hydraulic clutch in a 68??
May 5th, 2014, 10:39 PM
#41
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carstairs, Alberta
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I have my m-20 4 speed in the car, I'm hoping to have my car back together and running this week. What gear oil do you guys recommend running in the muncie? an 80w90 or a synthetic? Thanks
May 17th, 2014, 08:16 AM
#45
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Location: Carstairs, Alberta
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Well I finally got the M20 4 speed installed in the car with the hydraulic clutch from american power train. I'm using a OEM bell housing with a Mcleod pressure plate and organic disc. A few speed bumps along the way, but she runs and drives. The gear spacing seems to work well with a 3.55 rear gear. With this setup I had to shim the trans back from the bell housing .125" to have enough clearance for the hyd. clutch. I don't think this is an issue with an aftermarket bell? The OEM bell doesn't have a lot of room for the Hydraulic throw out bearing. Thanks for all the help with this project!!
May 27th, 2014, 09:31 PM
#46
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Well, not happy with the hyd. clutch. The pedal travel is maybe 4.5" at the most. There are things that could be done to change the pedal ratio but I think I am going to try the mechanical linkage instead. I have a kit from the parts place, z bar, linkage, clutch fork. More pissing around, but hopefully it all comes together soon!
July 11th, 2015, 06:28 PM
#48
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I had nothing but problems with the hydraulic clutch. It seemed to me that maybe it didn't match the pressure plate? I think the pressure plate movement was more than was available with the hydraulic throw out bearing as it was leaking and I never resolved that problem. The pedal needed a ton of foot pressure to push in and travel was about 4 to 4.5" total. It is possible to change the location of the master cylinder or the location on the pedal where the linkage bolts on but IMO this set up was not engineered properly and I was tired of messing with it. I was not impressed at all. I had the parts needed to do the mechanical linkage from the parts place. It all went in good, I did have to build a bracket for the stud on the block for the Z bar and ended up modifying the bracket that goes on the frame for the Z bar, otherwise it all went together good. Overall it works great with the mechanical linkage. If I was to do it again I would go with mechanical linkage. Although there may be other hydraulic clutches that are engineered better than the one I used!
July 12th, 2015, 01:19 AM
#49
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Posts: 135
Well I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your hyd. setup. Something doesn't sound right though. You shouldn't have to shim out the trans 1/8". That'll move the pilot bearing contact and the bearing retainer out by that much.....not good. Hard on the "ears" on the case as well.
If the kit you bought is the one I was looking at Summit (American Powertrain), then I can see why it MAY be an issue. That slave cylinder is designed to be a "one size fits all" type deal, as it lists a Muncie/T10/TKO, etc. TOO generic. Mine is trans. specific, as you have to remove and replace the front bearing retainer with the hyd. slave cyl, not just "bolt it to the front". Also, if you were having a leaking issue, then I would have returned it, as there is something wrong with it. (You didn't use the wrong type fluid, did you, DOT 5 is a no-no). My pedal stroke is perfect, just like if it was factory mech., is easy to push and hold, even with a high static pressure clutch, and smooth as butter. I'd try to return it to Summit, as their return policy is pretty forgiving.
If the kit you bought is the one I was looking at Summit (American Powertrain), then I can see why it MAY be an issue. That slave cylinder is designed to be a "one size fits all" type deal, as it lists a Muncie/T10/TKO, etc. TOO generic. Mine is trans. specific, as you have to remove and replace the front bearing retainer with the hyd. slave cyl, not just "bolt it to the front". Also, if you were having a leaking issue, then I would have returned it, as there is something wrong with it. (You didn't use the wrong type fluid, did you, DOT 5 is a no-no). My pedal stroke is perfect, just like if it was factory mech., is easy to push and hold, even with a high static pressure clutch, and smooth as butter. I'd try to return it to Summit, as their return policy is pretty forgiving.
July 12th, 2015, 05:48 AM
#50
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Newtown CT
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Well I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your hyd. setup. Something doesn't sound right though. You shouldn't have to shim out the trans 1/8". That'll move the pilot bearing contact and the bearing retainer out by that much.....not good. Hard on the "ears" on the case as well.
If the kit you bought is the one I was looking at Summit (American Powertrain), then I can see why it MAY be an issue. That slave cylinder is designed to be a "one size fits all" type deal, as it lists a Muncie/T10/TKO, etc. TOO generic. Mine is trans. specific, as you have to remove and replace the front bearing retainer with the hyd. slave cyl, not just "bolt it to the front". Also, if you were having a leaking issue, then I would have returned it, as there is something wrong with it. (You didn't use the wrong type fluid, did you, DOT 5 is a no-no). My pedal stroke is perfect, just like if it was factory mech., is easy to push and hold, even with a high static pressure clutch, and smooth as butter. I'd try to return it to Summit, as their return policy is pretty forgiving.
If the kit you bought is the one I was looking at Summit (American Powertrain), then I can see why it MAY be an issue. That slave cylinder is designed to be a "one size fits all" type deal, as it lists a Muncie/T10/TKO, etc. TOO generic. Mine is trans. specific, as you have to remove and replace the front bearing retainer with the hyd. slave cyl, not just "bolt it to the front". Also, if you were having a leaking issue, then I would have returned it, as there is something wrong with it. (You didn't use the wrong type fluid, did you, DOT 5 is a no-no). My pedal stroke is perfect, just like if it was factory mech., is easy to push and hold, even with a high static pressure clutch, and smooth as butter. I'd try to return it to Summit, as their return policy is pretty forgiving.
Any tips or things to make it go together smoothly?
George
July 12th, 2015, 06:32 AM
#51
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Carstairs, Alberta
Posts: 215
Well I'm sorry you had a bad experience with your hyd. setup. Something doesn't sound right though. You shouldn't have to shim out the trans 1/8". That'll move the pilot bearing contact and the bearing retainer out by that much.....not good. Hard on the "ears" on the case as well.
If the kit you bought is the one I was looking at Summit (American Powertrain), then I can see why it MAY be an issue. That slave cylinder is designed to be a "one size fits all" type deal, as it lists a Muncie/T10/TKO, etc. TOO generic. Mine is trans. specific, as you have to remove and replace the front bearing retainer with the hyd. slave cyl, not just "bolt it to the front". Also, if you were having a leaking issue, then I would have returned it, as there is something wrong with it. (You didn't use the wrong type fluid, did you, DOT 5 is a no-no). My pedal stroke is perfect, just like if it was factory mech., is easy to push and hold, even with a high static pressure clutch, and smooth as butter. I'd try to return it to Summit, as their return policy is pretty forgiving.
If the kit you bought is the one I was looking at Summit (American Powertrain), then I can see why it MAY be an issue. That slave cylinder is designed to be a "one size fits all" type deal, as it lists a Muncie/T10/TKO, etc. TOO generic. Mine is trans. specific, as you have to remove and replace the front bearing retainer with the hyd. slave cyl, not just "bolt it to the front". Also, if you were having a leaking issue, then I would have returned it, as there is something wrong with it. (You didn't use the wrong type fluid, did you, DOT 5 is a no-no). My pedal stroke is perfect, just like if it was factory mech., is easy to push and hold, even with a high static pressure clutch, and smooth as butter. I'd try to return it to Summit, as their return policy is pretty forgiving.
July 12th, 2015, 05:03 PM
#52
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: Newtown CT
Posts: 221
The one I used was American Powertrain and my thoughts were it is a one size fits some, its generic and why it didn't work well IMO. I shimmed the trans back less and less as I was having issues with leaks. I probably could have got it working, but was frustrated and tired of messing with it. The mechanical set up was installed once with no issues aside from adjusting free play on the clutch fork. I think there are better hydraulic set ups out there, I was not happy with this one.
George
July 12th, 2015, 05:04 PM
#53
I have a ram hydraulic throw out bearing, for Muncie/Saginaw. It all works well but I used a master cylinder that is not quite big enough and doesn't fully disengage my clutch so I'll have to upgrade. Other than that all seems well
July 14th, 2015, 12:34 AM
#54
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 135
I used the Keisler setup(in 2009,from before they went bust). There is some minor linkage issues with the pedal connection to the mc, as the kit was designed for a Chebby pedal setup which is slightly different than Olds'. Other than a few MINOR mods I needed to do with that, it went flawlessly. Bled easily, no leaks, pleasure to drive. Well worth the cost IMO.
Greg
Greg
October 2nd, 2015, 09:43 AM
#55
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 1,459
I had nothing but problems with the hydraulic clutch. It seemed to me that maybe it didn't match the pressure plate? I think the pressure plate movement was more than was available with the hydraulic throw out bearing as it was leaking and I never resolved that problem. The pedal needed a ton of foot pressure to push in and travel was about 4 to 4.5" total. It is possible to change the location of the master cylinder or the location on the pedal where the linkage bolts on but IMO this set up was not engineered properly and I was tired of messing with it. I was not impressed at all. I had the parts needed to do the mechanical linkage from the parts place. It all went in good, I did have to build a bracket for the stud on the block for the Z bar and ended up modifying the bracket that goes on the frame for the Z bar, otherwise it all went together good. Overall it works great with the mechanical linkage. If I was to do it again I would go with mechanical linkage. Although there may be other hydraulic clutches that are engineered better than the one I used!
Do you have a picture of the bracket you made and installed for the pivot ball? My engine builder just informed me that the block he is using on my new build is not drilled for the ball and I'll need to make a bracket or go hydraulic.
Thanks, Rick
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