oldsguybry

Chains slipped when I removed 455 years ago and this happened ....



Here's the Dist Cap on 350 . Notice it's about 45 degrees to the right ....



Here's the one on the 455 . Notice that this one is almost 90 degrees to the right . Not sure if this is correct or if it was moved ....



Here's the new coil . The wires should be correct since everything was tagged . The wire on the left is the broken one that goes to the Dist Cap I spliced ....



Here's the old coil ....

MDchanic

The exact position of the cap is not important, as long as the vacuum advance is able to clear the firewall and other obstacles in order to obtain the correct timing adjustment.



I am ASSuming that the right / top terminal is the (+) and the left / bottom terminal is the (-).
If so, then it is connected correctly.



That's not the old coil.
It's the starter solenoid.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Yes , that's the starter I meant

oldsguybry

I'm assuming I have the starter wired correctly or it wouldn't even work . Not sure if that would affect the spark or not

MDchanic

Purple wire to S terminal from ignition switch.

Yellow(ish) wire from coil (+) terminal to R terminal.

Big wire to battery.

Not much to it.

- Eric

MDchanic

Attach a test light between coil (+) and ground - it should be on when the ignition switch is on AND when it is cranking.

Attach a test light between coil (-) and ground - it should flash on and off as you crank engine.

- Eric

oldsguybry

What about the ignition condenser that sits atop the coil ? The wire was broke on the 350 and it worked fine I believe , but the new coil I bought for the 455 doesn't have one .

Also , I felt the wires on the starter , and the smaller of the two wires ( not the battery one ) seems a bit limp . It's tight but the wire seems to bend around to easy like it's almost broke . I may have to unbolt the starter and bring it down to take a look . Will the Solenoid have anything to do with no spark ?

oldsguybry

Here's a picture of the starter installed on the car . The wire on the left that felt strange when I was feeling around up there is on the R terminal , which just so happens to go to the coil . Maybe this is the culprit . Not to mention I need to clean the connections up . I was pissed off / in a hurry the other day and was messing things up . This was one of them perhaps ....

MDchanic

That's an RF interference suppressor - it has nothing to do with the operation of the engine, but if it's not there, you might hear noise on your radio.




No.



All that that wire does is to conduct full battery power (bypassing the ballast resistor) to the coil (+) while the starter is cranking.
It is good to have, but will not prevent the car from running.
Since it is crimped into the same connector as the resistance wire at the coil end, if you want to test it, just put a voltmeter between the coil (+) terminal and ground, turn the key on, then crank the engine - you should have about 11-12V while cranking.
If you have 8-9V, that wire is not connected, or the solenoid isn't connecting it internally.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Sorry , I keep mixing up the starter with the coil for some reason .



So this won't affect the starting of the car , by not giving a spark to the coil ? If so I may have to take this to the garage . The wire I spoke of on the starter was broken . It was hanging by a thread , so I cut it and crimped a new end on the wire , but I still get no spark . I have another issue .... The oil filter adapter from the 350 is leaking . Almost half the oil was on the floor under the car . I thought it was the oil filter , but I put three other ones on there and still the same thing . Maybe the gasket was not on there right or something . I will have to take if off and look at it . I will test the wires like you said , but this is getting beyond me anymore .

oldsguybry

Pictures later ..... I put multimeter needle on the + on the coil and the other needle on the intake . I got a reading of about 190 .... I put the needle on the - on the coil and the other needle on the intake . I got a reading of 20 .... I put the needle on the end of the coil wire and the other on the intake . I got a reading of 90 . I had the multimeter set on 10 when I did this . I'm assuming that's volts . If I'm explaining anything wrong hopefully the pictures will tell the tale later .

All this with the ignition on , but not cranking .

oldsguybry

Ok , well I guess I'm going to try and put the spark plugs from the other motor in or buy some . I'm getting power from the coil obviously from my last post , so I will try that and gap the points that the auto parts store said were preset . I don't know what else to do .

MDchanic

Unfortunately, none of these numbers makes any sense.

The one thing I can say with certainty is that they do NOT represent voltage measurements.

We need to see what you are doing, and see exactly what kind of meter you are using.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Ok , I will post the pictures when I get home from work tonight . It seemed strange that I had a hard time getting a reading , but when I did those were the numbers I kept getting consistently .

oldsguybry

Here's the picture of the multimeter I used today with the readings illustrated . I was reading the top number off which is probably why it didn't make sense . You will have to expand the picture to actually read the writing I added ....

oldsguybry

ok that didn't work . The highest reading was when I had the meter on the + of the coil , with the other needle grounded to intake . The second highest reading was when I had the meter on the coil wire itself , with the other needle grounded to intake . The lowest reading was when I had the meter on the - of the coil , with the other needle grounded to intake . I set the switch on 10 because this is a 12 volt battery and figured that would be the best setting .

MDchanic

Just to be clear, you are saying that with the ignition switched on, you are measuring

6.5V between the coil (+) and ground,

2.5V between the "coil wire itself" [I have no idea what this means] and ground, and

0.5V between the coil (-) and ground.


If I ignore the middle reading, which I don't understand, I would say that MAYBE this could indicate a set of dirty points, which are closed.

If the points were open, you should have about 12.5V for the first reading.
With dirty points, I would expect more like 9V for the first reading, rather than the unusually low 6.5V, but I guess 6.5V is possible, especially if you have a number of dirty connections between the battery and the coil.

0.5V between a set of closed points and ground would indicate resistance in the points, which would need to be taken care of before going further.


Why not cycle the points open and closed with a screwdriver while reading the voltage between the coil (+) and ground, and also measure the resistance between the points wire, which connects to the coil (-) (with that wire disconnected) and ground, with te points closed?

Or better yet, why not go through the entire troubleshooting procedure outlined in this thread?

- Eric

oldsguybry

The points are brand new ... I apologize I'm not that shinning of a star when it comes to this type of troubleshooting .

oldsguybry

The middle reading meant ..... The spark plug looking wire coming off of the coil that goes to the distributor cap was removed from the distributor cap and the needle from the meter was inserted there , and the other meter needle was grounded on the intake . I'm also pressed for time between work , my mom , and my family , so sorry if I'm not doing everything perfect . I'm doing my best .

I'm going to pour a load of gas in the carb and try again today . If I don't get it started , I'll start it on fire trying lol .

oldsguybry

I really do appreciate your help Eric , Joe , and Steve . You have no idea how much . I have an appointment at the garage tomorrow if I don't figure this out today .

MDchanic

You need to follow the troubleshooting instructions in the link I posted.

They are clear, organized, and sequential, and require a minimum of tools and knowledge.

It should not be hard to get this car running.

Good luck!

- Eric

oldsguybry

I did not see that until now , but there's no way I'm going to have time to do all of what's mentioned before I have to go to work today . I have an appointment at the garage tomorrow , not that I can't postpone it , but this maybe a bit out of my league anymore .

I put the meter on the positive and negative leads of the coil and get 6 volts if I'm reading the meter right . I was going to check the TDC of number one plug , but I'm not sure if this would cause this problem . Let me ponder on this for a bit , maybe I'll cancel that appointment with the garage and spend the time to go through the link you provided in detail and see if i can figure this out myself .

oldsguybry

I thought you meant THIS thread . Sometimes we ALL don't read everything someone writes I guess . I had to repeat myself more then once on here

oldsguybry

Wow , that's great information Eric . I cancelled the appointment at the garage and will troubleshoot the issue this week / weekend . Hopefully I'll have it figured out by then .

oldsguybry

So far I checked where all wiring is hooked up per diagram , and it's correct . The coil may only be 6 volts with just the ignition on , but when I crank the motor it went between 8 and 10 volts . More testing to do .....

MDchanic

So far, so good...

- Eric

oldsguybry

It's Alive !!!!
The guy at the auto parts store steered me wrong when he told me the points were preset and that I didn't need to gap them . I should of known better and checked this sooner . I was looking under the dist cap once again today getting ready to do another test from that link I was given the other day , and decided to check the gap on the points since I was there anyhow . I tried putting the .016 gauge in front of the contact point with the high point of the distributor shaft under the plastic nub like it's supposed to be , that's when I noticed that it was completely closed and the gauge wouldn't come close to fitting in there . I had to turn the screw a bunch of times before the contact started opening . I got it set where it should be and the motor fired right up ! I will check it again in the morning after I buy some seafoam for the carb , along with some new spark plugs , and a jug of anti freeze to top the radiator off . The carb bogs quite a bit , and the motor seemed like it may have been misfiring a bit after it warmed up . Even with that going on the car has way more power then it did before , that's for sure . Here's a few pictures of the belt alignment , and the spacers I had to get in order to line everything up ....

Need a new belt obviously ...



PS bracket to side of motor ...



This takes care of the large space in between the PS bracket and the Alternator bracket ....

oldsguybry

If you look at the 1st picture in the post above , it looks like the alternator pulley is on an angle . Am I seeing things ?

MDchanic

I have no comment whatsoever.


Nope, that looks crooked.



You need to check the dimensions and placement of your spacers - it looks like the outside brackets are deviated too far toward the outside (rotated clockwise when looking from the top).

You're making good progress!

- Eric

oldsguybry

Good and Bad ....

Well , it runs , has power , but doesn't run perfectly yet . It seems to have a misfire or something . It's not your typical misfire where it runs choppy all the time . It seems to have this issue when it's idling , and when you start pushing the gas . Then it plains out to normal . I put seafoam in the motor and let it smoke away . This seemed to make it better , but I can't just let it sit and run for awhile until I get a radiator that will keep the engine cool enough , so it's still burning the seafoam off every time I start it .

I had an issue after I got the car home the first day it started . When I tried to put the battery cables on the next day I got a shower of sparks . I did some research , and I thought the starter was grounding itself out or something . I started taking the other starter apart so I could swap out the nose cones so it would fit on the car , but then I stopped after discovering this .... It seems the PO had spliced the junction box wire right to the positive battery cable , and wrapped it with electrical tape . I'm pretty sure they are two separate wires that go to the starter . Well , the electrical tape was coming off and I believe the junction box wire was grounding out on the motor block because it was REAL close to it . Either that or it was the starter wires because they were kind of loose , and the purple wire was almost touching the battery cable wire . I'm buying a new battery cable today , and I moved / tightened the starter wires + moved the battery cable away from the motor . One of the two already solved the problem because it's not sparking anymore .



I believe I fixed the alignment issue with the alternator ....



I had to put this back together ....



Here's another issue . I'm not sure what wire hooks to what sensor . Not to mention it's a longer stretch to reach them now . That's why the wires are stretched so tight . The extra wire connector not hooked up was for something that was on the other motor but not this one ....



Here's a sensor that I don't even have a wire for ....



I have no idea what vacuum line went to this broken hose ....



I believe this hose goes here ....



Let me know if you notice anything out of place . Thanks

MDchanic

That's the vacuum leak that is making the car idle funny.



Yes, that looks good.



Yes, but now you know how to take it apart in case you need to swap any parts.



Those look correct.



That's a second heat sensor used only in Toros - Don't worry about it.



Sure, that'll work fine. You may want to use a slightly longer one, though...

- Eric

oldsguybry

So what should I do , plug it or does it have a location it's supposed to go to ? ....

MDchanic

Cap it off.

See if it runs better.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Thanks a million ! The engine runs awesome !

MDchanic

Also, now that this engine is installed in an actual car, it is vitally important to emphasize that you MUST use AT LEAST 93 octane gasoline, and even with that, it is very likely that you will need to retard the timing compared to factory specifications.

This is a 10.5:1 engine.
It has higher compression than every other engine Olds made in those years, except the W-30.
If you run it on too low an octane, or if you can hear it ping, you WILL shatter the pistons, and that will be that.
I have done this myself (I'll give myself the benefit of the doubt, and guess that a PO did most of it, but I definitely did some) to a 10.25:1 1968 455, so I am not just blowing smoke. When you pull the pistons out, pieces fall out of them, like shattered glass.

The best thing to do it to time it to spec. and then use Octane Supreme in addition to 93 octane gas, to achieve the equivalent of the original specified 102-103 RON octane rating (equivalent to a modern 97-98 AKI octane rating).

Have fun with it!

- Eric

oldsguybry

Oh crap . There's 87 octane in there right now . I will add some 93 octane to it , and / or drive it to another town where I know they sell racing gas . It's over 100 octane I believe . Does this sound like a good idea ?

MDchanic

How much gas is in it?

If the tank isn't full, you can just fill a couple of cans and add 10 gallons of the 100 and you'll probably be close, at least.

I'd be REALLY careful of driving on 87, though, unless you retard the timing REALLY far, which will probably give you about 6mpg.

The one I had that holed pistons had 66,000 miles on it and had sat for about 10 years when I bought it in about 1993. I used nothing but 94 octane in it, but it still pinged a little, but I ASSume that when they were driving it around in the late '70s or early '80s, when there was nothing available but 87 octane, was when the most damage was done.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Ok , I need a damn radiator for the car . I don't want to keep using the 350 one , and everywhere I call leaves important details out , wasting my time . I was all set to buy a aluminum one , but the guy left the " there's no internal tranny cooler built in " part out . Those are for a manual transmission I guess ..... Grrrrrr lol

MDchanic

You missed the RockAuto closeout last month, huh?

- Eric

svnt442

Bottom one. It looks like it could be a 4 row which would require changing your saddles and top plate, but it would keep things cool.

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/o...,radiator,2172