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So here is some progress I have made in a few minutes, just trying to get a better look at what we have in the worst places and maybe see what ya'll think. I started with this tool
And just started doing some preliminary grinding, I don't have time to get deep into it because we have an appointment after lunch time. Ya'll know how a few minutes in the shop turn into a few hours and then you look over your shoulder and the wifey is glaring at you and holding up he watch with disgust because you have run late.
Here is a what I think, it looks like there is a pinch weld between the top panel and the side panel right along the ridge of the piece between the upper and lower side windows, I can see what looks like the demarcation between the two panels. If I am right can I repair the section that is in better shape or should I cut the whole four foot piece out and start anew with something?
this section above is in better shape and you can just make out the demarcation between two panels about mid-right in the picture.
the whole section that was worked on in the picture above.
this section is rotted through on the left of the above picture.
And above you can see the worst of it, well except for the section forward which is where there is no window at all. I think I am going to remove all the interior stuff before moving on as I don't really plan on doing a complete restore of all the interior stuff but might do some touch up, not sure yet so removing it is better either way.
Last edited by Oldsguy; March 6th, 2023 at 09:53 AM.
Reason: added missed word
There are a lot of interesting shows on Motortrend Network. Ian Roussel (Full Custom Garage) does a lot of really custom work, and you can learn a lot by watching him. Texas Metal is another show that does a lot of custom metal work. They both show you what they are doing, and how they are doing it. If you have a set of dollies, and hammers, you can make most anything. Getting it to perfect is somewhat time consuming. If you can get preformed patch panels like the pinch molds for around the windows it is easier. Sometimes you will make a part, and it does not fit where you made it for, but it will fit somewhere else.
Don't cut all the metal out at once, do a little section at a time, and complete it. The job will not become overwhelming like it would if you cut it all out at once. I know, some areas are all rust.
I meant to comment on this and forgot. I have watched Full Custom Garage and enjoyed it. Ian Roussel is an artist that has tremendous fabrication skills and zero fear of failure. He builds some remarkable stuff. I am not going to tackle the whole thing at once that is for sure, section by section, slow and steady.
Hate to say it but makes my vista look easy.Another guy to check out on youtube is Fitzee fabrication does alot of rust repair.He even made oai hood scoops out of steel on vista hood.
There is much more rot in that panel than you think.
I am not sure how much rot I think is there. If you are trying to prepare me for a hard look at reality I am there. Thanks for helping, I know this will be a long road to the end of the trip.
Shortly after I bought my 70 Vista and looked things over, I saw a ad for another Vista parts car for sale 100 miles away or so. I ended up buying the parts car. It had no title or engine, etc- I looked at the roof on that one and it was just as bad as mine, but looked like in different areas. I think 2 of the 3 vista windows were not cracked but were badly delaminated. I ended up cutting the entire roof off at the pillars and stored it on end against a wall in my garage. Then I found a vista in a really old salvage yard that had just been reopened by a new owner after long sickness and passing away of old owner. Anyway I bought the 3 delaminated vista windows and the 2 rear side windows out of that along with other parts. Those windows in the car at the yard were only held in by gravity! So you can see I was really gearing up - preparing to restore the old girl, but then I moved and decided to sell the car slowly reducing the price to $2000, including all the extras. It went to a guy who has another nice 72 Vista and I felt it was going to a good home. That was too cheap for a very dependable and safe rusty Vista Cruiser. But I figured I was going to put another $15,000 in a car that would be worth about $15,000 when done (probably more now). I have no idea what your situation is as in garage space, abilities, etc, But if you have the facilities to do this job I would go and buy a good shielded gas MIG welder and just think long about the way to do it and then just jump in! One bite at a time! We'll be routin' for ya!!!
Yeah I hear you. I barely have inside space to walk around the car and work on it but it's good enough. I am storing the windows on an industrial metal shelving unit next to the shop under a roofed awning. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
Dan, I see you are checking on the parts 68 Vista listed . Those pics look good, but I'll bet they aren't... He mentions one of the windows are cracked- really the only way for that to happen would be rust pushing up on it, unless someone hit it with a rock!!! But still if not too far I would go check on it. For $1200 you could prolly sell the 400 engine and trans and recover a good chunk. I think that the problem with Vistas was the rain would collect in the roof channels and rust them out over the years, so even the Texas and New Mexico cars were rusted up there.
Greg, yes I have heard that about the rain collecting in the channels and that makes sense. I am communicating now with the seller about the '68 and will give updates. For everyone an update in general about my immediate plans. Remove the driver side windows and all the interior panels, will keep everyone update as it goes.
Yeah I hear you. I barely have inside space to walk around the car and work on it but it's good enough. I am storing the windows on an industrial metal shelving unit next to the shop under a roofed awning. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
So the goal today was to remove the driver side windows and as much as the interior trim as possible, ACCOMPLISHED! However after three hours I was limping around like Walter Brennan as Grandpa in the Real McCoys show. I have a situation that the doctors haven't been able to pin down yet but basicly I get leg and foot cramps very easily and when the hit Hooweee it hurts. I had a foot cramp in my right foot (toes curling down) and in my left calf. How do you stretch one out without causing the other to get worse???
So here is a pic of the tools I used this time, the list is getting larger, I broke the plastic handle on the paint scraper and had to improvise with a Vise Grip plier.
I found much similar damage on the driver side, maybe not quite as bad but I thin you were correct Eric it was worse than I think I expected overall. Take a look at this huge silicone/rust snake I found under the drive vista window.
Here are a few pics of similar damage to the passenger side, as noted perhaps overall not as bad as the passenger side but all total worse than I expected.
Notice in the second picture with the screwdriver in it there is some fuzzy material imbedded in the silicone. It is either animal dander/hair or something like that, maybe plant fuzzies, I don't know but either way I am sure when the car was re-painted they did not remove the windows, clean the rust out, and prep it for paint. They just siliconed the holy snot out of everything and painted right over it!
I found that many of the retainer clips were either missing or imbedded with silicone and painted over like everything else. I think I found a website that sells these with screws to replace the broken/missing studs they are supposed to clip to.
I cleaned it up with a wire wheel to keep it for reference shape just in case there are different kinds.
Dan, glad to see you got the other Vista. I found a couple old pics of mine. I tried to find pics of the parted one but couldn't. Looks better than it was..... yep. Those wheels were rusty junk. Bought 'em at a swap meet for $50 bucks a set of 4! I just cleaned as best as I could, fogged them with silver paint.
Greg,
Yours was pretty similar to mine when I got it, just with a lot more rust. In these photos I had already added air ride, 12" 4 wheel discs from a 98 camaro, and boss 338 wheels. When I got it it was still all stock with the exception of SSII wheels added by the previous owner. Mine came from the pacific northwest (sold new in Washington State and later moving to Oregon before coming to PA 5 or 6 years before I got it). It had very little rust other than the lower rear quarters, lower fenters, and front dog legs of the rear wheel wells.
I am getting stoked seeing your pictures thanks. Seeing any other Vista helps me to keep motivated and challenges me to consider other options for appearance including different wheel combinations. By the way, those super stock wheels painted silver give a good idea of how clean as set would look chrome plated completely. Not having the chrome trim rings and instead having chrome on the wheel itself makes for a completely different look in my opinion.
Today got some time to work on the Vista, the goal was to get the front vista window removed and see what was in store for me. So the first order of business was to get some tools and start seperating the butyl sealant from the glass. I discovered that using a putty knife/scraper worked pretty well from inside the car. I could only last about a minute with my arms raised before having to stop and take a rest letting the blood flow back into the arms. It reminded me of bootcamp many, many years ago when the drill instructor had us raise our carbine rifle above our heads as we ran around shouting senless slogans or singing sensless songs...
There was some delamination on the window in one corner, presumeably where water had intruded and caused damage on the passenger side, the most anyway.
Next was the chore of removing the buty rubber from the window channel. I used one of those utility knives with a replaceable blade to score along between the sealant and the metal of the car following with the putty knife again on both the upper and lower sides. I decided to make a game of it and try to remove the whole piece in one shot withouth tearing it, why not?
TA DA! it worked. It looks like ther were two pieces used one older than the other. I read on another thread where a Vista owner installed his window and used sealant from a tube but later re-installed it with a butyl rope. I think that is what was used here on the newer stuff and I plan to use the same if possible when it gets to that point.
I found some white substance which I detected earlier in one of my posts above thinking it might be wax powder or bird poop or something, well I now know what it is can any one guess?
This last picture may seal the deal for you gents.
From this point I realized that a lot of crap would need to be cleaned out. I thought about using the shop vac and cleaning up but realized I would be using a knoted wire wheel on my grinder to clean stuff out so I decided to just go for it without cleaning anything. The car is getting new interior anyway. But first time for collecting and donning the proper PPE (personal protective equipment).
Sorry for the poor focus, only took one picture and didn't realize until just now that it was fuzzy but everyone gets the idea.
Going for it here, numerous photos of window channel both on the front and on the driver's side which I hadn't done until today.
Here is where I want to take the oportunity to query those of you who have welding skills. With your skill and a decent MIG would you attempt to repair this? Could you do so? or are the holes too large and the damage too extensive?
And finally I hit some bubbles knowing there would be what I expected beneath but some of these pictures revealed how much plastic was used previously in the repair before a previous paint job.
Finally, I don't know if the parts car is any better. I thought I might just cut off the whole damn roof and replace it from the parts car but there is extensive rust and rot on the INNER rear fender liners so I am sure there will be similar or worse rot when/if I remove the windows form it.
I would pull the glass and trim from the parts car next. Clean up the areas around the glass on it and see what you have. You really can't judge what the roof is going to look like by looking at the quarters. Before trying to fix the roof on the yellow car, strip the entire roof down to bare metal. There are a lot of leaded seems on the roofs of these cars and i think you are going to see major rot under all of them. If you decide to fix the roof you have after stripping it, buy a shrinker / stretcher and a small metal brake. With a little practice you will be able to make sections to replace the rotted metal, but that roof is pretty bad and it is going to be a lot of work to try to save it. I thinK the roof on the 68 is going to be in better shape than you think. If so, a complete roof swap is probably your best bet.
When I talked to my friends about my Vista roof they were surprised I was even considering using the pieces off the parts car. I just thought a bend already made was easier than making a bend with a brake, etc. But those guys said I should just start anew with new sheet metal.... Well I never did it so ????? But I have a little more experience with fixing rust on my 56 F100 than I had then ( but still not much). I would also start checking out the parts car and evaluate. If you can use the whole roof- hell ya!! But I doubt it will be that perfect... Yes you can make the bends, make new repair panels. Also you say you don't care about the interior? I still would remove it all, you may need the springs, etc. And after you start welding/grinding you sure don't want a fire!!! and with seats out there will be more room to crawl around inside. Good luck Dan, I'll be followin' ya. Start looking on craigslist / Marketplace ,etc for a deal on a mig welder!! Get one and start practicing of some scrap...
March 6th, 2023, 09:42 AM
