Lady72nRob71

No, not in that-a-way… - Front suspension!
Come join me in some hammer-swingin', ball joint- bustin', bushing-beating fun!!!!

The reason for this work is that the lower control arm bushings are original and are literally falling apart and squalling loudly. Steering is a bit mushy and sway is more than I would like. Springs are a bit saggy but the rest of the parts are not too bad…
There are no issues with ball joints or bearings (so far) and the upper control arm bushings have been replaced already with Moog parts. However, these all will be replaced anyway out of prevention (and while I am at it) so everything is at the same age and mileage.
The steering components are not giving problems, so they will be put off until next year or so.

Below is what I had ordered:



Springs were chosen withthe help of this site:
http://classiccarsprings.com/coil-sp...fications.html

And here are the parts themselves, collecting dust for the past 6 months in the shed…



Other items that will be installed include new marker light gaskets and A-arm splash covers.


Now here is the first issue:

Since I have a tiny garage that is well-occupied, the easiest way to do this job would be to do one side at a time.
The left will be done first, then I will turn the car around and back it in for the other side (like how I did the doors last year).
Any issues with doing it this way (one side at a time)? I do not see any, other than less convenience.
I plan to leave the control arm bushing and lower shock bolts loose on the left side and then tighten all of them together when both sides are complete and car is at ride height.

Allan R

Six months? Is that all?
I've got stuff that's been waiting for 3 years .

As usual, I'm sure I can speak for most of us when I say that we'll be looking forward to the usual "Rob Report" on this build

I'm also thinking that in 2012 your 40 year old Supreme will be brand new again with all the work you've done to it. That's way cool.

69442C

One side at a time is perfectly fine other than less convenient as you mentioned. You get to go to school on the first side so the second side should go faster.

Bluevista

Cool.
We need some excitement around here.
How do you squall loudly?
Oh, now I get it....
You're typing it the way you say it phonetically in Texas, like Jamesbo does with his southern drawl.
Squeal rhymes with wall like pork rhymes with joke.

Speaking of squeals...
I was lookin' at that Larry cable guy on the TV and he was saying that he can't wait for the new movie, "Deliverance II...The Squealquel", to come out.
They should do like Star Wars and make one about what happened before the first movie and call it "Deliverance...The Presquealquel".
I hear banjo music.

Hmmm...my googled spellcheck doesn't seem to recognize thw word squealquel?
I usually ignore it anyway.


I thought you had a turntable in your garage like the Green Hornet Rob?
Do the last side first then you won't have to do the other side.

henryk8398

x2

Rob, I got a laugh when I saw the spreadsheet. I think I made the same one for mine when I did the front end! Good luck, you will love it!

Lady72nRob71

6 months for just the stuff in the box. The A-arm covers, lens gaskets, and some other stuff have been sitting around for 3 years...
Good point - Lady will be reborn at 40!

I am sure I will be squalling profanities a bit. I remember a while back the neighbors took their young kids in when i was cussing at something (I think the dynamat).
After then i started to crank the music up louder to cover it.
Or maybe they were concerned with airborn tools and debris......... I am convinced my chinesium utility knife is somewhere in orbit.

Yea, but the one I have of ALL the car parts listed together will just about make one cry...

Rickman48

Seems like a big job - but once you get started, it'll go pretty fast!
Careful with those springs!
Had you thought about urethane sway bar bushings and links?
Put some on my suburban, and my kids noticed it, it made that much of a difference!
Good luck!!

Lady72nRob71

Thanks - i am counting on it being a more rapid job than all the interior stuff I did.
I did this job on my little Ford 8 years ago and it was not too bad. It made a big improvement, even with rubber!
I did give some thought into urethane but not much. They are said to give a more harsh ride but better handling. I am more concerned with ride quality so i am going with quality rubber parts. Most new cars must come with urethane or no bushings at all and the ride is way too harsh and jittery.
I am changing the springs to high rate ones, so those should give all the extra handling I need.

firefrost gold

what springs are they i didnt see them in the spread sheet?

Lady72nRob71

They are hidden on line 12.

firefrost gold

read twice post one thanks

gearheads78

Everything looks good and it will be a knight and day difference. The only thing I would do different is don't used generic hardware store bolts. Either re-use the old ones or buy the correct suspension bolts. They will have the right taper on the end and shoulder to center it in the hole.

Texas442

Just curios, can you measure the length of the front springs? I just finished my suspension today. Here is the spring that came out of the car and I reused it after some good cleaning and painting:

Texas442

Also, Good time to replace the upper arm mounting bolts to the frame.

Indy_68_S

If you do these, I recommend AMK. They were really helpful while I was putting together my kit/order, parts are dead on OEM appearing, & a lot cheaper than some other repro part houses.

AMK Products

Cross shaft bolt kit # G-4627 (4 knurled bolts/4 proper lock nuts/shim pack) $14
Lower A-arm bolts kit # G-4608 (4 bolts/4 proper lock nuts) $20

Schne442

X2 on AMK
Gary

Lady72nRob71

I will see what the original lower bolts are like when I get the a-arms off. At least I now know where I can get them econonically.

BTW Schne442, here is a twist on your sig line...
"If you can't baffle 'em with brilliance, befuddle 'em with bulls**t."


New HD springs measure about 15.25". Have not got the old ones out yet.
The free length will vary depending on what diameter (stiffness) the wire is.

Nope - already been there two years ago...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post74952

sgibbisdrunk

looks like someone is going to be having fun this weekend and gl. Where did you get your parts from? I got a bunch of Hotchkis parts coming in the next few weeks to fix my lean and was wondering if anyone has found anywhere cheaper than summit on that stuff.

mhood

Thanks for the list Rob, bought the same parts (rear stuff too). Combined with the JGC steering box I got me a new 1972 convertible

455man

If I remember right those A arm bushings are a pain. Good luck.

Lady72nRob71

They sure look it and do not look forward to it. However, an engineer always prevails!


For those wondering, this project has been put off for a variety of issues and events.
Also I was doing a little automotive-adultery on the side..............
.A good friend of mine wanted me to help him restore the engine from his 76 Ford. I had the knowledge, so why not... Here are some pics of the carb I rebuilt. No refinishing - just clean and install a carb kit. With as bad as it looked, I am surprised the car ran as good as it did! Yes, his gas tank was resealed...


Hopefully when i get back from vacation on may 22, I can start this project.

Big Blue 72

Couldn't have said it better! I did my front end like this as well as the rear springs and shocks. Took a few nights but it all turned out well. The only problem was that I put in 1.5" drop springs and the aftermarket rims I had on it rub like crazy in turns. Hopefully you don't have that problem!

Big Blue 72

I used my bench vice and it worked like magic! What a versatile tool!

Lady72nRob71

If anything, the car will ride higher than now, since I am replacing with new HD stock springs. I just hope they will not be TOO stiff!

This is a tool I really need.

...as well as a PLACE on my cluttered bench to put it!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hey Rob,

Thanks for that spreadsheet you posted at the beginning, I'm slowly accumulating parts to redo my front suspention, It seems that alot of olds owners are partial to MOOG parts? I keep ordering Delco parts, for my car to keep it stock, should I be changing it up to MOOG for suspension?

Thanks!

-Tony

Lady72nRob71

Tony, I think Delco parts should be okay and if you have been using them lately with good results, then just keep at it.
Moog has had a good reputation based on experiences of others including myself. They are more expensive, but worth it. Rockauto is a great source of these parts.
I redid my Ford's suspension with Moog parts 8 years ago and it still drives like the day i finished!

The parts to be leary of are the cheap no-name or house-brand parts often found online, especially on fleabay. A front end job is a lot of work and is best done right the first time, even if it means spending more for parts that fit right and last. The idea is fix it and forget it for a long while!

I hope to start this job this Sunday, despite the hot humid weather we will have......

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Okay awesome, Thanks for the heads up Rob, I've been ordering most of my parts from Rockauto and shipping them to Champlain NY since i'm from Montreal and it's real hard to get parts up here in Canada for a fair price...

So far AC Delco parts have been working well for me across the board, It's been a long haul since i basically found my cutlass 3 years ago in a field rotting away and have had no choise but to replace many moving parts.

Here are some pictures. (Before and after)

GAOldsman

That's going to be one sweet ride when you get it finished, not to mention a sweet riding "Lady" she'll be. Nice!

OLD SKL 69

Looks like a fun weekend Rob. Are you going to paint up your new suspension parts too?

Lady72nRob71

Yes, I will be repainting the sway bar, control arms, and whatever else that requires it. I plan to use POR15.
I might do the brake calipers, too.
I already shot the shocks with grey spray paint a few weeks ago and they came out great!

The spiffy suspension will make the rest of the undercarriage look like crap, but hopefully not many will look under there...

Schne442

Rob, Don't forget the pictures for all us auto voyerus
Most of us guys would love a "Lady" with a nice "undercarriage"

citcapp

Have a fun Sunday Rob, She'll ride sweet when you're done.

Lady72nRob71

Finally decided to begin this project before it gets even hotter...
I will try to take advantage of the morning times before the garage heats up.

At 9am, Lady was raised, put on jackstands, and wheels pulled and stowed away. I marked the LF to know which goes where.

Here is the left side before I began:





Here is the brake caliper - not bad looking. I try to take many pictures to aid in reassy.

Its big 3/8" allen head bolts came off easily with a few whacks on the wrench with a rubber dead blow hammer. I left the bolts loose, but not removed for now.

The springs have sagged so much that you can see where the tie rod adjusters hit the frame when the suspension often bottomed out. Actually, I think those are supposed to be pointing DOWN!



Note this funky white bushing in the front position of the LF - it is a squeaky one!

Also note how close it is to the frame.

Lady72nRob71

I got a container for each side to hold the old bolts, nuts, and other hardware that was removed. These will be cleaned, derusted, and evaluated for reuse later. Never chunk old parts until the very end if you plan to replace them. You may need to reference them during the job.

So first I wire-brushed the threads of all the bolts I wanted to remove, since rust and dirt can cause a bolt to stop and even strip on the way off. Afterwards I sprayed WD40 on all of them.


The lower control arm bolts looked very rusty and had me worried. My friend had to sawzall his out since they were a rusty mass (took him 8 blades! ) Luckily in my case, they were just covered in East coast red dirt. All four of these came off with minimal effort. A ľ” wrench and a socket and ratchet worked well. The nuts were broke free with a few good whacks to the appropriate tool with the dead blow hammer. (To make things easier, ALWAYS turn the nut, not the bolt. Hold the bolt stationary.) The nuts were removed and bolts left in.

Next, I pulled the sway bar. I used my new 18V cordless impact wrench on the frame bolts and the link ends and they came off with no issue. Bolts, bar, and frame mounts were put aside for cleaning. End links were carefully reassembled the way they came off and put in the hardware containers. All of these were 9/16”

Tie rod ends are not going to be replaced at this time, but had to be removed. Cotter pins removed and bolts loosened with 11/16” socket. I whacked the ratchet with the dead blow hammer and they unscrewed easily. I removed the nuts, soaked the stud in WD40 and put the nuts back on upside down, threading them on just before the stud comes through the nut. After spraying them again with WD40 and soaking them for at least 15 minutes, I whacked the nuts with a framing hammer until they popped loose. I tighted the nuts a but to make sure the threads are okay then removed the nuts, dropped the tie rods, and put the nuts loosely back on their studs.

Lower shock ˝” bolts were popped out with the 18V impact driver. Upper bolt on the TH side started off okay but ˝ way off, it decides to seize. I fight with it a bit with a 6mm open end wrench on the stud and a 9/16” crow foot wench on the nut, but the stud wants to round off. After a while I gave up for now.

Next the upper and lower balljoints…
The cotter pins were extracted and the 7/8” nuts were broke loose with the dead blow hammer to the wrench.
As you can see by now, I value my dead blow hammer! Also, use the boxed end of your wrenches whenever possible to avoid damaging the fasteners.
I backed the nuts off the studs just enough to soak the studs in WD40. I whacked on one of the lowers but it will not budge. I pried and pounded but to no avail.

The garage was getting hot and I was sore from bending over and squeezing my body into odd formations to do the right side.
So at noon I called it quits. Not too bad for 3 hours of work…
Here is the left...


And the right... Note sway bar is gone now...

coltsneckbob

3 years - GREAT. I have only had one year this week. Also front end (springs, shocks, ball joints etc).

Perhaps this is a good time to ask a question about ball joints. Mine are original and are rivited in. The new ones will have to be done with screws. I got the ball joints caused I figured - well why not - but I am wondering how do I tell if a ball joint needs replacing or not? If the originals are in really good shape I just as soon leave the originals for it would be well "original" and of course less work.

Lady72nRob71

I had my front end parts for 9 months and I have finally started this.
How many miles on the original joints? There is a way to put a dial indicator on the brake disc and pry against the knuckle to check for movement. Mine seem pretty good, but since they are a pain to replace, I will just do this job once while the bushings are priority. If over 100k miles, just do them. The hardest part is the spring compressing and ball joint busting. The rivet drilling is easy!

69442C

Rob, a couple of suggestions for you. To break that lower ball joint stud loose from the spindle, get a decent size ball peen hammer and take a couple of good whacks to the side if the spindle where the stud is. You'll really need to hit it pretty hard and with a couple of good hits it should break loose. Or get a ball joint fork and pound it in there. Since you're replacing the ball joints, it won't matter if you tear up the boot. If you use the fork, make sure it doesn't hit on the control arm which means you will likely have to insert it from the forward facing end or the rearward facing side.

To take the upper nut off of the shock, there is a socket that has a double D shape to it that fits onto the shock stud. Place a 6 point box wrench over the nut then put the socket on the stud and spin the shock rather than the nut. I'm not sure if Craftsman sells that socket but Snap On does. So you might have to chase down one of those Snap On trucks at a repair business. If you have an impact wrench, the shock stud socket makes quick work of removing that nut. Just make sure it's oiled and I would go reverse for a few turns, forward and then reverse again. Keep spraying it with the WD40 and try to keep it moving so it doesn't lock up if the nut and stud get hot. If the one you're working on is chewed up now, break out the vice grips and clamp that shock stud real well.

69442C

To test the ball joints in a vehicle with the spring that fits between the lower control arm and the frame, place a floor jack under the lower control arm and lift the wheel off of the ground about 2 inches or so. Take a long screwdriver or pry bar (should be at least 18") and place it between the tire and the floor and lift up on the bar or screwdriver. See if applying pressure and releasing it causes any movement in either the lower or the upper ball joint. You might need a second person to look at the joints or do the prying while you look. Don't go crazy like you're trying to lift the car, just place a decent amount of pressure that would be needed to lift the weight of the wheel/tire and spindle assembly. Be careful not to knock it off the jack or you could get your fingers caught between the ground and the pry bar. If you place the floor jack directly where the lower control arm spring pocket is, you should be fine. Don't do this with a screw jack or bottle jack as it would be too risky of coming off that jack. If you feel free play, make sure it's not the wheel bearing and that it's the ball joint. If the upper control arm bushings are real bad, those will also move with this test.

Lady72nRob71

So yesterday afternoon I continued, after reading up on ball joint removal in the CSM. They mentioned a nifty little tool that goes over one BJ stud and pushes against the other when the tool is expanded with wrenches. I could not find this cool tool in local places so my engineering mind took over. I designed my own “tool” to mimic that in the CSM. I used two sockets and used the high grade threads of the ball joint nuts to provide the leverage. I used small socket sizes that would just slide over the threads, I think they were ˝ inchers. The black one is an impact socket, so it is very thick despite its socket size...

First the upper ball joints (UBJ):
The BJ nuts were removed (with floor jack supporting LCA), flipped upside down (castle side towards spindle) and left loosened a few turns.
While the LCA was jacked up, I shoved a wood block between the frame and UCA, then released the jack. This puts needed spring tension between the UBJ and lower to help pull them apart. I lubed the tops of the nuts and began loosening the ball joint nuts with wrenches until the tension made them very hard to turn.

I whacked the side of the spindle at the UBJ stud with a 24oz framing hammer. Nothing. I cranked a bit more tension on the BJ nuts and repeated. Nothing. Replaced framing hammer with baby sledge. POP!
I repeated for the right side.

Now the lower ball joints (LBJ):
Remove the wood blocks from under the UCAs.
I tried whacking the lowers when doing the uppers but no luck. I jacked up the hub to put more spring tension on the LBJ. Note jack position in relation to rotor angle:

This is important. The jack must roll as the rotor is lifted, so if it cannot roll, the suspension will slide off and come down hard. Only a wheeled jack like this should be used. Better yet would be to lift under the LCA spring and support the rotor on a jackstand or wide wood blocks. Either way, keep yourself out from under it. This is not an OSHA approved method, but it works and is safe if you keep your distance.

I did a slight redesign of my “tool” and used a steel plate as a spacer against the UBJ nut.

I cranked CCW on the LBJ nut, holding the spindle in place until it was snug - time to hammer! You will need to whack the spindle where I put the washer in the above picture. However, do not whack a washer!
I added tension on the "tool", whacked with baby sledge a few times, added more tension, whacked more, and POP!

I did the same on the right. Add tension with the “tool”, whack, add tension, whack, add more tension, whack……. This one was stubborn. I took a short rest, as the right side gives me very little room to move around. After I stood up, I heard a POP!
Nice – it did it by itself!
Okay, nice one hour’s work!

Lady72nRob71

After removing the caliper bolts the calipers were pried loose and removed, brake pads removed and spring clips retained. Next, brake calipers were hung by on the chassis with care, in hopes that they will stay out of my way…

I ended up using two sets of wires just to be safe.
The rotors were removed next. First I spun each of them by hand. The left was very snug but the right was fine. Dust cap gently pried off, cotter pin pulled and nuts loosened. Left one was hard to loosen - I suspect it was over-tightened long ago!
Left rotor was pulled, bearing retained and set aside in a pizza box. The grease was abundant and seemed fresh... Did not inspect bearings yet.

Right rotor was pulled next - SHE SLIMED ME!
As I pulled the right rotor, I got a bearing full of grease right in my lap! Luckily it was on my leg and not the clothes – I clean up easier… Again I curse my undersized garage!

This was half an hour.

Next was to conquer those upper shock nuts!
I tried doing the right side and it came off with a crow foot wrench without even having to touch the rod stud! Lots o’ WD40 helped I bet.

Now back to the stubborn left side…
69442c – you answered the question doing through my mind about a shock rod socket. I will have to get one for later. But for now, this thing was coming off NOW!

Since the stud was now rounded, I held the shock rod with vice grips but the rod just slipped. Next I cut a slot in the stud with the dremel to insert a big screwdriver. FAIL! The smaller side of the stud broke off with a flick of the wrist…
I used the dremel diamond cutter to slice through the side of the nut. With vice grips still on the rod, I used the impact wrench on the nut and it finally came off.

There's another half hour…….
I am 5 hours into this project so far and next will be spring wrestling - stay tuned...