c-towndave

I am getting my 71 Olds engine rebuilt and the builder mentioned that I have a very rare version of the engine that has .0010 over lifters from the factory. He has found a source in California for them, but they want $900 for them.
Has anyone heard of this before? If so, and if what the builder says is correct, are there any other places with more competitive pricing?

Thanks
Dave

rocketraider

All that means is that there was a casting or machining goof at the engine plant and the factory put in oversize lifters to avoid scrapping the block. It's more common than you'd think and you don't always see an entire set of .010 lifter bores in a given block. I've seen blocks with both standard and .010 in them- but the factory wasn't buying their lifters 16 to a box either. Yes it does complicate rebuilds down the road.

CyberCholo

900 dollars for the lifters on their own?!!?!?!

Are they made of solid gold? Or is the norm for rarities like this? Seems you're not far off a whole new engine for that money if you look around haha!

380 Racer

Is it all 16 lifters or just 1 or 2 of them? They can install lifter bushings back down to the .842s, but it can be expensive.

cutlassefi

Good question Nick, they should all be checked out.
My machinist charges $550.00 to bush the lifter bores, and he does it with one of only 2 BHJ lifter Tru arbors ever made. So they're done the best way possible.

captjim

At that price it is probably cheaper to just get a new block.

oldsmobiledave

A source in CA you say.....that living & breathing turd Lynn strikes again!


get another block

m371961

Hope it was found before any block work. Seems crazy they didn't just toss the blocks when the factory found the error. Would not that have been cheaper for them then having oversize lifters made? I saw notations in the CSM on this and thought it strange.

Octania

I got bit by that once
I had a lot of effort into the block, and access to a mill, so I bushed it myself.
Not sure how that turned out.
I would start over with another block rather than do that again.
I even went to University Olds and bought a single $50 factory oversize lifter from a later 307 engine, but it turned out to be a roller lifter of course to be 0.921" [0.931 in OS] lifter.

[they are TEN thousandths oversize, not .0010 which is one thou]

380 Racer

Milan's machinist has the other one.

cutlassefi

I thought he might be the other one. Amazing that even Joe Mondello and BTR never bothered to get one.

380 Racer

Yes, I thought BTR had the other one. Sent my DX out to him but he did it like a few places much closer to home.

cutlassefi

Let me guess, using a reamer following the existing holes and angles?

380 Racer

Yes I think so.

Fun71

I agree with the others who said just get another block.

Kennybill

Check with Ross Racing Engines, Niles, Ohio. Probably best to find another block. Plenty of blocks out there. If your near NE Ohio, pm me. Ken

c-towndave

Well the shop was only able to locate the oversize lifters in CA. They said they have never seen one where all 16 journals had the dreaded "O" stamped on them.


After some discussion, they found they had a replacement block and will swap everything over to that one for a couple of hundred extra bucks.


They are going to give me the old block, which has already been boiled and honed. I guess it's at least worth $10 in iron.


You are all correct. Dealing with a non-"O" block is worth it in case something happens down the road and I need to replace the lifters then.


Ken, I am only about an hour due west from you. Thanks for the offer. If you have any other stuff for sale, let me know.


Hope this thread is reminder to all to look for little things like this when you buy a block or rebuild your engine.


Thanks

Dave

Smitty275

Should you decide to have the lifter bores sleeved contact me. I have custom made tooling for the job. Everything is done on a machine. None of the handheld, hope you get it right, nonsense. I'm between Canton and Alliance.

As for the BHJ deal, it's neat but totally not needed. They pilot off the existing holes and have a bar with matching holes in the cam tunnel to help keep it straight. Supposedly will relocate the lifters to print location if they are off. But it is nearly impossible to move a hole sideways with a reamer without skewing it. The only way to accurately move a hole sideways is with a boring head. If they located the tooling both above and below the existing holes I'd believe it to make a lot more sense.

cutlassefi

They do, I'm guessing you've not seen one of these all bolted up on an Olds.
The whole fixture locates off the dowel hole in the pan rail. The arbor/mandral goes thru the cam tunnel and is drilled where the lifter holes SHOULD be. There is a plate on top that guides and holds the reamer on the other end at the correct angle and position.
Additionally have you ever seen a cylinder sleeve that was perfectly concentric? I haven't, bushings can be the same way. So after they're installed you still have to insure their correct concentricity. This tool enables you to do that as well.

As mentioned there were only 2 of these arbors ever made. I would expect that those who don't have one would try to come up with another way. But the reference point used is critically important as well. Unless your spacing and angles are perfect and corrected, your procedure is no better than others CNC programs that use the head dowels as a reference. It's flawed.
Hope this helps.

Tedd Thompson

Why not reuse the lifter that was in the oversize hole? Probably not the best but I have seen reused lifters go back in even with a cam change and last for years.Not ideal but doable in a pinch....Tedd

c-towndave

Tedd,

Good point. That was an option that was brought up by the shop. Unfortunately the lifters were in bad shape and could not be rebuilt.

Dave

64Rocket

I have the same problem. I have a block that has one lifter bore .010 over. it was marked with white paint of some type. I thought it meant the cyl was over size, I figured I was boring, so no problem. Did all the machine work and put lifters in and guess what. Lifter problem and i was doing a roller cam.
So got another block and finish the project.

But I had this idea, Use a Ford lifter at .874 and have it turned down to .852, the size I need. My son is a machinist and he said very possible. I'll let you know how it works out.

Gene

billmerbach

Did this occur in 1970 I never heard of this so I just bought 16 standard ones for my 350 and I didn't keep the old ones I'm concerned now because of this topic

rocketraider

It could occur in any year. If you have the intake and valley pan off and out the way clean around your lifter bosses and you'll see the Oversize stamp if engine has them.

Something else to look for are oversize piston bores. With heads and gaskets off, clean the surface and you'll often see A B C D or sometimes even E F G H stamped in next to each bore. A-D are standard size tolerance bores and E-H are I think about .010 OS. The factory did this to allow select-fitting pistons- in other words an A piston in an A bore would give excellent compression and oil control, whereas an A piston in a D bore would give a little extra "looseness" and allow engine to spin up faster at the expense of a little oil consumption.

Octania

ah, yes, the old A-D W30 engine trick

my oversize lifter bore was stamped with an "O"
I totally missed it at first. Only when the lifter was placed in the bore was it obvious.
Toro block with .921 [.931 x1] lifters of course.

Tedd Thompson

Aren't SBC lifters .921 and don't they make oversized lifters for Chevy, Just a thought....Tedd

Smitty275

If you persue using a different brand lifter be sure it is same height and oil band is in correct place. Then verify if it can actually be ground under with out comprising oil band depth or snap ring groove.

The best solution would be to disassemble a new lifter and have the OD hard chromed and ground to size. If anyone is interested I'll talk to ACME Hard Chrome which is a place we do business with on industrial hydraulic cylinders and shafts.

coppercutlass

You know I have a fix for this. If you are building an sbo I have a bare block here with studs and straps. On the mains Std. Bore its been align honed will need to be checked 85 bucks.