TREMEC 5 speed
September 12th, 2009, 09:38 AM
#1
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TREMEC 5 speed
Well I have been debating gearvendors overdrive and now thinking about TREMEC 5 speed. Complete quote including driveshaft and shipping 2,900. I have read that some folks have had shifting and noise issues with the TREMEC. Any one have experiance with this swap.
Thanks..
Thanks..
September 12th, 2009, 11:44 AM
#2
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Location: Rathdrum, Idano
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PM Gearheads78, he has been running one in his car for a while now. I bought a TKO 600 for my 48 Olds but have not installed it yet but I did a lot of research and I believe it is better then the Richmond tranny
September 14th, 2009, 08:57 AM
#3
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Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 198
High performance t-5's tend to be a little noisier than a Muncie. This is due to the straight cut gears used (similalr to an M-22).
I also understand that because the shifter in integrated into the transmission that it transmits more noise through the shifter. This is made worse with an aftermarket shifter because it removed the nylon insulator.
Honestly, unless you are a serious racer and really abuse your car, you can build a stout Mustang T-5 for about $600.00 + the used tranny.
You will need to fabricate an adaptor plate and lter the input shaft.
I just bought one from a friends race Mustang, this thing was abused, beaten and slam shifted and never broke! I am going to rebuild it this winter.
I figure a 2:95 first and 3:25 rears should be an excellent combination and the overdrive should give me 1800rpm, 60mph cruising.
I also understand that because the shifter in integrated into the transmission that it transmits more noise through the shifter. This is made worse with an aftermarket shifter because it removed the nylon insulator.
Honestly, unless you are a serious racer and really abuse your car, you can build a stout Mustang T-5 for about $600.00 + the used tranny.
You will need to fabricate an adaptor plate and lter the input shaft.
I just bought one from a friends race Mustang, this thing was abused, beaten and slam shifted and never broke! I am going to rebuild it this winter.
I figure a 2:95 first and 3:25 rears should be an excellent combination and the overdrive should give me 1800rpm, 60mph cruising.
September 14th, 2009, 09:41 AM
#4
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The guys with shifting problems probably did not dial in the bell housing to spec. I have at least a 1000 miles on my TKO 600 so far its its been flawless. I hope to put some real power to it in the near future. With my 315hp stock 330 and 3.73 gears it cruises real nice under 2000 rpm at 70
February 13th, 2010, 11:13 AM
#5
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Posts: 73
getting a 5 month thread going again... i am planning on doing a Tremec 5-speed conversion (from TH400 auto). i have discovered that i'll need to find an Olds OEM bellhousing (or aftermarket scattershied?). i'll also need to find an Olds source for the pedal and pedal linkage conversion (an auto to Tremec conversion is so much easier in a Chevy!).
does anyone have a source for Olds OEM parts like this?
i understand that Popular Hot Rod is doing a 1965 feature-project car http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1002phr_1965_oldsmobile_cutlass/index.html are apparently doing a Tremec conversion in an upcoming issue...
does anyone have a source for Olds OEM parts like this?
i understand that Popular Hot Rod is doing a 1965 feature-project car http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/1002phr_1965_oldsmobile_cutlass/index.html are apparently doing a Tremec conversion in an upcoming issue...
February 13th, 2010, 11:42 AM
#6
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BOP (Buick, Olds, Pontiac) bellhousings are pretty common and on ebay all the time, mid-1960's to mid 1970's at least will work. I believe A-Body pedals from any of the GM manufacturers 1968-72 will work. You'll need to get Oldsmobile specific Z-bar and parts associated to it. I'd suggest surfing ebay and posting a parts wanted ad on this site. Also please list your location or the nearest large city and state to help folks get a guess on how shipping costs will affect the costs. John
February 14th, 2010, 06:49 AM
#7
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BOP (Buick, Olds, Pontiac) bellhousings are pretty common and on ebay all the time, mid-1960's to mid 1970's at least will work. I believe A-Body pedals from any of the GM manufacturers 1968-72 will work. You'll need to get Oldsmobile specific Z-bar and parts associated to it. I'd suggest surfing ebay and posting a parts wanted ad on this site. Also please list your location or the nearest large city and state to help folks get a guess on how shipping costs will affect the costs. John
http://www.4speedconversions.com/581
i also found the Olds specific Z-bar (fusick's), but am still looking for all of the pedal hardware. i am thinking of taking out the center console and going with the old school look ~ shifter sticking out of the trans. hump... i would need to find the finishing pieces to do it that way... (Richard ~ you out there? i hold you partially responsible for this... and Chip Foose too)
February 15th, 2010, 05:49 AM
#8
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more things to consider... i had no idea that the olds crank for a manual trans. is different for an 'automatic' crank. it looks like Mondello has an easy fix... does anyone have any experience with this conversion? trimming the input shaft sounds interesting...
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofcrk.htm
Pilot Bearing
The pilot bearing is a bearing [in this case a bushing- an after market quick/dirty fix] in the rear of the crankshaft, into which the [manual] trans pilot shaft fits. Serves to support the front end of the trans shaft. Only MT engines had pilot bearings. Since 90% of Olds engines were destined for AT use, most Olds cranks are not even drilled to accept a pilot bearing. So, spend another $80-100 to have the hole cut and buy the bearing if you have a manual trans.
I've used an auto crank with a stick tranny before. This is no big deal. You can have a bushing machined or buy the one Mondello sells. The bushing fits into the large recess that locates the convertor in the crank (where the torque converter hub would normally rest.).
You'll need to also do one of two thing; 1. Grind the input shaft of the manual tranny off so it is just long enough to reach the front of the "new" bushing. NOTE: If you do this the tranny will no longer work with a stick shift crank.
2. Drill a hole in the center of the crank a little larger than the input shaft to make room for the input shaft. NOTE: This hole will NOT locate the input shaft in the crank. The bushing does that.
The hole does not need to be drilled on a lathe. The recess in the crank is tapered so your starter bit will be located in the center. NOTE: make sure you drill the hole deep enough so that the input shaft will not bottom in the hole.
I've used an old bushing that was sold to convert an early 50's ch*vy 6 cyl from auto to stick. Unfortunately this bushing is no longer manufactured.
DO NOT drill the crank while it is installed in anything other than a lathe or mill. I had the crank in my car drilled at a machine shop and it is off a little. They spun the crank in the lathe with the cutter stationary. Apparently they did not get the crank located perfectly. I go through pilot bushings occasionally. I do not know about Mondello's no drill bearing, but there was another company (Super Cars Unlimited??) offering the same type of bearing set up also. This other company had you trim 3/8(?) of an inch off of the end of the input shaft of the tranny. That allows it to butt up to the end of the crank without binding. A very simple set up if you can determine the bearing you need to use. I would guess that you would have to trim the end of the input shaft to use Mondello's set up as well. I once attached a bell housing and four speed to the back of an auto type 455 and the tranny would not bolt up completely. It had a gap of about 3/8 between the tranny and bell housing because the tip of the input shaft had no place to go. I did this for storage of a non running engine in a car. It was easier to move in the car than on the floor.
Our pilot bearing adaptor allows the use of an "automatic" crankshaft with a manual transmission. Factory automatic cranks are not machined with the step required for a pilot bearing. And they lack the depth required for the manual transmissions input shaft. The adaptor bearing addresses these issues by using the torque converter ring of the crank for centering and mounting of the bearing.
A self-aligning ball bearing (Not a bushing) is encased in a hardened steel case that has a knurl on the outside that provides a VERY tight fit in the crankshaft. Installation only requires a hammer and a socket that fits the O.D. of the adaptor. As noted, the automatic crank also lacks the depth required for the manuals input shaft. To accommodate this depth, the input shaft must be shortened by approx. 1/4" to 3/8". This can be done with a hacksaw or a disc style grinder.
A common misconception with this modification is that it will somehow weaken the input shaft. Actually, it is quite the contrary. Because, the pilot bearing is now closer to the transmissions front bearing, this will reduce flex in the input shaft. Think of a piece of tubing, say, 10 feet long, supported at the ends. This will flex in the center more so than a piece of tubing 5 feet long. An alternative to cutting the end of the input shaft, is to drill the existing hole in the crank deeper, while using the adaptor to support the input shaft.
Another aspect of concern by some has been whether or not the torque converter ring on the crank provides adequate strength to support the adaptor. The example I always give is the case of race cars with a rear engine mount plate. The motor plate will space the bellhousing (scatter shield) back by the thickness of the plate. Which often requires a spacer in the crankshaft. These are very similar to our adaptor. Without sounding like I'm just trying to pimp our adaptors, I should mention that we sell a fair amount of these to "correct" pilot bearing holes that were not drilled DEAD CENTER in the crankshaft.
If you opt to have the crank drilled to accept the standard bearing or a bushing, make sure a competent shop handles the task. Performance oriented shops are your best bet. And of course, the crank will need to be out of the engine. The crank and transmission must be aligned by the pilot bearing. If this alignment is off, the results are a vibration that will lead to transmission damage. As well as main bearing damage.
http://www.mondellotwister.com/Transmission.htm
PB-460 Crankshaft Bushing
Similar to our PB-455, it is a sealed roller bearing that drives into the back of a stock Oldsmobile automatic crankshaft. This bearing converts your crankshaft into a 4 speed application. The bearing is self aligning to compensate for bellhousing and transmission misalignment about .010" to .015". You must shorten the tip of the input shaft so it won't bottom out in the crankshaft. On some models, the cranks are counterbored to accept the input shaft. This new unit can be driven into place with no machine work. This bearing assembly also fits any G.M. crankshaft in the converter locating hole and can be used when using a motor plate, transmission adapter, etc.. Fits all G.M. input shafts.
$69.00
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofcrk.htm
Pilot Bearing
The pilot bearing is a bearing [in this case a bushing- an after market quick/dirty fix] in the rear of the crankshaft, into which the [manual] trans pilot shaft fits. Serves to support the front end of the trans shaft. Only MT engines had pilot bearings. Since 90% of Olds engines were destined for AT use, most Olds cranks are not even drilled to accept a pilot bearing. So, spend another $80-100 to have the hole cut and buy the bearing if you have a manual trans.
I've used an auto crank with a stick tranny before. This is no big deal. You can have a bushing machined or buy the one Mondello sells. The bushing fits into the large recess that locates the convertor in the crank (where the torque converter hub would normally rest.).
You'll need to also do one of two thing; 1. Grind the input shaft of the manual tranny off so it is just long enough to reach the front of the "new" bushing. NOTE: If you do this the tranny will no longer work with a stick shift crank.
2. Drill a hole in the center of the crank a little larger than the input shaft to make room for the input shaft. NOTE: This hole will NOT locate the input shaft in the crank. The bushing does that.
The hole does not need to be drilled on a lathe. The recess in the crank is tapered so your starter bit will be located in the center. NOTE: make sure you drill the hole deep enough so that the input shaft will not bottom in the hole.
I've used an old bushing that was sold to convert an early 50's ch*vy 6 cyl from auto to stick. Unfortunately this bushing is no longer manufactured.
DO NOT drill the crank while it is installed in anything other than a lathe or mill. I had the crank in my car drilled at a machine shop and it is off a little. They spun the crank in the lathe with the cutter stationary. Apparently they did not get the crank located perfectly. I go through pilot bushings occasionally. I do not know about Mondello's no drill bearing, but there was another company (Super Cars Unlimited??) offering the same type of bearing set up also. This other company had you trim 3/8(?) of an inch off of the end of the input shaft of the tranny. That allows it to butt up to the end of the crank without binding. A very simple set up if you can determine the bearing you need to use. I would guess that you would have to trim the end of the input shaft to use Mondello's set up as well. I once attached a bell housing and four speed to the back of an auto type 455 and the tranny would not bolt up completely. It had a gap of about 3/8 between the tranny and bell housing because the tip of the input shaft had no place to go. I did this for storage of a non running engine in a car. It was easier to move in the car than on the floor.
Our pilot bearing adaptor allows the use of an "automatic" crankshaft with a manual transmission. Factory automatic cranks are not machined with the step required for a pilot bearing. And they lack the depth required for the manual transmissions input shaft. The adaptor bearing addresses these issues by using the torque converter ring of the crank for centering and mounting of the bearing.
A self-aligning ball bearing (Not a bushing) is encased in a hardened steel case that has a knurl on the outside that provides a VERY tight fit in the crankshaft. Installation only requires a hammer and a socket that fits the O.D. of the adaptor. As noted, the automatic crank also lacks the depth required for the manuals input shaft. To accommodate this depth, the input shaft must be shortened by approx. 1/4" to 3/8". This can be done with a hacksaw or a disc style grinder.
A common misconception with this modification is that it will somehow weaken the input shaft. Actually, it is quite the contrary. Because, the pilot bearing is now closer to the transmissions front bearing, this will reduce flex in the input shaft. Think of a piece of tubing, say, 10 feet long, supported at the ends. This will flex in the center more so than a piece of tubing 5 feet long. An alternative to cutting the end of the input shaft, is to drill the existing hole in the crank deeper, while using the adaptor to support the input shaft.
Another aspect of concern by some has been whether or not the torque converter ring on the crank provides adequate strength to support the adaptor. The example I always give is the case of race cars with a rear engine mount plate. The motor plate will space the bellhousing (scatter shield) back by the thickness of the plate. Which often requires a spacer in the crankshaft. These are very similar to our adaptor. Without sounding like I'm just trying to pimp our adaptors, I should mention that we sell a fair amount of these to "correct" pilot bearing holes that were not drilled DEAD CENTER in the crankshaft.
If you opt to have the crank drilled to accept the standard bearing or a bushing, make sure a competent shop handles the task. Performance oriented shops are your best bet. And of course, the crank will need to be out of the engine. The crank and transmission must be aligned by the pilot bearing. If this alignment is off, the results are a vibration that will lead to transmission damage. As well as main bearing damage.
http://www.mondellotwister.com/Transmission.htm
PB-460 Crankshaft Bushing
Similar to our PB-455, it is a sealed roller bearing that drives into the back of a stock Oldsmobile automatic crankshaft. This bearing converts your crankshaft into a 4 speed application. The bearing is self aligning to compensate for bellhousing and transmission misalignment about .010" to .015". You must shorten the tip of the input shaft so it won't bottom out in the crankshaft. On some models, the cranks are counterbored to accept the input shaft. This new unit can be driven into place with no machine work. This bearing assembly also fits any G.M. crankshaft in the converter locating hole and can be used when using a motor plate, transmission adapter, etc.. Fits all G.M. input shafts.
$69.00
February 15th, 2010, 04:43 PM
#9
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 198
I drill my cranks with the engine in the car using a tool i made out of steel plate and tubing. The tube ID is the same as the pilot bushing OD, that tube is welded at 90 degrees on the steel plate. The plate is drilled to mate to the bellhousing. With the bellhousing installed you bolt on the plate, index the centerline of the pipe with the dimple on the crank. Insert the bit and drill the depth of the pilot. Simple and effective, probable drilled 10 or 12 like this over the past 30 years with no problems.
February 23rd, 2010, 10:56 AM
#10
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 11
clutch linkage parts
damascus, I know a guy that got a complete (used original) pedal and linkage kit for a 70-ish Cutlass from Chicago Muscle Car Parts, 847-526-2200. I got the impression from him that they had a number of Olds A-bodies with manual tranny setups on hand, but that was a couple of years ago. You might give them a call and see.
http://www.classicmusclecarparts.net/
http://www.classicmusclecarparts.net/
February 23rd, 2010, 05:46 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 11
The Tremec TKO has internal shift linkage, and the shifter is on the centerline on top of the transmission. The shifter stub that you bolt the handle to is at about 19-1/2" back from the rear surface of the bellhousing, but you can unbolt the shifter and flip it 180 degrees, and that puts the shifter stub at about 16-1/2" from the back of the bell.
Uly49, what car do you have in mind? Keisler Engineering has custom shifters that put the shifter stub in the right spot for the 1964-1972 Cutlass/442, and it fits in the console fine, but you may have to modify the tunnel sheetmetal to get the TKO to fit.
Uly49, what car do you have in mind? Keisler Engineering has custom shifters that put the shifter stub in the right spot for the 1964-1972 Cutlass/442, and it fits in the console fine, but you may have to modify the tunnel sheetmetal to get the TKO to fit.
February 24th, 2010, 11:28 AM
#13
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Massillon, Ohio
Posts: 198
I used a B&M T-5 shifter on my olds, I made an aluminum bracket about 3/8" thick and about 1 1/4" wide that bolts to the shifter on the drivers side and to the hurst shifter handle on the passenger side this put the shifter in the perfect location.
I suggest marking on the floor board where neutral is on the existing transmission both vertically and horizontally this will allow you to fine tune the custom adapter to get the shifter into proper position.
This doesnt effect adversly affect how the shifter works and you can even tilt it back a bit to make it a little more comfortable to dive.
I suggest marking on the floor board where neutral is on the existing transmission both vertically and horizontally this will allow you to fine tune the custom adapter to get the shifter into proper position.
This doesnt effect adversly affect how the shifter works and you can even tilt it back a bit to make it a little more comfortable to dive.
February 28th, 2010, 09:26 AM
#15
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 73
great info. i've found everything that i need for the conversion. BOP bellhousing 9785581, the parts place and others have the pedal pieces, etc. now i just have to decide to throw a substantial amount of money into the Tremec conversion or sell the car and find a 4-speed car. hmmm. what to do???
August 20th, 2012, 07:25 PM
#18
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 88
Hey all! I should be getting my 461 back next week from the machinist and am still on the fence as far as a trans goes. Any recent input regarding th 5 speed install? I have a 4.10 rear and wanted to know if anyone had any experience with a similar axle ratio. Le me know, Vin
October 19th, 2012, 03:32 PM
#21
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John
October 19th, 2012, 04:41 PM
#22
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Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 904
Yes Tremec makes the T5 used in GM small V8s, 6 and 4 cylinders, also A LOT in 5.0 mustangs. There are companies that make upgraded cases, even square cut gear.
Tremec also makes a 5 speed based of the 3550 design. This has been adapted for GM cars with the TKOs in the aftermarket.
I think most referring to a Tremec 5 speed are talking about the TKO kits sold aftermarket.
Keisler is now selling a variation of the Mustang T45 trans adapted for GM.
Tremec also makes a 5 speed based of the 3550 design. This has been adapted for GM cars with the TKOs in the aftermarket.
I think most referring to a Tremec 5 speed are talking about the TKO kits sold aftermarket.
Keisler is now selling a variation of the Mustang T45 trans adapted for GM.
October 25th, 2012, 08:06 AM
#25
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Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,591
Tunnel mods are required for anything other than the T-5. TKO, T-56 etc all need them, unless you go Keisler fitted model, as I've understood it.
Do you know which Fords? All the way until they hit the TKO-500/600 series in 2004?
Do you know which Fords? All the way until they hit the TKO-500/600 series in 2004?
October 25th, 2012, 08:25 AM
#26
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 904
A T5 is pretty small and should fit without mods. Maybe to the shifter location. I've got a Richmond 6 speed in my 68 vette. I've seen other A bodies with them, no mods needed. Although I've heard the funky shifter that exits the stock location wont work with a console.
Sorry, not sure which fords got the 3550s. I'm more a GM guy. But not many cars came with manuals, so my guess would be the Mustangs.
Sorry, not sure which fords got the 3550s. I'm more a GM guy. But not many cars came with manuals, so my guess would be the Mustangs.
October 25th, 2012, 08:32 AM
#27
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Location: Denmark
Posts: 1,591
The reason I'm asking is that a TKO is expensive due to them being aftermarket, and I'll make more like 400 ft-lbs than 500 or 600, thus making it slightly overkill. As far as I know and have been told, a T-5 can't be made to last behind a SBO, but what 1964f-85's claims tells me differently. T-5s are definitely around over here, cheaply too.
October 25th, 2012, 08:39 AM
#28
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T5s came in several variations. But even the best were only rated at about 300-325 ft/lbs (2.95 1st gear) and never came with anything bigger than a 5.0L engine. So forget about the T5 with big torque.
Sorry, no economical 5 speeds that will fit an unmodified tunnel that will handle a lot of power.
Sorry, no economical 5 speeds that will fit an unmodified tunnel that will handle a lot of power.
October 25th, 2012, 08:51 AM
#30
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T56s are relatively inexpensive here. An LT1 T56 from a 94-97 F body might be an alternative. Some kind of adapter or bellhousing would be required though.
If you do go T5, the Mustang Z specs are the strongest. You can swap a 26 spline GM input shaft if it's the same ratio (2.95) and both are WC. There are quite a few companies here that sell upgraded gears, housings, etc. But if you do that, you'll probably be getting close to the cost of a TKO.
If you do go T5, the Mustang Z specs are the strongest. You can swap a 26 spline GM input shaft if it's the same ratio (2.95) and both are WC. There are quite a few companies here that sell upgraded gears, housings, etc. But if you do that, you'll probably be getting close to the cost of a TKO.
People know what to charge, and people with no alternatives gladly pay.
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