Good day all!

Over the winter, I'm planning on replacing the carpet in the interior of my '66 Toronado and I'm just starting to make a plan on how to attack it and am looking for some advice and experience. It looks fairly straightforward except for the drivers side mat & pan which will have to be removed to pull the carpet. Mine appears to be in decent shape so I'd love to keep it stock, but the method to remove it isn't clear to me. Maybe someone has done this before?

I think the black pan underneath the rubber mat is screwed to the floor and the trim around it is riveted to the pan itself? So I'm thinking to pull the pan out, you have to knock out the rivets to remove the trim and then locate the screws and remove the pan. Maybe you can skip driving out the rivets and just unscrew the pan? It's hard to say. I can't even tell where the screws are honestly. Is it the black pan a painted piece of sheetmetal which is screwed to the floor or something?

Has anyone done this before? Any advice? I've noticed that in other restorations where it appears the carpet has been replaced, the owner didn't put the pan back in and just left it bare.....not sure why this is so common so it makes me think there's more to it than meets the eye. I've attached a few pictures below of my pan along with some pics I've found of restorations where the floor is shown bare.

Thanks!





Not mine - a pic for reference

 

It's been a while since I tackled this project, but I'll offer as much as I remember. In a way, removal of the pan will be your guide for its re-installation.

You're right that those 2 "rails" on the floor are the points where the pan is secured. The rivets holding the polished aluminum trim can stay intact unless you're repainting the pan or want to do an extensive polishing of the trim. The pan is held in place by 4 or so Phillips head screws on the bottom, plus 1 up sort of under the accelerator pedal - by the way, if you slide the seat all the way back, that creates additional room to get the pan out and then back in. Lastly, the rubber "buttons" on the bottom of the mat hold the mat in place in the pan. Also, I'm noticing the bubbling on the bottom of the pan, quite possibly indicating moisture trapped between the body floor and the pan, and the question is, where is that coming from? Obviously, that problem should be corrected.
For re-installation, Fusick has reproduction mats that look superb. The mat with its buttons is installed to the pan before installation - it's difficult/impossible to seat a button once the pan is installed. So, with the mat installed, you must carefully pre-position the pan in place and then carefully lift just the edges of the mat to allow you to screw in the Phillips screws through the carpet into the rails underneath. As I think about it, I think there are cut-outs in the carpet for direct access to the rails.
If ever necessary, everything can be undone to remove and re-install the pan, but ideally you do it only once.
If I missed something, maybe others can chime in - good luck.

 

I can't thank you enough for this reply! Some great information here.

Yes, I too am concerned about the corrosion going on under the pan. Hopefully it will clean up. I've been under the car a lot and I don't see any terrible rust under there on the bottom of the floors so hopefully I can touch it up from above. If not, maybe I'll have to get some repairs done, will have to see. For a car that was stored in the winter every year, there's still sure a lot of rust!

I'm probably going to have to chuck whatever padding is laid beneath the carpet. What do people generally use when they replace that stuff anyway? Anyone know?

 

I'm reviving this thread as I'm in a similar predicament where I need to remove this floor mat and pan for repairs underneath, as well as a steering column replacement. As I read above, I'm understanding that the rubber mat on top is "pinned" to the metal plate by rubber buttons, and from reading I also understand that the screws holding the assembly to the floor are UNDER the rubber mat, requiring the folding back of the upper mat to access them. Am I understanding that correctly? I also see written above that there may be some connection points outside of the metal backing plate under the carpet? The issue for me is that my rubber mat is HARD and shows zero flexibility or any semblance of movement away from the metal backing plate. I cannot get a putty knife under an edge, or get the mat to separate in any way from the metal plate. Suggestions? As far as I know the mat was removed at some point in the past and glued down. There are signs that the column has been removed before, and the flange is underneath this mat, but I'm scared of damaging a super nice original piece. I believe there are reproductions made in black, but I'd rather not have to go that route. Am I missing something on the removal process? Can this assembly be removed with the rubber mat in place? Or does the mat have to come off first? If that's the case, where are the little rubber attaching buttons located so I can plan on breaking them off? I really hate to even do this, but the column has to come out and there is a rust hole underneath that must be addressed. Thanks in advance for any clarity and explanation if I'm understanding any of this wrong...!!!

 

First, you have a very nice original red mat, apparently correct for 1967 Toro. You say the mat is hard and you can't lift it up at all even on the edges, so it must have been glued down in place as you suspect. To replace the carpet, you've got to do whatever is necessary to remove pan and mat, probably meaning destroying the mat in the process. Having said that, the Fusick reproduction piece is only available in black, and its 1966 ribbing pattern is different from your 1967. Also, I would like to think the physical pans (and mounting holes) are the same for 66 and 67 to allow use of 66 mat for both years, but I'm unable to verify.
Before proceeding, let me again state that my actual experience is with 1966, and I'm assuming there might be no or possibly minimal differences for 1967. To reiterate, the rubber mat is secured in place with extruded rubber "buttons" on the underside that are pushed through matching holes in the pan - I'm not certain of Fusick reproduction, but I think it has rubber studs that are inserted in pan holes, that are then secured with push-on locking washers. So, the mat and pan are secured to one another before mounting to floor of car - park it in position, and then carefully lift up edges of mat just enough to gain access for screws and probably wait to tighten until after all screws are first started and pan is definitely situated in final position. Backing up, there is no need to separate polished trim piece from the pan unless you need to for purposes of repainting, etc.
You ask as to location of mounting points - I can't help with specifics, but I think they are all toward edges, maybe about 1.5 inches in - maybe refer to earlier pictures on this post. Including the corner mounting points, maybe 3 per side. As to steering column interplay, all I can offer is that I've dropped the steering column several times without having to do anything with the driver's floor pan - if it looks to be an issue, maybe cover the column to protect it with multiple layers of tape, sheet rubber, etc. Good luck.

 

According to the parts catalog, '66 and '67 are different. The cover part numbers are different between '66 and '67, the molding part numbers are different between '66 & '67, the black mat and the rivets were only used for '66. I suspect the '67 cover has the mat integrated with it, which is why you can't remove it and feel that it may be glued. I'm guessing the '67 molding has studs that go through the floor. There are no nuts or retainers for the molding listed in the cover group for '67.

 

Thanks for correcting me on my assumptions - it never occurred to me that such significant changes would occur in just 1 year. I don't know how fast it occurred, but knowing how the 1966 mats would shrink and deform, a design change was definitely in order. It will be interesting to see how the 1967 Toro owner will be able to deal with his issues.

 

Not sure if this helps, but I can confirm that a heat gun will soften / melt the carpet backing. I don't have a Toro, but have used the heat gun method to wrap a '66 Starfire carpet to contours around the console.

Just thinking that if softening the carpet may help you all remove and retain the factory mats, that might an approach which you could try. I gave up my '66 big car factory mats long, long ago and have been o.k. with the ACC generic replacements since then. As covered by Fusick reproduction rubber mats. I.e., I don't see the half-*ssed stuff ACC sews into GM carpets since it's buried under rubber mats.

If it were me with the Toro and those unique rubber/aluminum pieces, I'd polish the aluminum to get it shiny since it's something you'll see every time you get in the car. To get there I'd remove the rubber if possible, but with rubber this age, as glued, riveted and what not to the underlying pan, I'd be terrified of tearing the irreplaceable rubber. Especially if it's factory red.

If you get this deep into carpets, consider noise reduction underlayment like Dynamat and Dynaliner. Or similar. Eliminating floor pan road noise in these cars helps a lot. On my '66 Starfire I scraped off the factory cardboard garbage on the underside of the roof (took 2 days or so) and replaced it with Dynamat. That helped reduce noise too, but it's a fairly big job.

Cheers
Chris

 

I appreciate everyone's input here, and THANK YOU. Under the front left corner I can see a loose screw that has pulled through the floor pan, about an inch and a half in from the aluminum trim, so I have an idea that the mat may be attached to the floor in a similar manner as the '66. However, the '67 ASM doesn't show the rubber mat, but shows the aluminum trim tabs randomly bent outwards with a screw attaching them to the floor. Interestingly enough, it only shows one screw attached this way in the diagram, but indicates you need 6. There is no mention/showing of screws attaching the larger plate to the floor pan under the rubber mat. I'm going to grab a few local Olds guys in the next few days to take a good look and determine the best way to address this. Maybe popping the whole metal pan off the floor screw by screw would work and then figure out the best way to separate the rubber mat (or figure how to reattach the assembly) when it's out of the car. Maybe a closer look under the car will show screws coming through the floor pan. The issue with the steering column is that the hardened mat overlaps the bottom two attaching bolts to the firewall, so this carpet has got to come out for me to get my last few projects completed. I'll document the steps I take with this and maybe we can figure a step by step method to save these original pans and mats in situations like this. Stay tuned lol



I have a screw under the rubber mat through the metal plate and into the floor right where the red X is below

 

Do you have the ability to curl up the edge of your mat as shown in the above illustration (on the OUTSIDE of the chrome molding)?

 

Between the drawings in the service manual and having the real thing in your hands, I guess you should be able to figure this out. While the drawing says 6 screws, in looking at the tabs of which there are 21 total, 12 appear to have screw holes, and 9 are just plain tabs - 6 versus 12, I can't figure out. Plus there's the instruction to "insert tabs thru slits & bend outward" - so maybe the mat and the pan are actually one piece, and the trim piece and tabs (and screws) hold things together and then secure the assembly to the floor of the Toro? Looking forward to what you uncover.

 

I have a PDF from a guy who put a 1966 mat into a '67 and documented the process. Would you like me to post that here? There may be some useful information there for you Bob.

 

I do not, at least yet - the edge shown in the drawing is hard as a rock. I assumed it was metal, but maybe it's just hardened vinyl. I may try hair dryer heat to see if there is any movement possible.

 

I think anything like that would be helpful, yes!

 

I think that's a strong possibility, but the one oddity for my car at least is the one visible screw that is under the mat in the front corner. I need something like a hamburger spatula that I can slide under the pan and see if there are other screws in a similar position.

 

Here you go. It's from Russ Barnes who is also a member here if I am not mistaken. I do hope he doesn't mind me posting it.

 

WOW, there's some fantastic information included in that. I was fully expecting to find the two floor rails underneath my carpet, but maybe they aren't there?! '67 attaches straight to the carpet. OK, so I need to determine where my attaching screws are and I have to believe they are visible through the floor pan underneath the car in some way. If they are, maybe something as simple as snips or a oscillating tool would be able to cut them off so the entire pan could be removed. I will see what I can get to today and this weekend. Thank you for that article!

 

Glad I could help. Russ is the real deal though......he's a wizard with this stuff.

 

This will an interesting "adventure" for BSieg - I can hardly wait for his follow-ups.

 

I removed the mat and carpeting from a '67 parts car. That was back in the fall of '89 and I don't remember the details of how I removed it. I now wish I had kept that mat. I do remember the floor being totally flat - no rails. I removed the carpet so I could have a body shop cut the floor out. I inspected that floor carefully for rust, so I remember the lack of rails. I've looked at photos of the undercarriages of '67 Toronados on the net. None of them show screws protruding from the interior. Maybe they are just hard to see.

>I think that's a strong possibility, but the one oddity for my car at least is the one visible screw that is under the mat in the front corner.

I am having trouble visualizing this. Can this be seen in your mat photo above? I don't see anything in the photo that relates to the mark you've made on the ASM illustration.

 

Well. I was able to pry up the front corner where the mat is loose, and I got a good camera flash to capture the result…. A screw running through a tab. And as I was able to get this area raised a bit, I can now confirm that the mat is a single piece of rubber with the shiny aluminum rail pushed through slots all around. No tray for sure, no rails for sure, and I have zero idea what the screws are attaching to. Maybe there is a flat nut on the back side of the carpet? I’m going to remove the sill plate and see how far I can run my hands underneath. I need to find the one screw mount up under the dash - that may be the only real attaching point to the car itself if these aren’t screwed into the floor pan. If these screws happen to all be hex head, I could potentially slide a skinny wrench under the edge and loosen each one, if needed. No way could the edge be rolled back like the ASM shows.

 

I couldn't quite get under to see what I felt - but I do remember a screw coming through the floor pan when I rustproofed the undercarriage a year ago. I paid very little attention to it at that time. I'll see if I can get back under there tomorrow. And honestly, it may have nothing at all to do with this floor mat.

 

So, Bob, it's been 3 weeks since last post. Any progress / Anything to report. Some of us are waiting with baited breath, especially since we're all surprised that 1967 mat is so completely different compared to 1966. Good luck with your efforts.

 

You're probably already into your work on the hardened (?rubber) floormat, but I thought I'd do a little research as to how you might proceed. Here's 2 non-product sites I found. Again, good luck.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=f8408...ZXhpYmlsaXR5Lw

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4254d...b24tcnViYmVyLw

 

Actually it was me - I had scanned that article in my folder of cool Toro info in case I wanted to do this job on my '67. I had posted it on the Toronado Owners FB page several months ago after receiving permission from the President of TOA. I have other stuff too if folks need it, like Breznick's excellent "Drum Lessons" web post that is no longer accessible on how to convert first-gen Toros to front disc brakes, recent TOA articles on what's interchangeable between E-bodies, etc. If you're looking for something you recall seeing, I just might have it in PDF.

 

Hey Bob - my idiot restorer took my mat/pan out of my '67 and didn't reinstall it so I have it in my leftover parts box he gave me. If it'll help, I can dig it out and takes some pics for you - just say the word. I do plan to reinstall mine as it was in pretty decent shape, and the work to convert a '66 one for a '67 looks to be a pain (and would be incorrect anyway).

 

I thank you so much for sharing that article then! You rock! I would definitely love to see what you have with regards to interchangability with the E-bodies as well. Us Toro guys gotta work together right? SO much stuff is difficult to track down on these things and if it wasn't for these forums, I'd be stuck in the mud.