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There is already lots of good info on this site about this topic , but i am still unclear on a few things . My EGR valve failed so plugged it off for now . no ping that i can hear , so not sure if i will replace it or leave it plugged off ? seeing that the EGR is plugged off , to take a picture of the EGR system i removed all hoses and everything attached .
I think the vac line from carb to EGR has to be a ported vac outlet from carb. in that line there is a Black and thin yellow item ? i labelled C , maybe a delay? C sits on top of water pump , so thermal switch ? . then a T vacuum fitting after letter C not before ! then the vac line goes to A it rests on a valve cover so a thermal switch ? then to an electrical vacuum switch i labelled B . maybe the carb only has one ported vacuum connection so they had to T into that EGR vac hose . question what is the electrical vacuum switch for ?
We ASSUME this is a 1980-84 307 from your screen name, but what year specifically? I also assume from your location that this is a Canadian emissions car and is not CCC, correct?
Car is a 1982 delta 88 with a 307 engine , sold new in Canada , says Canadian certified on fan shroud . not CCC has no electrical connections carb number is 17082287 carb rebuild kit was BWF 10779
Last edited by 307-5a; Oct 15, 2021 at 05:07 PM.
Reason: ad photo/ not CCC
Cool, but unfortunately you need the Canada-specific service manual info for this. Curious if the car has 5A or 6A heads. I was under the impression that the CA-spec cars got 6A heads.
engine has 5a heads . do part numbers in pic help ? could some one please post a pic or info about the Canadian service manual i should get . Car is a 1982 delta 88
Last edited by 307-5a; Sep 22, 2021 at 10:34 AM.
Reason: changed picture had part number wrong
The part you are talking about is a vacuum delay valve. Not sure exactly how it works. I think I have a couple sitting at home, might have to take one apart and look at it.
The 560111 is a thermal vacuum valve. Typically, it closes under 61 degrees F and under. Full open at 76 degrees F. It should be sitting in the casting number well on the front of the block in a little "stove-like" holder dealie. It may be somewhere else on your Canada car, though. I'm not sure. As far as that other valve, not sure what it does, but I do believe it is some sort of vacuum delay valve. Perhaps when the engine is even colder or some other condition requiring EGR to work under 61 degrees F? Not real sure.
Here's a blurb from me over at the G-body forum concerning the 560111 valve from a couple years ago.
The thing about EGR valves and part numbers- some of them have changed a lot over the years and cross-references make it look like a string board in a detective squad room.
Oh, and check this out. Your vacuum temperature valve (GM calls it a "EGR THERMAL VAC") is part number 560111 (black/yellow). If yours isn't working right......
This valve holds off PORTED vacuum from your carb (above the throttle plates) until the valve reaches a certain temp in the little "oven" it sits in trapping engine heat to improve driveability of the car while the engine comes up in temp. Once the temp is reached, it allows the ported vacuum to go normally to control the EGR valve. It's not 100% absolutely necessary, but without it or if it's failing open when cold, it will operate the EGR when you don't really need it to.
Easy to check. If the valve works, when you start it cold, pull off the hose at the EGR and check for vacuum. There should be none. Blip the throttle by hand. If there's vacuum when cold, the valve failed open. When the engine warms up to some point, it will open and allow vacuum to the EGR. Once the engine is warm, blip the throttle again. If you dont' feel vacuum, the TCV has failed closed and you'll never see EGR. If you feel vacuum, it's doing it's job. Remember, ported vacuum usually has basically NO vacuum signal when at idle.
Cool, but unfortunately you need the Canada-specific service manual info for this. Curious if the car has 5A or 6A heads. I was under the impression that the CA-spec cars got 6A heads.
Not any I have seen, all were 5A. The 81 and 82 were also non air injected. The heads had factory plugs. We went to air injected in 83 but still no CCC.
Thanks 69HO43 for the info on the 560111 thermal valve , and how to test it . this thermal switch on my car sits on the water pump with a metal cover over it , maybe the cover is to keep it warm or warm it up faster .
so still do not know what the electrical vacuum switch is for . So no other car owner on this forum has one ? OK so what possible things could it be for ? please thro out any ideas and i will test / trial any idea . To recap what we know for sure , it is hooked up to ported vacuum . The vacuum closes or opens to send ? or receive ? an electrical signal . thats a test with a multi meter is it normally open or closed with no vacuum ! then test again under vacuum . So could it receive an electrical signal from temperature sender ? or send an electrical signal to ? distributor or Transmission ? what else could it send a signal to ? seeing that we do not know what its for i put it all back in place , but vac line to egr plugged off . another test could be a one piece vac line from ported outlet to the electrical switch as maybe one or both of the thermal switches have failed and see if i notice anything while driving. i purchased a big roll of vacuum line to replace old line and use to test ideas .
The little cover is like a heat stove- to trap the warm air to help keep the heat around the thermal vacuum valve. California emission cars have this but still not familiar with that electrical connector and the vacuum delay valve function/operation.
ooops i had posted the wrong part number , no wonder no one could help ! checked part again , then was easy to find part on internet , found above pic s on net think it says 81 Buick , so this electrical vacuum switch is for the transmission converter lock up . But this makes it harder to find as it is on emission hose diagram. . So this switch has to go back on . Ok next Question does it really need the thermal switch 22505499 between this trans lock up vac switch and carb ported vac ?
Tested trans electric vacuum switch with no thermal controls , as there were two thermal controls in the vac line , so a vac line to carb (ported) . ran car down hi way , that did not work well at all seemed like trans was stuck in 2nd gear , maybe to much vacuum ? so stopped car unplugged vac line from trans electrical switch , car then ran at hi way speed no problem . So maybe one of the thermal controls also reduces vacuum ? or between the two of them they reduce vacuum . tested trans electric switch with a piece of vacuum line and sucked on it , it takes very little vacuum to make switch close , or maybe switch is old and tired ?
It appears it has something to do with allowing lockup when that thermal vacuum switch is open to allow vacuum to the EGR/vacuum delay valve lines. It likely is taking the place of the ECM-controlled lockup signal to the transmission. You have to be in a certain throttle position with certain vacuum and maintained and over a certain temperature, maybe in a certain gear level, then the solenoid locks up the converter? Then letting off the gas kills vacuum signal, switch drops out unlocking the converter again. Similar to alternate TPS? I dunno. Not familiar with non-CCC Canadian operation of the 200-4R.
This is a picture of the Blue and mostly black Vacuum control item , number on it 22505499 , it must be thermal as it lays on the valve cover , notice it is marked A and B , so maybe directional ? and interesting the T for the electrical / vacuum switch is after 56011 , so the electrical vacuum switch needs ported Vacuum and both 56011 and 22505499 vac controls ?
Question what is the Blue and black vacuum control how does it work ?
