Me and my luck :(
January 30th, 2012, 05:59 AM
#201
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,831
Let me go thru this again so we're all on the same page. It seems Eric and Nick have the best handle on it.
I was instructed to get as much compression as possible, hence why I used the 5cc dish SRP piston and not the 14cc dished Icon.
When it was on the dyno, it made 465hp with about 29.5 dgrees of timing. When I kicked it up to 32 it lost hp everywhere and 14hp at peak. We then put it back at 29. It was then that we realized the water leak, it was just seeping but a leak nonetheless.
I changed the oil, adjusted the valves and we did a couple more pulls.
Panos - whenever I dyno an engine I always pull the pan afterwards. It's my standard procedure. I did it for mine, for yours and I did it with Kyles(10.3:1 Edelbrock heads, less cam than Panos', 32degrees of timing, but same dyno and fuel as Panos', no signs of detonation), all the ones I do. Your rod bearings showed clear signs of detonation, that backed up what I saw on the dyno. The crank was std/std and I used Clevite HXN std bearings. I had about .0025 on the rods and about .003 on the mains. Both main saddles and rod bores were done close to max dimension. I had about .018 rod side clearance iirc. Measured compression ratio was 10.8:1.
We didn't question the fuel until a problem arose. As Panos has already mentioned, he is a motor guy. He said it was running fine.
He later had an issue with 1 roller lifter and pushrods, I sent him a new set of pushrods and gaskets and a filter and 1 pair of lifters mostly on my dime, total cost to me, iirc about $400.00. Panos if any of this is incorrect please let me know.
He later found out that it wasn't really a pushrod issue but a rod bearing. At that time I confirmed that the fuel over there is not rated the same as here. Quite frankly with all due respect to Panos, I was surprised that he wasn't unaware of that. I confirmed that with another gentleman I know in Sweden who is an engineer for Volvo. Please remember, I had considerable detonation at 32 degrees, but neither I nor the dyno operator heard a thing. However we knew we had detonation based on the dyno results for that pull and our knowledge of the compression ratio and fuel used. Panos insisted the fuel there was better than what we had here so nothing was done to lower the compression ratio. We now know that's not the case.
Panos stated he was running about 33-34 degrees of timing in it using again, what we now know is essentially the same fuel as here. You can connect the dots from there.
I am on other forums and have now routinely mentioned this fuel issue to those in other countries that are interested in building iron headed American muscle. I've learned something here as well.
My machinist was very bothered by the whole incendent as well. That tells me something about him, he cares, as I do. That's why I continue to use him.
All clearances were correct. I installed all new rod bearings and ran it again on a stand before shipping, it ran fine and had good oil pressure. I believe I even still have a pic of it on that stand.
Someone mentioned that this was unfortunate for 2 people. I agree, Panos put his trust in me but I believe I did a good job in following his direction. However I did learn something, the customer is still always right, but double check their info. Shame on me for that.
I hope this clears up any issues. I have mentioned to Panos that I will continue to try to help in the future. He can reuse most of the rest of the parts to rebuild it if he wants to. I will gladly give him direction there if asked.
Thank you for your comments and consideration.
I was instructed to get as much compression as possible, hence why I used the 5cc dish SRP piston and not the 14cc dished Icon.
When it was on the dyno, it made 465hp with about 29.5 dgrees of timing. When I kicked it up to 32 it lost hp everywhere and 14hp at peak. We then put it back at 29. It was then that we realized the water leak, it was just seeping but a leak nonetheless.
I changed the oil, adjusted the valves and we did a couple more pulls.
Panos - whenever I dyno an engine I always pull the pan afterwards. It's my standard procedure. I did it for mine, for yours and I did it with Kyles(10.3:1 Edelbrock heads, less cam than Panos', 32degrees of timing, but same dyno and fuel as Panos', no signs of detonation), all the ones I do. Your rod bearings showed clear signs of detonation, that backed up what I saw on the dyno. The crank was std/std and I used Clevite HXN std bearings. I had about .0025 on the rods and about .003 on the mains. Both main saddles and rod bores were done close to max dimension. I had about .018 rod side clearance iirc. Measured compression ratio was 10.8:1.
We didn't question the fuel until a problem arose. As Panos has already mentioned, he is a motor guy. He said it was running fine.
He later had an issue with 1 roller lifter and pushrods, I sent him a new set of pushrods and gaskets and a filter and 1 pair of lifters mostly on my dime, total cost to me, iirc about $400.00. Panos if any of this is incorrect please let me know.
He later found out that it wasn't really a pushrod issue but a rod bearing. At that time I confirmed that the fuel over there is not rated the same as here. Quite frankly with all due respect to Panos, I was surprised that he wasn't unaware of that. I confirmed that with another gentleman I know in Sweden who is an engineer for Volvo. Please remember, I had considerable detonation at 32 degrees, but neither I nor the dyno operator heard a thing. However we knew we had detonation based on the dyno results for that pull and our knowledge of the compression ratio and fuel used. Panos insisted the fuel there was better than what we had here so nothing was done to lower the compression ratio. We now know that's not the case.
Panos stated he was running about 33-34 degrees of timing in it using again, what we now know is essentially the same fuel as here. You can connect the dots from there.
I am on other forums and have now routinely mentioned this fuel issue to those in other countries that are interested in building iron headed American muscle. I've learned something here as well.
My machinist was very bothered by the whole incendent as well. That tells me something about him, he cares, as I do. That's why I continue to use him.
All clearances were correct. I installed all new rod bearings and ran it again on a stand before shipping, it ran fine and had good oil pressure. I believe I even still have a pic of it on that stand.
Someone mentioned that this was unfortunate for 2 people. I agree, Panos put his trust in me but I believe I did a good job in following his direction. However I did learn something, the customer is still always right, but double check their info. Shame on me for that.
I hope this clears up any issues. I have mentioned to Panos that I will continue to try to help in the future. He can reuse most of the rest of the parts to rebuild it if he wants to. I will gladly give him direction there if asked.
Thank you for your comments and consideration.
Last edited by cutlassefi; January 30th, 2012 at 01:20 PM.
February 1st, 2012, 05:37 PM
#202
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
Harumph!
J/k! Luv you Mark! lol!
J/k! Luv you Mark! lol!
February 2nd, 2012, 09:00 PM
#203
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 370
What the, is this true colors and as usual crap ? 
I'm not the guy who built a $14000 dollar motor that blew up, I'm not a guy who circles message boards like a vulture looking for his next meal either.
I don't know why it cost so much to build a factory head 455 and on top of that it only made 465 HP, that speaks volumes.
Panos sent me a PM and told me you haven't done anything parts wise to help him get his 455 running again, once again that says alot.
380 Racer doesn't build his engines, doesn't port his own heads, never has.
Everything he says is second hand information he's learned from the people who's either built his engines and ported his heads and/or from reading stuff online.
His current engine builder is also driving/racing the car for 380 Racer and maintaining it for him, that makes me LMAO everytime I think about it.
I'm not the guy who built a $14000 dollar motor that blew up, I'm not a guy who circles message boards like a vulture looking for his next meal either.
I don't know why it cost so much to build a factory head 455 and on top of that it only made 465 HP, that speaks volumes.
Panos sent me a PM and told me you haven't done anything parts wise to help him get his 455 running again, once again that says alot.
Everything he says is second hand information he's learned from the people who's either built his engines and ported his heads and/or from reading stuff online.
His current engine builder is also driving/racing the car for 380 Racer and maintaining it for him, that makes me LMAO everytime I think about it.
Last edited by SBORule; February 2nd, 2012 at 09:04 PM.
February 3rd, 2012, 04:42 AM
#204
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,831
What the, is this true colors and as usual crap ?
I'm not the guy who built a $14000 dollar motor that blew up, I'm not a guy who circles message boards like a vulture looking for his next meal either. Again the facts seem to escape you, it was mid 7's plus frieght. I also packed a tranny with it to ship at the same time. And I give a whole lot more free sound advice than I "sell" anything.
I don't know why it cost so much to build a factory head 455 and on top of that it only made 465 HP, that speaks volumes. Go for it, do one yourself to the same specs and see what you get. With the only difference being higher compression, it made more than a ported Edelbrock headed HPtv motor did. And that one had a bigger carb and cool air, watch the episode.
Panos sent me a PM and told me you haven't done anything parts wise to help him get his 455 running again, once again that says alot. As previously stated, Panos knows what I offered to do. I also had an EFI and engine builder friend in England ready to drive to him to listen/diagnose the problem. He was going to do that as a favor to me, what does that say? He would also give him a break on machine work but Panos has obviosly decided to go in another direction. That's ok, it's Panos decision, not mine.
380 Racer doesn't build his engines, doesn't port his own heads, never has.
Everything he says is second hand information he's learned from the people who's either built his engines and ported his heads and/or from reading stuff online.
His current engine builder is also driving/racing the car for 380 Racer and maintaining it for him, that makes me LMAO everytime I think about it.
I'm not the guy who built a $14000 dollar motor that blew up, I'm not a guy who circles message boards like a vulture looking for his next meal either. Again the facts seem to escape you, it was mid 7's plus frieght. I also packed a tranny with it to ship at the same time. And I give a whole lot more free sound advice than I "sell" anything.
I don't know why it cost so much to build a factory head 455 and on top of that it only made 465 HP, that speaks volumes. Go for it, do one yourself to the same specs and see what you get. With the only difference being higher compression, it made more than a ported Edelbrock headed HPtv motor did. And that one had a bigger carb and cool air, watch the episode.
Panos sent me a PM and told me you haven't done anything parts wise to help him get his 455 running again, once again that says alot. As previously stated, Panos knows what I offered to do. I also had an EFI and engine builder friend in England ready to drive to him to listen/diagnose the problem. He was going to do that as a favor to me, what does that say? He would also give him a break on machine work but Panos has obviosly decided to go in another direction. That's ok, it's Panos decision, not mine.
380 Racer doesn't build his engines, doesn't port his own heads, never has.
Everything he says is second hand information he's learned from the people who's either built his engines and ported his heads and/or from reading stuff online.
His current engine builder is also driving/racing the car for 380 Racer and maintaining it for him, that makes me LMAO everytime I think about it.
You need to lose the anger, it's not worth it, life's too short.
Jmo.
Last edited by cutlassefi; February 3rd, 2012 at 07:14 AM.
February 3rd, 2012, 10:36 AM
#205
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,130
This message is hidden because SBORule is on your ignore list.
Yup, there is a good reason you are on my ignore list, it's well deserved.
Yup, there is a good reason you are on my ignore list, it's well deserved.
February 3rd, 2012, 12:25 PM
#206
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
This message is hidden because SBORule is on your ignore list.
Yup, there is a good reason you are on my ignore list, it's well deserved.
Yup, there is a good reason you are on my ignore list, it's well deserved.
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