Help needed Changing out Timing Chain in 403

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 06:32 AM
  #41  
69HO43's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,559
Good job on fixing that timing chain. It was beyond toast.

Some thoughts about pan gaskets, though. I've always read about "diesel only" oil pan gaskets and I question how that all got started. I don't know. I have never seen a GM diesel gasket that wasn't the same part number for a 260, 307, 330, 350R, 350N, 400, 403, 425, and 455. I believe that's just a story someone came up with at some point. Or perhaps the old part number didn't have a metal core and when the metal core ones came out, they only thought they were diesel pan gaskets.

Aftermarket ones are made in various forms, so those don't apply here. But I believe Mahle OS30534TC can be had from Auto Zone and Summit/Jegs for around 20 bucks. They advertise metal core.

There's only 2 GM part numbers I can find that cover every general production Olds V8 oil pan application. The latest number, to which is likely the easier to obtain in the secondary market, is a metal core cork gasket, but it's the same for every one of them I've ever used. GM part number 22519181. It's been this way for years. So if you get the diesel oil pan gaskets, you're getting them for a 307 gas engine as well. Do not be fooled by unscrupulous parts dealers that may want to charge extra for 22519181 gaskets claiming the metal core was used only on diesels, because it's bullcrap. But don't just believe me. Look it up in any GM parts book.

Can't swear by it because I haven't pulled them out of their packages yet, but even the old dinosaur p/n 384472 may be a metal core as well. Which, btw was the p/n used until 1983 when it was superseded by the 22519181. Early books showed 384472 as fitting all 64-82 Olds V8 including diesel. I can't even think of a reason that a diesel would even need a different oil pan gasket.

Am I missing any pertinent info on this alleged "special" part?
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 06:45 AM
  #42  
joe_padavano's Avatar
Old(s) Fart
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,815
From: Northern VA
Fel-Pro OS13419C is the all-cork gasket
Fel-Pro OS30471C is the cork-metal ply gasket
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 07:31 AM
  #43  
69HO43's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,559
Aftermarket ones simply used all-cork for cost saving measures I would imagine. Otherwise, no difference than the metal core in fitment. Maybe there was a listing in a parts book in an auto parts store or something that started all this. Who knows?

As far as the OS12419C and OS30471C gaskets, the Felpro website (widely popular gaskets available almost anywhere) has a boatload of applications that either one of them fit, including 77-85 350 in other GM bodies that you know was a diesel, but interestingly they list VIN N for the ply gasket fitments and not the all-cork one. Perhaps the availability VIN link got it all started. If you didn't know the gasket part number and wanted the original style, you just would say "I need an Olds 350 diesel pan gasket set" and they got you the Felpro ply gasket. Which would be like a factory V8 gasket. Either way, I'm still convinced the "diesel only" gasket is just something someone made up and it simply grew legs and became a good story, as suspected.

In any case, always buy the metal core gaskets whenever possible. They all fit, but metal core is better, IMO. That's why I've always used GM oil pan gaskets. FelPro might have even made them for GM. Just be careful, that core is thin and can slice you if you're not careful when you remove those old gaskets.
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 07:56 AM
  #44  
joe_padavano's Avatar
Old(s) Fart
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,815
From: Northern VA
384472 was formerly superseded by 22519181 in Parts History Catalog 87B.


Old Apr 3, 2020 | 08:02 AM
  #45  
Guy Fillinger's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 287
I know you have but I have to ask any way. Did you check the Oil Pump screen for Plastic from the gear? If you didn't you are in for a lot of disappointment.
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 08:37 AM
  #46  
Sugar Bear's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,120
^^^This is MISSION CRITICAL^^^ The old gear nylon will be behind the shroud, not readily visible unless specifically looked for. The unshrouded part of the pick up will and does look clean; but, the debris will be under the covered portion. Ask them to check it closely or just replace the screen and/or pump.

Good luck!!!
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 08:52 AM
  #47  
69HO43's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,559
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
384472 was formerly superseded by 22519181 in Parts History Catalog 87B.

Yeah, I mentioned that in a previous post. Not about the catalog, but the supersession. That's why I said there were only ever 2 part numbers for the 64-up Olds V8 pan gaskets, diesel included with both part numbers. The p/n change occurred long before 1990, though, and based on my research, roughly sometime in late 1983 it got changed in the parts books as I can't find any reference to the old number in the Group past 1983. I got a 1987 G-body book with the newer p/n in it, so I know for sure it happened prior to 1990. I wonder which parts history catalog it first showed up in? Probably just changed vendors.





Last edited by 69HO43; Apr 3, 2020 at 08:55 AM.
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 08:54 AM
  #48  
69HO43's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,559
Originally Posted by Sugar Bear
^^^This is MISSION CRITICAL^^^ The old gear nylon will be behind the shroud, not readily visible unless specifically looked for. The unshrouded part of the pick up will and does look clean; but, the debris will be under the covered portion. Ask them to check it closely or just replace the screen and/or pump.

Good luck!!!
Very true and I second this check. Double check it. Not so much as the pieces not getting into the pump but potentially blocking flow. It could be fine at 20 mph, but at 85 mph you may not want to take that chance, it might be worth a check for sure.
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 10:19 AM
  #49  
MrEarl's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 104
From: Athens, Georgia
Originally Posted by Guy Fillinger
I know you have but I have to ask any way. Did you check the Oil Pump screen for Plastic from the gear? If you didn't you are in for a lot of disappointment.
Originally Posted by Sugar Bear
^^^This is MISSION CRITICAL^^^ The old gear nylon will be behind the shroud, not readily visible unless specifically looked for. The unshrouded part of the pick up will and does look clean; but, the debris will be under the covered portion. Ask them to check it closely or just replace the screen and/or pump.

Good luck!!!
Originally Posted by 69HO43
Very true and I second this check. Double check it. Not so much as the pieces not getting into the pump but potentially blocking flow. It could be fine at 20 mph, but at 85 mph you may not want to take that chance, it might be worth a check for sure.

Replaced with Melling pump and pick up and screen. Thanks for the concerns though
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 10:26 AM
  #50  
MrEarl's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 104
From: Athens, Georgia
Originally Posted by 69HO43
Good job on fixing that timing chain. It was beyond toast.

Some thoughts about pan gaskets, though. I've always read about "diesel only" oil pan gaskets and I question how that all got started. I don't know. I have never seen a GM diesel gasket that wasn't the same part number for a 260, 307, 330, 350R, 350N, 400, 403, 425, and 455. I believe that's just a story someone came up with at some point. Or perhaps the old part number didn't have a metal core and when the metal core ones came out, they only thought they were diesel pan gaskets.

Aftermarket ones are made in various forms, so those don't apply here. But I believe Mahle OS30534TC can be had from Auto Zone and Summit/Jegs for around 20 bucks. They advertise metal core.

There's only 2 GM part numbers I can find that cover every general production Olds V8 oil pan application. The latest number, to which is likely the easier to obtain in the secondary market, is a metal core cork gasket, but it's the same for every one of them I've ever used. GM part number 22519181. It's been this way for years. So if you get the diesel oil pan gaskets, you're getting them for a 307 gas engine as well. Do not be fooled by unscrupulous parts dealers that may want to charge extra for 22519181 gaskets claiming the metal core was used only on diesels, because it's bullcrap. But don't just believe me. Look it up in any GM parts book.

Can't swear by it because I haven't pulled them out of their packages yet, but even the old dinosaur p/n 384472 may be a metal core as well. Which, btw was the p/n used until 1983 when it was superseded by the 22519181. Early books showed 384472 as fitting all 64-82 Olds V8 including diesel. I can't even think of a reason that a diesel would even need a different oil pan gasket.

Am I missing any pertinent info on this alleged "special" part?
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Fel-Pro OS13419C is the all-cork gasket
Fel-Pro OS30471C is the cork-metal ply gasket

Fel-Pro OS30471C , the cork-metal is what I furnished.
Old Apr 3, 2020 | 10:52 AM
  #51  
Sugar Bear's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 4,120
Excellent call on the pump replacement! You will be thrilled with the performance improvement.
Old Apr 16, 2020 | 06:33 AM
  #52  
MrEarl's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 104
From: Athens, Georgia
Thought some might like to see what was blocking about 70% of the pump screen.


Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Sweet64
Small Blocks
6
Apr 4, 2017 03:33 PM
geeves
Small Blocks
13
Dec 1, 2016 05:43 AM
Miles71
Small Blocks
11
May 6, 2015 08:51 PM
jaunty75
Big Blocks
32
Nov 1, 2014 10:26 PM
TOM1972
Cutlass
16
Feb 26, 2014 04:44 AM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:47 PM.