI connection is loose" he says. If you can fix it, it's yours. I just smiled and said thanks.

Tommorrow I am going to get that durned connection on the idler broken apart - one way or another. Hopefully it will just POP and I'll be happy.

Stay tuned for the continuing episode of " ALLAN R didn't know when to Quit". After that Rob and I can take on the REST OF THE GALAXY, him in his white Deathstar, and me in my silver X wing fighter. Be sure to join us for "Return of the clowns" That hardware wars cracked me up!!

Allan R

Thx Brian.

Well this morning I went out to the garage it was a nice balmy 65°. Wanted to get to work early because the temp is supposed to reach 86 today, warmer tommorrow. I think Rob must have sent some of his 'cool' weather our way. I'll take it.

Starting banging on that durn steering arm. Shoulda seen me sitting on the floor banging that stupid thing for 2 minutes. Reminded me of those old wind up Japanese monkeys that used to clap their symbols. Nothing! I was starting to think the lesson I'd learned from Master Yoda was a joke. 'Ball joint, remove that will you easy enough young padowan'.

So I decided to go undo the drivers side of the stabilizer. That thing fought me better than my old girlfriend! In the end, the 1/2" nut on the top of the mount assembly sheared and voila! It fell out. So now it's pretty much a no brainer, I need a new stabilizer mount kit. Have to go back to Lady's front end job to see what Rob got. Anyway, the stabilzer bar came off really easy after that. Put it aside to work on later.

Went back to the steering arm. Picked up my hammer and went back at it. I hit one side, then the other, then the front. Repeat, repeat repeat. I was just ready to hit it again when the ball joint fell out. I looked at it in stunned disbelief for a full minute thinking "Well, oil beef hooked". So now I have the steering arm off. YAY!!!. Got the cotter pins off the ball joints (what a mess) and undid the castle nuts. Started whacking the side of the steering knuckle (aka the spindle). Nothing. So I went back to Mr. Puter and looked at what Rob did. I don't have all those things. So I tried putting a jack between the lower and upper ball joint and torquing it. Lost my nerve when the jack started to slide a bit.

So, for the rest of the day, I spend about 4 1/2 hours wire wheeling and sanding the steering arm, stabilizer bar and mount hardware. Then I painted them. Suuuwweeet! The stabilizer is still drying (3 hours to touch).
One thing I did find out was I need new stabilizer mount bushings. One was ok, but the other was badly ovaled. My theory is that one side of the car must have a weak spring (aaarrrgghhh, you know what that might mean). While I was under the car I started thinking:
I should take out the air dam and clean it up. You know, it might be just as easy to do all the steering components now instead of doing them later. Looks to me like everything comes off if you undo the big nut on the steering pump??? OMG OMG OMG I forgot to put on my aluminum foil.....

Anyway, what do I do now to get the ball joints to pop so I can get the spindle out? Also, can I drill out the rivets on the upper ball joint now, or should I wait until the spindle is free?

Here's what things look like now:

I think both of these are pretty much junk now. Sooo, Rob you might have to buy me some of these and ship them up??? BTW, did you check your mount kit to see if it's the same as the OEM? If I can't get a new set I'll get in touch with John McNeel or Eric Jensen. They have lots of stuff that may be usable.


This bushing looks pretty good compared to some of the others


The stabilizer mounts and bushings. One was almost paper thin on one side. Would like to know what caused that.


Steering arm before clean up. This looks so wierd to have a bend like that. But the casting line in the middle is dead straight.


Arrrggghhh Capn, clean up that there hook befor ya put it on yer hand...arrrggghh

Allan R

Stabilizer bar before clean up. Note shiny marks both sides from bushings. The wear wasn't uniform. That was also the only place on the whole bar that didn't need a lot of cleanup


Close up showing the side with the heaviest wear, and the odd ovaled out bushing.


The whole bar was coated with this crud. It was a good 3+ hours just on the bar to get ready for paint. Did you notice that one end where the stabilizer mounts to the LCA, one end is round, the other is square?? Any idea why?


Nice and clean steering arm. Yup, there's the part number cast right onto it.


This cleaned up real nice. You can't even see the small hammer marks I put in it trying to get it to release the ball joint. Don't know what the + means on the casting. Maybe: hit the darn thing on this side. Or hit many times to loosen??

Lady72nRob71

It was best that bolt broke off - makes it easier.
All you need 2 of Moog K6629 sway bar link sets (I think they are used on your car, too). They have the metal rod, bushings, and nuts. I got mine from rockauto for 9 bucks a set. I compared them to my originals and they look the same.
I knew yours were gonna be crappy!
Now if your control arm bushings are as bad......................

That pitman arm nut is torqued to 200ft-lb. That should be enough to resist the temptation to remove it.

What size hammer are you using on the spindles? A small sledge (3lb) is needed.
Loosen the nut a couple turns and jack up the spindle so the spring puts tension on the ball joint. Then give a solid whack on the side as indicated in my front end thread. A lot of little whacks won't phase it....

BTW, the shape of the sway bar end was so the assemblers could identify the diameters. Each shape would be a different diameter.
Square would be 0.937"

Its a good thing your chassis is nice and black. Otherwise, this would be a good time to repaint it.