yzzerdd

Alright, I've got a 1983 Olds Custom Cruiser. The transmission was rebuilt in 2007, with reciepts. When I got it, I noticed if I manually shifted to 1st or 2nd, it grinded and barely moved. So naturally, I never did that again. I don't race the car at all, and noticed some problems last night. I came home late, and when I put it in reverse backing into the driveway, I noticed it kept clunking. It was going back fine, but it would stop then start roughly. Thought nothing of it and went to bed. This morning, I go for a drive. It drives fine, until I get it up to speed going down hill. Seems like it's in neutral, except for a whirring I hear, I think from the back. I U-turn, and as I try to get it going up hill from a stop, it wont move. I put the pedal to the floor, and it surpsingly spun the tires(barely) and after I let up I was able to get the 1/4 mile home. Reverse is fine. My speedo also stopped working. Another odd symptom--When it wont drive forward, if I put it in park, it seems like it's in neutral, and tries to roll off. Strange.

Ideas? I just scored a job after 9 months of looking, and I need this thing running very soon. I don't know the specifics of the trans. I know my car has a 307 V8 and that the factory 4-speed trans was reconditioned a few years ago.

--Ryan

yzzerdd

I looked into it earlier today, and my wagon has a 200R4 transmission. I'll admit I don't know much at all about transmissions and their components, I do know a little bit though. I know a good amount about engines, wiring, that sort of thing, but I've never had to do transmission work. What do ya'll think? To me, and from what I've read, it sounds like the trans shop that rebuilt it did a shoddy job.

--Ryan

dan2286

Something internally probably broke if you don't have park. I am sorry to say that the trans will probably need to come out and be rebuilt or replaced with a different one. If I were you, I would try to find a working used trans to get into the car for right now and have yours rebuilt when you get the time.

Being a 200-4R, did you have the t.v. cable hooked up? It runs from the carb linkage to the trans. If that is not adjusted properly, it will kill the trans. I don't think it was the cause of the problem in this case, because it would not cause park to fail, but it is something you want to make sure is there. Also, how did the car shift before this. firm or soft?

Good luck.

Olds64

I agree with Dan. The most you can do is swap out a filter and pan gakset to see what condition the fluid is in. If there is metal in the fluid you are SOL. You also want to make sure you have the proper fluid level in the transmission. From what you described your best bet would be to put a used transmission in it, instead of beating your head against a wall troubleshooting the one in it now.

yzzerdd

Yeah, the fluid level is fine according to the dipstick. I intend to check out the filter and pan though....There should be a magnet in the bottom of the pan, right? I really really really doubt it's the filter. As a matter of fact, I'm sure. But I want to at least investigate what I can. I think it was a shoddy job at the shop. I was doing some reading about Transmission Masters in TX, and boy are they known for scams.

The car was always pretty smooth shifting. There are a few things that bothered me, though. Between 1st and 2nd, it seemed like it took awhile to shift, a delay of about 2 seconds. If I manually shifted to 1st or 2nd, the car barely moved and there was this horrid metal grinding sound from the rearend. Finally, while the car was idling, there was always this weird clunking/gurgle from the trans area. I don't think it was exhaust rattle, from what I observed while I was under the car changing the oil and checking stuff out.

I've found cheap 700-4R transmissions on CL...no 200-4R transmissions, though. From what I've read, I can just bolt up a 700-4R without modification to anything, right? I didn't research very far into it, as most of what I saw was people going the other direction for closer gearing or something like that.

--Ryan

Olds64

You won't be able to bolt a 700 R4 to your Olds engine. The 200 4R has a BOP bellhousing on it while the 700 R4 is designed to bolt to a Chevy motor. You can get an adapter plate; however, it would be easier to just find a salvage 200 4R and put it in your car.

yzzerdd

I see. Well I found a 200-R4 (or is it 200-4R? I've seen it both ways) on Craigslist with a motor for $250, or sell seperately. Whats odd though, is that the motor, a Buick 231, is a V6....I did not know that the trans could be interchanged between the V8 and V6...hmm. Reguardless, it's from an '86. Comes with torque converter, but the trans has 105K. Thats a bit high, considering mine went out at either 97,000 or 197,000. If mine went out at 197,100 then I suppose that used one has some life left in it. Being a different year, theoretically, will I run in to any issues? I say theoretically, because it's hard to tell with these old cars. Things usually aren't exactly how they should be.

Gee, it sure is going to be fun figuring out bolting in this transmission, especially seems I'd be using a floor jack. My dad tells me that some cars are difficult to chage a transmission on unless you remove the engine. Should I (theoretically) have an issue here?

Thanks for ya'lls patience.

--Ryan
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/pts/1456130019.html

geckonz08

GLAD you found a trans (200-4r ) Might even be able to sell the 6 and recoup a dollar or two .At least you have your job to-ing and fro-ing covered .
Don`t know that they all came with a pan magnet .I couldn`t find one in mine
mike

Olds64

I don't believe the 200 4R came stock with a pan magnet.

Removing the transmission shouldn't be too difficult. It will just be a PITA since you will have to lift the car and lie on your back to do everything (unless of course you have access to a lift).

I'm not sure. If I were in your shoes I would find a slavage yard with a 200 4R out of a station wagon similar to yours. There should be about 1/2 a million mid 80s station wagons with a 200 4R in Dallas, TX.

yzzerdd

Uggggh, I decided if I can get the trans in this one out, without damage, I could probably put one in. Jacked it up and supported on jackstands. It really really looks like something that is not necessarily over my head for ability (disconnect various cables, unbolt a bunch of bolts, remove a thing or two), but is definately something requiring more tools than what I have. I might-could-possibly do it with what I've got, but not with any amount of ease. Anyone in DFW know of a reputable transmission shop that would simply remove this trans and install a used one that I provide? The only place in the area I found with positive reviews won't do it.

If I can find someplace, then I'll likely sell off some electronics and whatnot and have the car towed there. 105K transmission will be a gamble on how long it'll last, but would be worth it if I get a year out of it.

--Ryan

68conv455

Assuming you don't have a lift:

The car needs to be high enough to get the old tans out and the new in. If you don't have the car high enough, you will quikly find out that the old trans will not slide out from under the car because of clearnace issues.
You should also have a buddy on hand. The trans will need to be steadied on the jack when you lower it from the car. When you install the replacement, you and your buddy will need to get the trans on the jack while you are under the car. (unless your car is propped up really high allowing the extra clearance to roll the trans under the car while it is steadied on the jack.

dan2286

It really doesn't take many tools to get one out. As long as you have some long extensions and swivel sockets to get to some of the harder bell housing bolts out, you should be good. You just need to make sure you can get the car up high enough to be able to get the trans on the jack and get it under the car. Use a piece of wood on the jack to help prevent damage, and try to tie the trans to the jack somehow.

Believe it or not, I was able to pull a trans at the junk yard with basic hand tools and no jack.

yzzerdd

Well I may have taken a huge step backwards. I found a trans and can get it for $100. Where I live, if the city notices you've been parked in the same spot for over 24 hours, EVEN ON THE STREET IN FRONT OF YOUR HOUSE, they will chalk lines where you parked and if the car doesn't move within 24 hours, you'll get a notice saying if you do not prove the vehicle to be in operating condition, within a week, it will be towed and you will be fined. So naturally, I cannot put it on jackstands for a few days so I can work on it in my spare time, if in the street.

Well I've got reverse, right? So just back it into the garage and work on it in there. No problem. I get halfway up the driveway and the car is slowing down, barely moving. Well, better get it in before reverse goes, too, I think to myself as I give it much more gas to get it going. Almost in, I get a grinding from the back end. Too late to stop now, if something else breaks before it gets into the garage, it's gonna be towed into the shop. I decide against flooring it, as I don't want to screw more up, so I continue easing it in to the garage. I then get this godawful screaming, shredding, and grinding from the transmission. Well dang. In park I now hear metal clanking around in the transmission. Rolled it back into the street. Guess now I get to work on it there.

Here's to hoping the city doesn't notice. I suppose if I lower it, hide the jackstands, and move it a few inches after working on it each day, I'll be fine.

--Ryan

Olds64

Just use some Simple Green and scrub the chalk marks off of the concrete!

Either that or get a buddy to help you push it into the garage. I've pushed my 71 Olds 98 halfway up my driveway before in neutral with my wife steering and my buddy and I pushing. It wasn't easy but we got it done (the driveway has a gentle grade to it).

FWIW, I've removed a transmission numerous times and I usually use a block of wood between the floor jack and transmission like others have said. Once I get the transmission disconnected I lower the floor jack and push the transmission off of the floor jack onto a piece of carboard. Then I "scoot" the transmission out from under the car. This will save you 3 to 4 inches.

yzzerdd

I think the steep grade of my driveway would be a bit too much. Anyhow, made lots of progress today. I've done everything I need to do (scooted rear support back, disconnected stuff, etc etc) and now all I've got left is to undo one bolt(hard to get to, passenger side) and I'll be able to drop the transmission enough so I can get the cooler lines off. Need to get a flare nut wrench set, though.

I had to stop work at 4PM today, after starting at 10. Rain came, and it sprinkled for like 5 seconds then poured until dark. Oh well. I've got the vehicle on jackstands and transmission supported as well. After school, I'll have two hours to work on the car then I'll have to get ready for work. I should at LEAST get the transmission dropped and the new(used) one positioned where it needs to be for the bolts, etc. Making progress, thats for sure.

--Ryan

Olds64

Good to hear that it is going well. Keep us posted.

yzzerdd

Any advice guys? I've got the transmission bolts removed, torque-converter to flywheel bolts removed, and the rear support is out of the equation, as it's been removed. The engine is supported and the trans isn't coming down much. Should I remove the driveshaft so I can slide the transmission backwards off the flywheel/engine assembly?

--Ryan

68conv455

The back of the engine has some guide pins on it.
The trans will not come down until it is backed off the pins.
If you try to force it, you will break the case.
I always pull the driveshaft.
Not sure if you can get the trans out easily without.

yzzerdd

Yes, I noticed guide pins. This is turning to be a real hassle. ONE bolt left and this sucker is dropped. I missed the two lower bolts. One of them is very difficult and will require the removal of the catalytic converter to remove. They sure don't make this easy.

--Ryan

Olds64

I would remove the driveshaft. You can get a plug at the local auto parts store to fit in the rear of the transmission that will prevent fluid from leaking all over the place. You also might try to loosening the exhaust at the manifolds so you can drop the exhaust a few inches. This would be easier than cutting the catalytic converter out of the exhaust.

yzzerdd

Yes, I removed the driveshaft. I took a nice cold shower in transmission fluid, too. I'm going to get some PB blaster and see what I can do with the exhaust manifold tomorrow, as I have to work tonight.

Thanks,

--Ryan

yzzerdd

Gaaah the process has been long and grueling. I got the old trans out and new trans in. Bolted up to the front, driveshaft in, all connections, etc. Should be theoretically driveable. But there is one thing that is the problem. I can't get the dang transmission support back in! My dad had me take it out and it is absolutely not going back in. Tried every combo of positions and orientations possible, no luck yet. Even been trying to force it with a jack, with leverage, etc. No go. What to do? The city is fining me $200 tomorrow if it's not moved. And towing it Tuesday at 8AM!

What do ya'll reckon I might be able to do in order to get this support in? Or maybe I could make my own support with a thick and wide pieice of wood going all the way across? It just needs to hold the rear of the transmission up to keep everything from falling down. Running out of ideas here.

--Ryan

68conv455

I assume you've already tried tilting the engine/trans assembly (as it is now pivoting on the engine mounts) and still can't get it in.
If that is the case, and you're stuck for now. Get the car moved.
Ask your neighbor if you can park in their driveway for the day if yours is too steep and push it over. Use yours or a neighbors lawn if you have to. Don't let the lame town charge you one cent.

If there are absolutely no options with the neighbors, I'm sure wood (or a variety of other home remedies) would work to get the car moved into your driveway, or garage, or your lawn.

yzzerdd

Well I got it in and got the car in the driveway. Pushed with an Explorer. Turns out the trans isn't an exact fit. The support holes and rear transmission bolt hole are pretty far from coming together. Hm. I may have a piece of metal welded onto the transmission mount to extend the piece, then drill a hole and bolt it up.

--Ryan

Olds64

I would be reluctant to modify the bellhousing of your transmission. Are you sure the torque converter and input shaft to the transmission are seated properly? This could cause the transmission to be a few inches away from the engine. Or are you experiencing that the bolt holes actually don't line up between the engine and transmission?

yzzerdd

I reckon either I mis-typed or you mis-read. The bellhousing bolts, guides, etc all line up perfectly. I've got all that bolted up on the front. On the very back of the transmission, right by the spedometer cable, there is supposed to be a transmission mounting bar going all the way across the car. It bolts up to the frame and keeps the rear of the transmission from dropping out or going side-to-side. The transmission I had before was a perfect fit front and back. But this transmission, from an 86 Buick Regal, while it does fit the front nicely, doesn't fit the back. Everything goes together like it should except the transmission mounting bolts for the support bar.

The support bar, as previously mentioned, bolts to the frame. Then there is a tongue that comes out and bolts to the transmission. The new transmission I put in has the bolt holes about 3-5 inches closer to the front than the old transmission. So, couldn't I, theoretically, have a piece of metal welded on to extend the tongue of the transmission support bar? I could then drill a hole in the newly welded metal and bolt it up to the transmission, thusly solving my problem.

Everything hooks up perfectly EXCEPT the support bar. Once I get that on, the car will be driveable assuming the transmission is in working order. "Park" works on this one, so it's at least one step better than the old transmission. I'm going to go to Jerry's Muffler and Under Car specialists today. He's a good guy and I've had a few cars worked on by him(exhaust work). They do welding and fabrication, too, so I think I'll be able to get a fair price and quality work done by taking by support bar and measurements there. I'd do it myself if I had a welder.

--Ryan

Olds64

Oh...

Does the transmission crossmember unbolt from the frame with multiple mounting locations? Perhaps you just have to move it to the forward mounting location.

dan2286

I think I know why you are having a problem because I may have had the same problem when trying to take one out at the junkyard. The problem I was having is that I could not get the crossmember out because of the stud/bolt that comes out of the trans mount and bolts to the crossmember was not letting the crossmember slide out. I would think the solution would be to bolt the mount to the crossmember first, then slide it in. It should go in since there will be no stud in the way of getting the crossmember in.

68conv455

I've never heard of 2004R's with case dimensional differences.
Olds 64 may be onto something.
I'd take a measuring tape and go from the front face of the bell housing to the center of the trans case bolt holes on the old trans (where the trans mount goes), then do the same for the new.
This quick check will tell you if it is the trans or something else.

Could the front of the cross member be facing the rear of the vehicle?

yzzerdd

No, I'm positive I've got the crossmember in correctly. The 200-R4 doesn't have different dimensions, just one different bolt hole. There is only one spot on the frame I can possibly bolt the crossmember. I got the crossmember in just fine. This week I'm taking it back out and getting the tongue extended. I'm sure it'll work alright. I appreciate all the help and advice.

--Ryan

yzzerdd

An update!

I got the crossmember extended and it fit beautifully. The problem was, I had the crossmember wrong. I thought the dip went under the exhaust. Turns out, I was supposed to flip the crossmember and have it go over the exhaust.

Anyhow, got everything nice and bolted up, looking decent. But, I had a leak(very bad) in the cooler line. Cross-threaded. I fixed it today but there is still a small leak. So I'm getting back under tomorrow after school and seeing if I can tighten it any more with some leverage.

Haven't been able to work on the car on account of the weather. It's been cold and raining lately. 20s at night, 40s in the day the last few. Anyhow, finally a sunny day matched up with one of my days off, and tomorrow should be the same. Looks like I might have this fixed tomorrow before dinner.

--Ryan

Olds64

Good deal. Keep us posted.