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My Hooker headers don't fit!! This is my first rodeo with headers so I'm very inexperienced with what is normal fitment issues and what is not. I expected to beat on them a little bit; a ding/dent here or there, but these are so far into the lower control arm, there is no amount of BFH wielding to make these fit. There are 2 tubes that bend outward reducing the clearance to the frame and LCA. These are Hooker 3901s for small block Olds. Has anybody had this much trouble with these headers?
Here's some pics. Looking up at the bottom of the LCA.
I tried headers on my first 71 convertible 350, what a nightmare. Not worth it IMO. Thortons has 350 true dual exhaust manifolds, these might be your best bet.
The Heddman Headers on both my 70 and 71 Supreme 350 fit with minimal massaging of one drivers side tube. It seems odd that the Hooker headers you have are that much of a hassle.
Joe:
These are Hooker 3901HKR; 1-5/8" primaries, 2-1/2" collectors. The crazy thing is the combo valve is not even close to being a problem, that's what is so surprising. I'm the kind of guy that does lots of research upfront to minimize surprises later. I expected to bang a few tubes around the steering shaft and the combo valve, but one tube is right up against the LCA so much that the suspension cannot fully articulate. This is my second set of Hookers, the first set was replaced by Holley because the collectors were crooked. I guess the QC has gone south in recent years.
Last edited by cdrod; April 17th, 2019 at 01:20 PM.
Edited.
When I selected the 'Make sure this fits your vehicle' I must have used the 'Supreme' option because it said they didn't fit. Using the Base and S options it says they do.
I have no idea what is wrong with his other than maybe an incorrect header was boxed up....
Edited to remove big block headers. Thanks for catching that Joe!
Last edited by midrange; April 17th, 2019 at 02:06 PM.
Used those smaller headers on kid's red car, they were tight to the front of the crossmember, had to get out the 48" prybar to clearance them. On the second pair that is, first pair had leaks where tubes were welded into the flanges.
You might want to re-check the first link you posted. Both Summit and Hooker show 3901s as fitting all A-body cars with Olds motors IN ADDITION TO the Firebirds with 403 and 350 Olds motors. 3902s are for the BBO, not the SBO, and definitely won't fit.
You might want to re-check the first link you posted. Both Summit and Hooker show 3901s as fitting all A-body cars with Olds motors IN ADDITION TO the Firebirds with 403 and 350 Olds motors. 3902s are for the BBO, not the SBO, and definitely won't fit.
Thanks Joe, edited my post. I must have selected the 'Supreme' option by mistake, although we all know that isn't true either.
I wonder if a wrong header was boxed up by mistake at the factory.
I have no idea what is wrong with his other than maybe an incorrect header was boxed up....
The reality is that headers are not a precision product as far as fitment is concerned. I've never understood why this is the case, but it sure seems like even within a given manufacturer's production run, fitment is all over the map. I guess they just don't give a rip, especially on a low volume product like parts for an Olds. Of course, as soon as you scrape them trying to install them, they become your problem.
I just picked up a set of those Thornton headers and was worried about how the flanges are warped .024". The owner called me on his cell phone and guaranteed that if they leaked he'd not only take them back but replace them with a revised design coming out next month (May). As far as airflow goes, these headers look terrible, but they are a LOT better than my rotted out original manifolds.
I returned a set of Hooker headers last fall because they had a tube that was directed straight through the driver's side engine mount. Oops.
I'd return headers if they didn't fit. No reason to bang your head against a wall trying to get them to fit (or bang up the headers). There are plenty of other options out there, especially for Cutlii. FWIW, the Hedaman Hedders on my 71 98 fit perfectly.
If they don't fit griping on here is not the answer. Even though Holley just acquired them does not mean there are not personnel there with knowledge of the product, those are the people to talk to. A call to the company you bought them from will net a return but no solution. Either way any attempt to install those is not going to work.
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I was hoping to hear from others that my experience is an anomaly and others have had good experiences with the Hooker brand. I have a customer service contact now and have sent my photos to him. We'll see what they will do. I've modified the headers so pretty sure I can't return them; I cut off the 3-bolt collector flanges and welded on a ball & socket flange for better sealing, I welded on an O2 sensor bung and had them ceramic coated. Kicking myself for getting so far ahead of the curve on this.
I thought I'd provide an update to my header problems. I hate it when I follow a thread and the OP never returns to update the story. It's like reading a book and never reading the last chapter to see how it all ends. I emailed the Holley rep about my second round of fitment issues but got an "out-of-office" auto reply. While I waited on a response from Holley I decided to try a different brand of header; others have reported minimal problems from the Headman brand so I purchased a set of Headman 58060 to try out.
The Hooker drivers side header had 2 primary tubes that kicked out (away from the engine) instead of dropping straight down from the cylinder head; this put them right up against the back side of the lower control arm (LCA). I can't understand why they are made this way as I could see no reason for the kick out and without it the headers would have git perfectly. The on-line pictures of the Headman headers showed a more direct, down and back routing of the primary tubes which (I thought) would eliminate my LCA interference. Unfortunately, although the Headmans solved my LCA interference problem, they were not without their own fitment and quality control issues. The biggest issue was direct contact with the starter, (I'm already using a small, gear-driven model). It would be next to impossible to use the larger, stock starter. The Headmans also have 1-7/8" primary tubes, where the Hooker have 1-5/8" tubes. The flanges on the Headmans were thin, the welds were sloppy and the drivers side collector was a full 1" higher than the passenger side. I was not impressed, so I boxed them up and returned them to Jegs.
In the mean time, I called the Holley rep on the phone (I got no response to my email) and discussed my situation. He reluctantly agreed to send me a replacement for the drivers side hoping that my experience was an anomaly and the replacement header would solve all my problem...which it didn't. Many people suggested I get some shorty headers, but I really wanted to stay with long-tube headers to get the most out of my stroker engine. The Hooker headers had better build quality than the Headmans; they had thicker flanges and primary tubes, and the welding looked much better. So...I decided to modify the Hookers to remove the kick out that was causing the LCA interference.
I purchased some pre-bent 1-5/8" mild steel tubing from Speedway and started cutting. I tack-welded some flat bar to the 2 primary tubes that were staying put (to use them as a reference point) then carefully cut off the collector so I could reuse it. I made some very surgical cuts to the 2 offending primary tubes and started routing a new path that would keep them away from the LCA. My welding skills are mediocre at best and my MIG was running out of gas, but I think they turned out pretty good. The best part is I now have over 1" of clearance to the LCA! Here's some pics.
Headman 58060 Issues: Headman hitting the starter.
Eric:
Yeah, I was pretty scared to cut them up, I've never done this sort of thing before and didn't want to screw them up beyond all hope. I was grateful to the Holley rep for letting me keep the first set. It made the modification job much easier because I could reference the "before" set on the car while reworking the "after" on the bench. The irony for me is I chose the Hookers mostly because of good reports from others who have used them with minimal issues. Most of the complaints revolved around relocating the brake distribution block. I had no fitment issues at all with the distribution block, and can't for the life of me, understand why Hooker assembles them with the bottom tubes "kicked out" as there is plenty of room to drop straight down and back. I also thought the smaller 1-5/8" primary tubes would allow more room to get past the frame and starter. I can't imagine how tight it must be with a 455 and 2" primary tubes!! Thanks your your comments.
Funny thing to hear about Hedman quality; i just got rid of my shorties which were never run yet; when i received them, collector extensions didnt fit to collectors without modification. After that, they still had really horrible welds and already warped flanges. Plus they come far too down for shorties. Just a leak and problems waiting to happen. Box states " proudly made in USA". Being that i live in Finland, returning wasnt an option.
I just sold them marked out -50%.. Not worth the trouble for shorties IMO..
Wow, I'm saddened to hear the build issues with both of those header companies.
I have Heddmans on my car and didn't have any of the issues you experienced but then again they were purchased in 1990, so a completely different product than what is available today.
Years back I had Headers by Ed make a set of headers for my 4-4-2. Being in the same town, I went to his shop and he showed me shelf-upon-shelf of jigs that he used for various cars/engines. The jigs were simple and only included the reference points where the tubes shouldn't go. He made each set of headers on the relevant jig. The concept wasn't difficult and his headers fit PERFECTLY--as if they were something the factory would have made.
With this background, I wonder why two of the biggest names in the business would alienate customers with poor quality--this can't turn out well for them in the future.
The manufacturer still has to cut tubes and make welds no matter how poor the quality is; it costs no more to make those cuts and welds in the correct places.
Fun71:
Yeah, I'm starting to realize that parts and products that worked "pre-china" are no longer as dependable as they were before all the off-shoring. Although, Headman states their headers are made in the USA, they just didn't look as well made as the Hookers (made in China).
Greg:
Thanks for the congrats! This header ordeal really killed my momentum. I feel like i've been stuck for 2-3 months, but I spent the better part of today in the garage and getting this project back on track!
Good grief. Both sound like crap for different reasons. Too bad the cheap Chinese stainless headers are only for the BBO. They fit better than the Hookers and better made than the Hedman. Good to know both should be avoided. There the instant rusting Flowtech headers that also have the kick out and even thinner flanges the Hedman's.
April 16th, 2019, 02:32 PM
