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Most don’t know this, but those adv duration numbers are at .000, not .006. Erson never changed them from years ago. Take about 12* off of both.
I used the same lobe family but a 222/228@.050 on the same 108lsa in at 105 on a 9.5:1 350. I had 14-15” of vacuum and it ran great. That cam isn’t too big for a moderate 400 build.
are all their cams rated at .000 advertised, or just that one?
as far as being to big..if it wasn’t degree’d, and it wasn’t, and it’s in retarded, it will act way to big and have the symptoms he has
Last edited by CANADIANOLDS; May 23, 2023 at 07:28 AM.
Per the assembly shop (and yes, that is a measured statement based on the current situation) the preload is .050. That's what he sets preload on every engine he assembles, and with that preload in the lifters that's how he verified pushrod length. (Something to that extent anyway)
In regards to intake centerline, why 102 when the cam card states 106? Not questioning the reason, just looking for a better understanding as the most I'd ever paid attention to was LSA for sound, and lift for springs as the stuff I worked on previous was notorious for weak springs
cam card saying int C/L is 106 means it’s ground 2 degrees advanced. Nothing to do with any engine it’s going in..it’s a basic suggestion. It can be wherever the builder wants to put it
in your case advancing it even more helps build cylinder pressure early which brings the TQ band in sooner. Earlier int valve closing helps with idle vacuum
are all their cams rated at .000 advertised, or just that one?
as far as being to big..if it wasn’t degree’d, and it wasn’t, and it’s in retarded, it will act way to big and have the symptoms he has
Correct, I told him he may have an incorrect timing set, etc.
And yes to some degree, but mostly just their early flat tappet stuff. Most of those numbers are at .000, not .006. If they seem a bit large at times, then it’s a good likelihood that they’re at .000. Their stuff isn’t THAT lazy.😉.
Just out of curiousity, when the cam finally gets degreed/new timing set installed, will this fix my "new zero" mark on the timing tab? Or I guess a better way to ask, are they related?
Just out of curiousity, when the cam finally gets degreed/new timing set installed, will this fix my "new zero" mark on the timing tab? Or I guess a better way to ask, are they related?
The zero on the balancer and timing tab are governed solely by the crank and piston. You MUST ensure that is correct FIRST, before degreeing the cam.
The zero on the balancer and timing tab are governed solely by the crank and piston. You MUST ensure that is correct FIRST, before degreeing the cam.
currently, it is not. It is quite a few degrees up from the zero on the tab. I wouldn't overrule the potential of the new balancer being incorrect, but I do know when I went through trying to locate TDC to retime the car, it was not aligned (balancer to tab)
Just out of curiousity, when the cam finally gets degreed/new timing set installed, will this fix my "new zero" mark on the timing tab? Or I guess a better way to ask, are they related?
are you using the original damper and timing tab?
if you are, the only way the zero on the tab won’t line up at tdc with the mark on the damper is if damper outer ring has moved/slipped from its hub.
a damper like that should never be used again.
You can make a new mark on the damper but chances are it will move again
currently, it is not. It is quite a few degrees up from the zero on the tab. I wouldn't overrule the potential of the new balancer being incorrect, but I do know when I went through trying to locate TDC to retime the car, it was not aligned (balancer to tab)
OK, the reality is that you will be degreeing the cam with a degree wheel, not the balancer and timing tab, but since you have to determine TDC to zero the degree wheel, you should also adjust the timing tab at the same time.
Upon completion of the assembly, he scribed a mark on the tab where the new zero is (I'll try to get a picture this evening).
In regards to adjusting the tab..is it movable or is my only option the scribe that he put on there?
a pic of the tab would help.
what’s the part number/manufacturer of the new damper?
it’s odd the builder was diligent enough to figure out the damper tdc mark wasn’t actual tdc, but didn’t degree the cam? To find out what he found out, he would need a degree wheel, piston stop and go through everything involved in degree’ng a cam…but didn’t?
Last edited by CANADIANOLDS; May 23, 2023 at 01:06 PM.
He claimed he couldn't degree it because he only used parts that were supplied. However the previous machine shop supplied Pontiac bearings that were wrong, and had balanced/reconditioned rods that were bent..so that (to me) doesn't really hold up.
it’s odd the builder was diligent enough to figure out the damper tdc mark wasn’t actual tdc, but didn’t degree the cam? To find out what he found out, he would need a degree wheel, piston stop and go through everything involved in degree’ng a cam…but didn’t?
^^^^^^
His builder is an idiot by the way, a total idiot.
hard to believe anyone doesn’t degree a performance cam when doing a build these days..especially admitting to it
He only admitted it when blaming me for the parts (timing gear set) supplied. How was I to know that it needed a 9 keyway gearset..id never done this before.
If I am reading this correctly, this shop wants to sell you a 9 keyway timing set because they could not degree the cam without it! They (many cam companies and others) make camshaft degree bushing kits (approx. $25.00) which are very easy to use and only require partially enlarging the hole in your camshaft sprocket to accommodate insertion of the advance/retard bushing of necessity to properly degree your cam! This should be your choice and not theirs, inexpensive bushing kit or expensive 9 keyway timing set!!
If I am reading this correctly, this shop wants to sell you a 9 keyway timing set because they could not degree the cam without it! They (many cam companies and others) make camshaft degree bushing kits (approx. $25.00) which are very easy to use and only require partially enlarging the hole in your camshaft sprocket to accommodate insertion of the advance/retard bushing of necessity to properly degree your cam! This should be your choice and not theirs, inexpensive bushing kit or expensive 9 keyway timing set!!
They're not even trying to get me to purchase anything through them, its simply a "we're using your parts, its not our fault if its wrong" mentality. To an extent, I can kind of understand, however if the incorrect parts keep you from correctly assembling the engine-then that should tell you off the rip you need to obtain correct parts.
He only admitted it when blaming me for the parts (timing gear set) supplied. How was I to know that it needed a 9 keyway gearset..id never done this before.
You’re kinda missing the point, he could’ve at least checked it with the supplied set. But he didn’t even do that.
[QUOTE=CANADIANOLDS;1500170]so you know his work?/QUOTE]
From my many conversations with the op, I know his builder doesn’t check anything. That’s enough for me.
Correct, I told him he may have an incorrect timing set, etc.
And yes to some degree, but mostly just their early flat tappet stuff. Most of those numbers are at .000, not .006. If they seem a bit large at times, then it’s a good likelihood that they’re at .000. Their stuff isn’t THAT lazy.😉.
Is the (my) Erson JB100 spec'd at the same ".000" and not ".006" (the only diff I see btw this TQ40 and the JB100 is the JB's 112* LS) ??
It's advertised is 296/304 also .
Is the (my) Erson JB100 spec'd at the same ".000" and not ".006" (the only diff I see btw this TQ40 and the JB100 is the JB's 112* LS) ??
It's advertised is 296/304 also .
Yes, you can take about 10-12* off both of those.
Note; ALL Erson cams are supplied with a Cam Pro sheet showing all durations etc. Just look at what it says at .006. That compares with what most other cam companies use as their advertised duration.
Last edited by cutlassefi; May 25, 2023 at 03:58 AM.
Yes, you can take about 10-12* off both of those.
Note; ALL Erson cams are supplied with a Cam Pro sheet showing all durations etc. Just look at what it says at .006. That compares with what most other cam companies use as their advertised duration.
why wasn’t this guys cam supplied with all that info , like the .006”?
Yes they should at least be close but you’ll have chambers that are different sizes, one head may have been surfaced more than the other etc. And I’m sure he didn’t cc anywhere near all of them.
Yes they should at least be close but you’ll have chambers that are different sizes, one head may have been surfaced more than the other etc. And I’m sure he didn’t cc anywhere near all of them.
Not that it matters, but Im fairly certain both sleeved cylinders are on this side. While A. It shouldn't effect compression and B. It'd only be the two so I'm not sure why 3 of the 4 are lower on that side.
Were ALL of the plugs removed while doing the test? Was the battery getting weak? Was it on a charger? Did all of the cylinders "pump" the exact same number of times? Might be time for a leakdown test.
Yes they should at least be close but you’ll have chambers that are different sizes, one head may have been surfaced more than the other etc. And I’m sure he didn’t cc anywhere near all of them.
not in my world…even a good old running never apart factory engine is within a couple pounds of each other from what I’ve seen
