MDchanic

You could have and should have.
I said this before. I was not going to rave about it. Some things just have to be learned through experience.


If you have an internally regulated alternator, you need to use that one, and not the one from the '68.



Similarly, I would have used the one from the '68, which would have prevented the problems you've already begun to have.

To repeat what I said in an earlier post: Why make things more complicated than they have to be?

You'll get this.

- Eric

svnt442

That doesn't make any sense. The spacing between the water pump and crank are identical on the 350 and the 455. They use the same balancer, timing gears and chain and timing cover.
If you used everything that was on the 350 on the 455 it should all fit.

BlackGold

The crank and water pump pulleys should be used in sets, as the factory intended. The water pump can be underdriven (large pulley on top, small on bottom) or overdriven (small pulley on top, large on bottom). I could see where a large pulley in both places might interfere, though I've never tried it nor done the math.

oldsguybry

The bottom pulley on the 350 was considerably larger then the one on the 455 , I just assumed tight away it had something to do with the waterpump since it is a different length . I've been trying to do wayyyy to much lately , I will take another look at it tomorrow and snap a photo or something . Like I said , everything seems to line up perfect as far as the belts are concerned . The only other thing I seen I already mentioned , the alternator bracket does not line up with the hole that the exhaust manifold bolts into .

oldsguybry

Very interesting .

oldsguybry

So how is this supposed to work ? I'm putting the 455 stuff back on ....

MDchanic

How does it fit with the exhaust manifold attached?

- Eric

joe_padavano

MDchanic

Look carefully at these diagrams, which include the spacer dimensions, thanks to Chris:



The thread about the spacers is here.

- Eric

oldsguybry

It won't matter because that doesn't bring the other two brackets any closer together .

joe_padavano

The upper bracket is an SBO-only bracket. The extra space is due to the taller deck height of the 455. Use a longer bolt and a spacer in there. You can fabricate the spacer from a short section of steel tube, electrical conduit, etc.

oldsguybry

That's what I was going to do , but then I got pissed and put the 455 bracket back on with the 350 alternator. I don't know why I did that because what you just suggested would be easier then putting all the 455 parts back on anyhow at this point . ( Probably because I couldn't find a long enough bolt ) I was hoping I would have this car out of my moms garage before I went on vacation .

oldsguybry

Well , I got the motor in the car lined up perfectly on the motor mounts , but the tranny sits about 2 inches away from the motor . Also the power steering unit had to be removed because it was hitting the steering gear box . I will post some pictures before I go on vacation if I get time .

MDchanic

Engine is too far forward.

- Eric

joe_padavano

But... but...

Didn't this car have a 350 previously? Unless the frame pads have been moved, it isn't possible to mount the engine forward of the correct location. Even if you hold the motor mounts to the wrong holes in the block, that moves the engine back.

MDchanic

But, if he somehow messed up the mounting of the motor mounts... I don't know, but the combination of transmission too far back and P/S pump hitting steering box sounds to me like an engine that is just a bit too far forward... somehow.

I've never had a transmission move backward, but I know there is a bit of extra length in the slip yoke, so I suppose if all of its mountings were loosened, it might move backward.

- Eric

oldsguybry

I took the two bolts out that mounts the tranny to the crossmember . I didn't remove any other bolts on the tranny ( If there are any ) ....

I can't utilize the other holes for the engine pads because the motor would be another 6 inches forward . I bought the Anchor 2261 mounting pads like I was told from someone on here .

I MAY be able to put the PS pump on now , but it still looks like the pulley will hit the gear box .

oldsguybry

is it possible the mounts on the frame are different ? The PO did a lot of rigging and changing of parts on this car . I have the Anchor 2261 pads . I will post a few pictures , but I was in a hurry to go to work that they may not cover everything you would need to see . Give me an hour and I will have them posted .

MDchanic

There aren't.
So, the transmission could have moved back just a bit in the course of all of the other things that have been going on...


As Joe noted, if you used the wrong mounting holes, the engine would be too far backward, not too far forward, so I can't quite picture what you've done here.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Here's the pictures I said I'd post . The motor looks a lot closer then I remember seeing it . Maybe I just need to move the chains around and screw with it some more when I get back from vacation ....



It's a bit hard to see , but here's an image of the limited space where the PS goes ....



You can see the gap in between the motor and tranny here ....

svnt442

That gap is all about lining up the dowel pins. Make sure not to tighten down the bellhousing bolts until you get BOTH pins in the trans or you WILL crack the bellhousing on the trans.

oldsguybry

I had both Dowels in the holes on a couple of occasions , but every time I tried to move the motor in position one would pop out . There was some fancy talking going on right about then . I think part of the problem is how I have the motor angled . I also had a jack / board under the tranny . Once again , every time I tried to jack it up or down the a dowel would pop out .

MDchanic

The transmission probably needs to be higher.

I say that because, in my experience, the transmission always needs to be higher.

Mate up the engine, add fasteners, take the jack out from under the transmission, then lower away.

- Eric

oldsguybry

I got a chance to work on the car yesterday after our camping trip , and I FINALLY got the motor and tranny together . It was a matter of putting a bolt in part way when I had it real close together so the cog wouldn't pop out when I was jacking the tranny up like it was before . Boy , those bell housing bolts SUCKED . I got a few other things done , but once again here comes the questions ....

Where should I mount the coil ? It sure as heck ain't going where it originally was . Not enough room between the back of the motor and the firewall . It also looks like I'll have to use the fuel pump off of the 350 also . The one one the 455 has an extra port . I'll post more pics later .

MDchanic

Mounting the coil on the intake manifold, where it was on the 350 should be fine.

- Eric

svnt442

What coil are you running?

oldsguybry

I'm not sure . It looks like the typical coil that would of came with the Toro . I will be taking some pictures tomorrow . I was over working on this car all day in 90 degree heat . I must of sweat out 10 gallons today . I made a couple of dumb moves that set things back a bit today , but it's pretty much done . I just have to add the fluids , tighten a few things , and hope it starts .

svnt442

Good deal.

MDchanic

Excellent.

- Eric

oldsguybry

No start . It's almost like no gas is getting through the carb . It definitely gets to the carb because gas was shooting out all over from the rig job on the front . I bought new orings and fixed that issue just to get it started . I replaced the plug wires , dist cap , rotor cap , points , and coil . It seems the only thing left would be the carb . I'm betting the jets are completely plugged . I also poured gas in the carb with no avail . I was going to soak the carb in vinegar or something for a few days after I take it apart to see if the car will start then , then it's off to get a new carb or a rebuilt original .

MDchanic

Do you have a good, strong spark?

- Eric

oldsguybry

Not sure . How would I check to be sure ?

MDchanic

If you look at a grounded spark plug, it should have a fat, blue-white spark (not orange or yellow).

If you arrange the end of a spark plug wire about ¾" (or maybe an inch, if everything is right) from ground, you should get a nice blue spark that easily jumps the gap.

- Eric

olds 307 and 403

Carb plugged or not, if everything else is right it should fire when gas is poured down the carb throat. If you have spark, double check the firing order, goes counter clockwise and maybe move the distributor to the firewall, on the passenger side, that is advancing it.

oldsguybry

I don't get the last sentence , I'm not very knowledgeable with this portion of troubleshooting .

oldsguybry

Ok I get it I think . I should check timing ? I don't have a light , but could get one or borrow one . I just undo that bolt at the bottom of distributor and turn a click ?

lol , wasn't thinking . This won't work if it's not running . I can very well turn it a click and try to start it though . I can always put it back if it don't work . I will check the spark deal Eric told me about first .

oldsguybry

I have a bunch of pictures when I get back from museum later on . I get no spark , I put a spark plug from the 350 in the number one plug wire on the 455 and tried to crank it ..... Nothing , no spark what so ever . I even tried it with a screw driver in the plug wire close to something metal .... Nothing .

I had everything tagged where ALL the wires came from including the parts that were connected there . One tag fell off the starter but the other two were still on there , so I put the single wire to the other side that was vacant where I assumed the tag was . The only other thing I can think of is I broke some kind of wire that I'm not seeing under the casing or something . The wire from the distributor going to the coil was almost broke in half . I cut it the rest of the way and spliced it , but I added about four inches of new wire to the existing wire because it was to short to work with . I have them twisted together pretty tight , so I wouldn't think that's the problem . I will add the pictures later .

MDchanic

So no need to mess with the carburetor yet, eh?


Just follow the current with a test light or a meter and you'll find the problem.

If the distributor's been sitting a while, dirty points are also a real possibility.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Distributor , cap , and points replaced .

MDchanic

Check each step, though, to be sure all is well.

- Eric