When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
So I pulled the Vista Cruiser into the shop today and am preparing to do some rust removal. As you can see from this photo there is some pretty bad stuff between the front vista window and the side windows on both the passenger and driver's side, it is worse on the passenger side. This car is going to be a driver/survivor so I am not doing concourse restoration work here, in fact I do not have much experience in body work but... I do want to get rid of the rust. I suspect there is a lot of work that needs to be done in the channels of the glass at least as I have read that this is what causes a lot of damage to our wagons. I ordered a trim removal tool and hope to get it tomorrow that being the first step. I plan to get all the trim off and then start grinding away all the rot, eliminate the rust, do some minor body work and patch paint the repair. I want to prevent any water leakage and make the repair a fifty footer. If anyone has any recommendations I would appreciate it. I don't plan to buy a paint gun, a paint booth, or anything like that. Is this a pipe dream? Future posts on my progress.
The window channel rot is a common problem and the cure is replacing the rotted metal, prep, and repaint. Welding will be involved as well as replacing the window seal.
This is not a superficial repair and will require a great deal of time,skill,equipment and money to be done properly. It doesn’t matter whether you’re doing a general repair or a concourse restoration. Please be advised that if your glass panels are salvageable, you could easily induce further problems while trying to carve out the existing damage. I do most all of my own work and have the equipment to do so. If I were facing the issues that you are, I’d still brace myself financially. Apologies, I know that’s “tough love” so to speak. It is the reality though.
Well I definitely know that I am no body man, I weld terribly and as said have not paint equipment. I do know that the best way is full removal of all glass, full removal of all bad rot to bare metal and replacement of any missing metal before filler and paint. I was just hoping to save myself thousands and thousands of dollars to keep a daily driver/survivor that way. I got an estimate for removal of the glass at $150 per window, no guarantee against breakage. I would hate to know how much a body shop would charge for the metal repair and would hate to consider trying to find one of the top three windows if one of them were to be broken. Maybe I did have a pipe dream after all...
Get a different quote to remove the top windows. I had the rear window removed from the 71 and they guaranteed it wouldn't break. As I recall it was about $200 and they stored the glass for me for a week.
I do think the rust on top of your Vista is pretty bad though. I think you should put a 455 in it instead.
Vista roof rust is unfortunately all too common. Cut and weld is the only right way to repair it. Yeah, this is pretty invasive. You need to remove the glass and the headliner and protect the interior with welding blankets. Expect to find it to be much worse than you thought. Belden has some pinchweld channel patches, but nothing specifically for the Vista roof windows. The straight parts are easy; the compound curves on the front window not so much. This is where the shrinker/stretcher comes in handy.
So after doing some work removing the trim I ended up with this, which didn't look too bad. This is the driver's side and I knew this was the better side.
I was beginning to see a pattern, overspray paint where it should not be. I already knew the car had been repainted as the original color was less yellow and more gold looking, and the finished surface looked somewhat like a MAACO job.
I got the trim off the front vista window as well it was a little more difficult since there was more silicone used to hold the window down, some of the clips were not there.
I am not sure what the white stuff was, either dried wax or dried pigeon poop, who knows...
Here are a few more pictures of the progress on the vista window, you can see more excess silicone. Sorry that the second picture is a little out of focus.
You can also see in the second picture a harbinger of what is to come the real bad spot in the lower left corner...
I started collecting all the superfluous silicone, by the time this picture was taken I had removed all from the vista window and most from the passenger side upper window.
I finally got the lower passenger side window off as well, added to the collection of silicone piling up on the leather pad on the hood. And well, after scraping with a knife, a screwdriver, and vacuuming up the loose stuff here is what I found.
Joe, I think you are correct. This is going to need some major repair work. I think the previous owner had someone paint the car and upon finding some rust around these windows they just gobbed in as much silicone as the could get into all the loose cavities. Not sure if the did it with the windows out, I think so but I don't think they did any real rust removal or primer work. There was no evidence of any primer on anything, just silicon and paint. I realize now that this will take some serious effort to correct.
OUCH. That's painful. Sadly not the first Vista I've seen like this. I looked at a 71 locally a few years ago with similar rust covered with troweled-on fiberglass. The silicone is never a good sign.
Make sure you wear an N95 mask and safety goggles when grinding.
After it's clean from rust you can hit it with rattle can primer and assess the repairs needed. Like I said on the phone, look at votech schools in Dallas, Garland, Richardson, etc. and sign up for an auto body course. Once you're found an auto body course to take you can talk to the instructor and figure out a way to complete the bodywork. If you had it done by a shop it would be well over $10k.
unless you are going to cut out the rust and sandblast the remaining areas after cut out , you are wasting your time
its a lot of work and there is no way to (patch ) it and it stay gone
Good luck and nice car
unless you are going to cut out the rust and sandblast the remaining areas after cut out , you are wasting your time
its a lot of work and there is no way to (patch ) it and it stay gone
Good luck and nice car
I disagree. Using a rust removal tool like I linked combined with naval jelly, rust converter and primer will stop that rust in its tracks. Of course, given enough time the panel may rust again, but doing the repair correctly is going to be better than slathering bondo on it.
They don't call it cancer for nothing, and the treatment is the same. It has to be surgically removed. You can also call around to the body shop schools and see if they can use your car as a class project. It means it will be down for a while though.
Oh man.... This is one of the reasons I decided to sell my 70 Vista as is. You have (had) a driver Vista. I hope you will have one again. This is how some decent 20 footer cars end up becoming parts cars. Dan, I am not trying to be a jerk, I feel for ya buddy but I'm afraid you have crossed over and passed the point of no return. Good luck, I would start looking for some restoration shop help and open your wallet wide.
I hear everyone's comments and am still undecided. At least I can clean as much as I can and if it ends up being done by a body shop then I have saved myself some labor on the front end, if I try to do it some other way then some of the initial work will have been done.
I see this all the time. You've got serious rot, not surface rust. Don't even bother with a rust removing wheel. A quick wire brushing will show the holes that you have. If you don't know how to weld, you better learn! You have a real bad situation on hand.Sorry!
It will cost you less to learn how to TIG weld, and purchase a welder than to have the job done by a shop, and you will have a TIG welder to have and hold. If you have a shop do it, you will have an even emptier pocket and no TIG welder. A shrinker can make straight pinch weld patches curved. The most difficult part will be shrinkage when welding. You must get behind the panel with a dolly to stretch the metal back to its original dimensions. Body shop classes are a good idea, but at least take a welding class (TIG). You can weld the steel with a MIG, but the TIG is more versatile.
Since the car is an odd color, and you would like to return it to its original color, just shoot some rattle can primer and single stage top coat on it, then take it to a paint shop.
You must remove all of the rust infected metal before installing new metal. You can not weld to rust. A cutoff wheel in an angle grinder is one of the best tools for large rust removal.
I took an auto body course 3 times in a row to do the bodywork on my 71. I also did a welding course for 1 semester at the local votech. The auto body course was more valuable than the welding course, but that could be due to the instructor.
It will cost you less to learn how to TIG weld, and purchase a welder than to have the job done by a shop, and you will have a TIG welder to have and hold. If you have a shop do it, you will have an even emptier pocket and no TIG welder. A shrinker can make straight pinch weld patches curved. The most difficult part will be shrinkage when welding. You must get behind the panel with a dolly to stretch the metal back to its original dimensions. Body shop classes are a good idea, but at least take a welding class (TIG). You can weld the steel with a MIG, but the TIG is more versatile.
Since the car is an odd color, and you would like to return it to its original color, just shoot some rattle can primer and single stage top coat on it, then take it to a paint shop.
You must remove all of the rust infected metal before installing new metal. You can not weld to rust. A cutoff wheel in an angle grinder is one of the best tools for large rust removal.
You have your work cut out for you, good luck.
I think you are correct and can see the reasoning behind this. I have a small MIG, I think the brand is Forney from Harbor Freight. I get poor results and can only weld utility stuff like repair the broken leg on a bbq gril, etc. As far as shrinking and using a dolly, there isn't any room on that top panel the inner panel is probably 1/2 an inch beneath it but I am sure there are ways. Perhaps getting a TIG and taking a class like Jesse said is the trick.
I'll throw in my TIG experience. I got an AlphaTIG 201X. It's all about practice. A class is just going to be paying for practice time you can do at home. The claim is that TIG is a lot like welding with a gas torch. There's a lot of truth to that. I'm pretty good with a torch and the TIG came to me pretty quickly. People lose a lot of sleep fretting over tungsten type, or angle, or gas cup size. None of that matters for a beginner. Get coupons and just lay a lot of bead. My older AlphaTIG came with the crappy foot pedal. I got the upgraded one and it made a huge difference with aluminum, but frankly the finger trigger on/off switch is better for thin sheet metal. I just set the machine to what I need and go for it. The advantage on the roof windows is that it's a pretty high crown area, so warpage will be minimal (or at least, not as noticeable). Also, it's worth getting one of the newer, true color self-darkening helmets.
Thanks Joe for the suggestions. I really would like to be able to weld better, I think that buying the el cheapo unit got me started on the wrong foot as I couldn't really get any kind of clean weld, lots of sputtering and turds everywhere. I did learn that power level does make quite a bit of difference especially when working on thin stuff. At first I blew a lot of holes through things.
There are a lot of interesting shows on Motortrend Network. Ian Roussel (Full Custom Garage) does a lot of really custom work, and you can learn a lot by watching him. Texas Metal is another show that does a lot of custom metal work. They both show you what they are doing, and how they are doing it. If you have a set of dollies, and hammers, you can make most anything. Getting it to perfect is somewhat time consuming. If you can get preformed patch panels like the pinch molds for around the windows it is easier. Sometimes you will make a part, and it does not fit where you made it for, but it will fit somewhere else.
Don't cut all the metal out at once, do a little section at a time, and complete it. The job will not become overwhelming like it would if you cut it all out at once. I know, some areas are all rust.
Don't cut all the metal out at once, do a little section at a time, and complete it. The job will not become overwhelming like it would if you cut it all out at once. I know, some areas are all rust.[/QUOTE]
I strongly agree with Fred on this comment. You would be likely to loose the initial shape if you were to just cut all of the bad areas out. The surrounding parent metal would also support and extract heat from the repairs to help prevent warping/distortion.
Dan,
Are you currently using a mig welder with flux core wire or one with shielding gas (argon/CO2 mix)? If using a flux core welder, you will notice a HUGE improvemnt moving to a decent gas welder. Even moving from an old harbor frieght gas welder to a good gas welder should give you noticable improvement. I used a crappy harbor frieght gas welder for years (bought new around 2000 used up until 2012 or so). It got the job done, but moving to a good HOBART made a huge difference.
The problem with cheap welders, is not a power issue, but the inability to fine tune the heat and wire speed settings to go with the thin sheet metal. That's where better welders are so much easier to weld with.
Thanks all for the suggestions. Yes, I plan on doing small sections at a time. Probably going to source out pinch mold sections someplace as well. Yes, I do have a flux core mig, not the cheapest but not top of the line, I had heard that shielding gas will really help out and having more settings as well, so probably will do that. I found an older Hobart unit at a local antique mall, the kind where vendors lease space from a building owner, reached out to the vendor and his answer was "it's nor for sale" why was it in the booth then? Who knows. I had something come up last Friday and Saturday and didn't work yesterday but hope to start doing some clean up today. Will post pictures of my progress...
February 28th, 2023, 07:54 PM
