Help needed Changing out Timing Chain in 403
April 3rd, 2020, 06:32 AM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,020
Good job on fixing that timing chain. It was beyond toast.
Some thoughts about pan gaskets, though. I've always read about "diesel only" oil pan gaskets and I question how that all got started. I don't know. I have never seen a GM diesel gasket that wasn't the same part number for a 260, 307, 330, 350R, 350N, 400, 403, 425, and 455. I believe that's just a story someone came up with at some point. Or perhaps the old part number didn't have a metal core and when the metal core ones came out, they only thought they were diesel pan gaskets.
Aftermarket ones are made in various forms, so those don't apply here. But I believe Mahle OS30534TC can be had from Auto Zone and Summit/Jegs for around 20 bucks. They advertise metal core.
There's only 2 GM part numbers I can find that cover every general production Olds V8 oil pan application. The latest number, to which is likely the easier to obtain in the secondary market, is a metal core cork gasket, but it's the same for every one of them I've ever used. GM part number 22519181. It's been this way for years. So if you get the diesel oil pan gaskets, you're getting them for a 307 gas engine as well. Do not be fooled by unscrupulous parts dealers that may want to charge extra for 22519181 gaskets claiming the metal core was used only on diesels, because it's bullcrap. But don't just believe me. Look it up in any GM parts book.
Can't swear by it because I haven't pulled them out of their packages yet, but even the old dinosaur p/n 384472 may be a metal core as well. Which, btw was the p/n used until 1983 when it was superseded by the 22519181. Early books showed 384472 as fitting all 64-82 Olds V8 including diesel. I can't even think of a reason that a diesel would even need a different oil pan gasket.
Am I missing any pertinent info on this alleged "special" part?
Some thoughts about pan gaskets, though. I've always read about "diesel only" oil pan gaskets and I question how that all got started. I don't know. I have never seen a GM diesel gasket that wasn't the same part number for a 260, 307, 330, 350R, 350N, 400, 403, 425, and 455. I believe that's just a story someone came up with at some point. Or perhaps the old part number didn't have a metal core and when the metal core ones came out, they only thought they were diesel pan gaskets.
Aftermarket ones are made in various forms, so those don't apply here. But I believe Mahle OS30534TC can be had from Auto Zone and Summit/Jegs for around 20 bucks. They advertise metal core.
There's only 2 GM part numbers I can find that cover every general production Olds V8 oil pan application. The latest number, to which is likely the easier to obtain in the secondary market, is a metal core cork gasket, but it's the same for every one of them I've ever used. GM part number 22519181. It's been this way for years. So if you get the diesel oil pan gaskets, you're getting them for a 307 gas engine as well. Do not be fooled by unscrupulous parts dealers that may want to charge extra for 22519181 gaskets claiming the metal core was used only on diesels, because it's bullcrap. But don't just believe me. Look it up in any GM parts book.
Can't swear by it because I haven't pulled them out of their packages yet, but even the old dinosaur p/n 384472 may be a metal core as well. Which, btw was the p/n used until 1983 when it was superseded by the 22519181. Early books showed 384472 as fitting all 64-82 Olds V8 including diesel. I can't even think of a reason that a diesel would even need a different oil pan gasket.
Am I missing any pertinent info on this alleged "special" part?
April 3rd, 2020, 07:31 AM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,020
Aftermarket ones simply used all-cork for cost saving measures I would imagine. Otherwise, no difference than the metal core in fitment. Maybe there was a listing in a parts book in an auto parts store or something that started all this. Who knows?
As far as the OS12419C and OS30471C gaskets, the Felpro website (widely popular gaskets available almost anywhere) has a boatload of applications that either one of them fit, including 77-85 350 in other GM bodies that you know was a diesel, but interestingly they list VIN N for the ply gasket fitments and not the all-cork one. Perhaps the availability VIN link got it all started. If you didn't know the gasket part number and wanted the original style, you just would say "I need an Olds 350 diesel pan gasket set" and they got you the Felpro ply gasket. Which would be like a factory V8 gasket. Either way, I'm still convinced the "diesel only" gasket is just something someone made up and it simply grew legs and became a good story, as suspected.
In any case, always buy the metal core gaskets whenever possible. They all fit, but metal core is better, IMO. That's why I've always used GM oil pan gaskets. FelPro might have even made them for GM. Just be careful, that core is thin and can slice you if you're not careful when you remove those old gaskets.
As far as the OS12419C and OS30471C gaskets, the Felpro website (widely popular gaskets available almost anywhere) has a boatload of applications that either one of them fit, including 77-85 350 in other GM bodies that you know was a diesel, but interestingly they list VIN N for the ply gasket fitments and not the all-cork one. Perhaps the availability VIN link got it all started. If you didn't know the gasket part number and wanted the original style, you just would say "I need an Olds 350 diesel pan gasket set" and they got you the Felpro ply gasket. Which would be like a factory V8 gasket. Either way, I'm still convinced the "diesel only" gasket is just something someone made up and it simply grew legs and became a good story, as suspected.
In any case, always buy the metal core gaskets whenever possible. They all fit, but metal core is better, IMO. That's why I've always used GM oil pan gaskets. FelPro might have even made them for GM. Just be careful, that core is thin and can slice you if you're not careful when you remove those old gaskets.
April 3rd, 2020, 08:37 AM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,193
^^^This is MISSION CRITICAL^^^ The old gear nylon will be behind the shroud, not readily visible unless specifically looked for. The unshrouded part of the pick up will and does look clean; but, the debris will be under the covered portion. Ask them to check it closely or just replace the screen and/or pump.
Good luck!!!
Good luck!!!
April 3rd, 2020, 08:52 AM
#47
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,020
Last edited by 69HO43; April 3rd, 2020 at 08:55 AM.
April 3rd, 2020, 08:54 AM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,020
^^^This is MISSION CRITICAL^^^ The old gear nylon will be behind the shroud, not readily visible unless specifically looked for. The unshrouded part of the pick up will and does look clean; but, the debris will be under the covered portion. Ask them to check it closely or just replace the screen and/or pump.
Good luck!!!
Good luck!!!
April 3rd, 2020, 10:19 AM
#49
^^^This is MISSION CRITICAL^^^ The old gear nylon will be behind the shroud, not readily visible unless specifically looked for. The unshrouded part of the pick up will and does look clean; but, the debris will be under the covered portion. Ask them to check it closely or just replace the screen and/or pump.
Good luck!!!
Good luck!!!
Replaced with Melling pump and pick up and screen. Thanks for the concerns though
April 3rd, 2020, 10:26 AM
#50
Good job on fixing that timing chain. It was beyond toast.
Some thoughts about pan gaskets, though. I've always read about "diesel only" oil pan gaskets and I question how that all got started. I don't know. I have never seen a GM diesel gasket that wasn't the same part number for a 260, 307, 330, 350R, 350N, 400, 403, 425, and 455. I believe that's just a story someone came up with at some point. Or perhaps the old part number didn't have a metal core and when the metal core ones came out, they only thought they were diesel pan gaskets.
Aftermarket ones are made in various forms, so those don't apply here. But I believe Mahle OS30534TC can be had from Auto Zone and Summit/Jegs for around 20 bucks. They advertise metal core.
There's only 2 GM part numbers I can find that cover every general production Olds V8 oil pan application. The latest number, to which is likely the easier to obtain in the secondary market, is a metal core cork gasket, but it's the same for every one of them I've ever used. GM part number 22519181. It's been this way for years. So if you get the diesel oil pan gaskets, you're getting them for a 307 gas engine as well. Do not be fooled by unscrupulous parts dealers that may want to charge extra for 22519181 gaskets claiming the metal core was used only on diesels, because it's bullcrap. But don't just believe me. Look it up in any GM parts book.
Can't swear by it because I haven't pulled them out of their packages yet, but even the old dinosaur p/n 384472 may be a metal core as well. Which, btw was the p/n used until 1983 when it was superseded by the 22519181. Early books showed 384472 as fitting all 64-82 Olds V8 including diesel. I can't even think of a reason that a diesel would even need a different oil pan gasket.
Am I missing any pertinent info on this alleged "special" part?
Some thoughts about pan gaskets, though. I've always read about "diesel only" oil pan gaskets and I question how that all got started. I don't know. I have never seen a GM diesel gasket that wasn't the same part number for a 260, 307, 330, 350R, 350N, 400, 403, 425, and 455. I believe that's just a story someone came up with at some point. Or perhaps the old part number didn't have a metal core and when the metal core ones came out, they only thought they were diesel pan gaskets.
Aftermarket ones are made in various forms, so those don't apply here. But I believe Mahle OS30534TC can be had from Auto Zone and Summit/Jegs for around 20 bucks. They advertise metal core.
There's only 2 GM part numbers I can find that cover every general production Olds V8 oil pan application. The latest number, to which is likely the easier to obtain in the secondary market, is a metal core cork gasket, but it's the same for every one of them I've ever used. GM part number 22519181. It's been this way for years. So if you get the diesel oil pan gaskets, you're getting them for a 307 gas engine as well. Do not be fooled by unscrupulous parts dealers that may want to charge extra for 22519181 gaskets claiming the metal core was used only on diesels, because it's bullcrap. But don't just believe me. Look it up in any GM parts book.
Can't swear by it because I haven't pulled them out of their packages yet, but even the old dinosaur p/n 384472 may be a metal core as well. Which, btw was the p/n used until 1983 when it was superseded by the 22519181. Early books showed 384472 as fitting all 64-82 Olds V8 including diesel. I can't even think of a reason that a diesel would even need a different oil pan gasket.
Am I missing any pertinent info on this alleged "special" part?
Fel-Pro OS30471C , the cork-metal is what I furnished.
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