Adjustable rockers for the LF9
January 10th, 2023, 12:32 PM
#41
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Thank you !
I managed to find the original manual with the disassembly and the settings. I can repost the manual if necessary but I don't know if it's allowed on the forum.
By cross-checking with the other videos on YT I understood that there is almost no adjustment possible on it.
On the other hand, by analyzing the operation of the automatic ignition advance, I think that I must have an ignition delay: at idle or smooth acceleration to medium revs the engine runs just fine but as if a cylinder was missing.
Arrived at medium revs to high revs and making big accelerations the engine runs perfectly. It is by doing these actions that we create an ignition advance. So if during the advance it runs well and without advance it runs badly, the pump is badly set.
I aligned the mark on the adapter well but frankly I think it's average. when you see the key system of the pump in the block there is a rather large original play.
By counting the wear of the parts it is not excluded that I have a play on the key thus creating a delay. I will try to turn the pump slightly to manually stall the advance.
Which makes me come to ask you if there aren't adapters or some tool allowing you to quickly disconnect and reconnect the steel lines, because it's long and complicated (as I had to twist everything at because of the rocker covers it's horrible to reconnect)
edit : link to my new thread for electrical issues : https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ked-0v-169256/
I managed to find the original manual with the disassembly and the settings. I can repost the manual if necessary but I don't know if it's allowed on the forum.
By cross-checking with the other videos on YT I understood that there is almost no adjustment possible on it.
On the other hand, by analyzing the operation of the automatic ignition advance, I think that I must have an ignition delay: at idle or smooth acceleration to medium revs the engine runs just fine but as if a cylinder was missing.
Arrived at medium revs to high revs and making big accelerations the engine runs perfectly. It is by doing these actions that we create an ignition advance. So if during the advance it runs well and without advance it runs badly, the pump is badly set.
I aligned the mark on the adapter well but frankly I think it's average. when you see the key system of the pump in the block there is a rather large original play.
By counting the wear of the parts it is not excluded that I have a play on the key thus creating a delay. I will try to turn the pump slightly to manually stall the advance.
Which makes me come to ask you if there aren't adapters or some tool allowing you to quickly disconnect and reconnect the steel lines, because it's long and complicated (as I had to twist everything at because of the rocker covers it's horrible to reconnect)
edit : link to my new thread for electrical issues : https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ked-0v-169256/
Last edited by maitrepathelin; January 10th, 2023 at 02:18 PM.
January 10th, 2023, 01:31 PM
#42
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As far as I know, there's no manufacturer's tool that allows you to remove the injection lines easily. You can get a box/open end wrench from the pawn shop, heat it and put a slight bend in it. This will allow you to reach the bottom bolts holding the injection pump and the bottom injection lines a bit easier.
Be aware that rotating the injection pump clockwise/counter-clockwise adjusts the timing. I believe rotating it to the passenger's side advances the timing and rotating it to the driver's side retards the timing. Make sure you have a piezoelectric timing adapter before you do this. Guys that say they can set the timing by ear or with a glass of water on top of the engine are full of... well, you know what I mean.
Be aware that rotating the injection pump clockwise/counter-clockwise adjusts the timing. I believe rotating it to the passenger's side advances the timing and rotating it to the driver's side retards the timing. Make sure you have a piezoelectric timing adapter before you do this. Guys that say they can set the timing by ear or with a glass of water on top of the engine are full of... well, you know what I mean.
January 15th, 2023, 11:58 PM
#43
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@Olds64 The glass of water or the 2€ coin on the edge of the running engine which must not fall, I would like it on a Jaguar V12 engine, but not really on an atmospheric diesel V8 with a rocker arm!
This block is literally a spin cycle washing machine.
Fortunately the engine supports are rather flexible and the chassis well studied.
Yes I saw the tools for adjustment by capturing the displacement of the diesel in the hose of cylinder n°1 but all the people who tested it said that it was not very precise.
In short, I made my rotten truckguy and I fixed it by the holy magic of the diesel god, we unscrew everything, we turn left, we go up everything, it works less well, we screw everything back, we turn right , it's even worse, we put it back in the center, that's the best...
The cylinder that farts badly when cold + smoke in the oil returns from the rocker arm covers I must have the segmentation in a sad state on one cylinder.
I will do a compression test later. But in the idea the block turns rather well and it does not smoke once hot even when accelerating (I have to pass the control of smoke emissions, a year later it was exempt ..)
I would take a picture of my flue return adapters on the high format rocker arms. I used 20x27 plumbing and multilayer, and it doesn't look so bad!
This block is literally a spin cycle washing machine.
Fortunately the engine supports are rather flexible and the chassis well studied.
Yes I saw the tools for adjustment by capturing the displacement of the diesel in the hose of cylinder n°1 but all the people who tested it said that it was not very precise.
In short, I made my rotten truckguy and I fixed it by the holy magic of the diesel god, we unscrew everything, we turn left, we go up everything, it works less well, we screw everything back, we turn right , it's even worse, we put it back in the center, that's the best...
The cylinder that farts badly when cold + smoke in the oil returns from the rocker arm covers I must have the segmentation in a sad state on one cylinder.
I will do a compression test later. But in the idea the block turns rather well and it does not smoke once hot even when accelerating (I have to pass the control of smoke emissions, a year later it was exempt ..)
I would take a picture of my flue return adapters on the high format rocker arms. I used 20x27 plumbing and multilayer, and it doesn't look so bad!
January 16th, 2023, 05:22 AM
#44
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I bought a compression gauge from Horrible Freight to do the compression test on my IDI. I tried to buy a well-reviewed one online (Lang) but it broke after using it on 2 or 3 cylinders.
https://www.harborfreight.com/master...kit-57588.html
Since you live abroad, I'd suggest buying the best one you can. If the HF compression gauge I bought dies I can always swap it out locally (make sure you save all your receipts). That wouldn't be so easy for you.
https://shop.snapon.com/product/supp...-Set/SPDTU1570
In post #38 I mentioned a fuel delivery screw that can be adjusted on the Stanadyne injection pump. If you have to pass a smoke opacity test for emissions in your country you can "turn down" that screw a flat or 2 (60-180* at most). This will eliminate any smoke on heavy acceleration.
FWIW, I've read that the screw can be "turned up" so you don't see over 1100* F (590* C) with a pyrometer during heavy acceleration. But, I don't think the adjustment on an injection pump works the same way as adjusting a carburetor to 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio with an O2 sensor.
https://www.harborfreight.com/master...kit-57588.html
Since you live abroad, I'd suggest buying the best one you can. If the HF compression gauge I bought dies I can always swap it out locally (make sure you save all your receipts). That wouldn't be so easy for you.
https://shop.snapon.com/product/supp...-Set/SPDTU1570
In post #38 I mentioned a fuel delivery screw that can be adjusted on the Stanadyne injection pump. If you have to pass a smoke opacity test for emissions in your country you can "turn down" that screw a flat or 2 (60-180* at most). This will eliminate any smoke on heavy acceleration.
FWIW, I've read that the screw can be "turned up" so you don't see over 1100* F (590* C) with a pyrometer during heavy acceleration. But, I don't think the adjustment on an injection pump works the same way as adjusting a carburetor to 14.7:1 air:fuel ratio with an O2 sensor.
January 22nd, 2023, 12:44 PM
#45
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I haven't done the compression test yet, in fact I realized that my preheating system no longer works since the reassembly of the manifold.
The wait indicator no longer lights up and the relay no longer clicks. That's why it was very difficult to start. I realized it today with -5°c.
After checking the fuses and the relay close to the windshield wiper and the relay to the spark plugs, I think the problem comes from the computer
On the technical review they specify that it is under the dashboard to the right of the steering column attached to the cable harness but I can't find it.
In any case, it swelled me up and I start the car by activating the relay with a 12v battery. I respect the 10 seconds ON and 10 seconds off, I do that three times and it starts right away.
I'm thinking of putting a small arduino which will control this relay according to the engine temperature (thanks to an infrared temperature sensor: D)
Concerning the anti-pollution test yes I have to pass a smoke opacity test, and I think that the screw has already been lowered because it absolutely does not smoke even at full throttle. And she really drags herself.
Once passed the control I will test to enrich a little with this screw to see if I recover horses.
The wait indicator no longer lights up and the relay no longer clicks. That's why it was very difficult to start. I realized it today with -5°c.
After checking the fuses and the relay close to the windshield wiper and the relay to the spark plugs, I think the problem comes from the computer
On the technical review they specify that it is under the dashboard to the right of the steering column attached to the cable harness but I can't find it.
In any case, it swelled me up and I start the car by activating the relay with a 12v battery. I respect the 10 seconds ON and 10 seconds off, I do that three times and it starts right away.
I'm thinking of putting a small arduino which will control this relay according to the engine temperature (thanks to an infrared temperature sensor: D)
Concerning the anti-pollution test yes I have to pass a smoke opacity test, and I think that the screw has already been lowered because it absolutely does not smoke even at full throttle. And she really drags herself.
Once passed the control I will test to enrich a little with this screw to see if I recover horses.
January 23rd, 2023, 04:59 AM
#46
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The device under your dash is probably the glow plug controller. I replaced this on my 86 F250 with a new part I found online only to have it fail after a month or so. So, I bypassed the GP controller and installed a manual switch to activate the GP relay.
Did you mention the glow plug tips were swollen? This happens to cheap glow plugs and then they get seized in the engine. I suggest only buying name brand glow plugs (AC Delcos or Stanadyne).
FWIW, you can start the Ford 6.9l and 7.3l IDIs with ether if the glow plugs are inoperative. It might be worth trying on your Olds during the cold winter. All it takes is a snort. Just make sure you NEVER use ether AND glow plugs together. That's a receipe for disaster.
Did you mention the glow plug tips were swollen? This happens to cheap glow plugs and then they get seized in the engine. I suggest only buying name brand glow plugs (AC Delcos or Stanadyne).
FWIW, you can start the Ford 6.9l and 7.3l IDIs with ether if the glow plugs are inoperative. It might be worth trying on your Olds during the cold winter. All it takes is a snort. Just make sure you NEVER use ether AND glow plugs together. That's a receipe for disaster.
January 25th, 2023, 02:08 AM
#47
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So far I haven't removed my spark plugs.
I checked with the thermal camera that they all heat up. It's the case.
I'm just afraid of breaking one in the block during disassembly. I prefer to wait until I have a cylinder head problem and be able to recover the pieces in the cylinders if necessary.
Concerning the ether and the candles thank you for the precision because I would have made the mistake!
I had limited myself to the use of brake cleaner which is less efficient than ether but since I shunt the relay for starting it starts really well. In fact with brake cleaner, without preheating it did not start below 8°c
I checked with the thermal camera that they all heat up. It's the case.
I'm just afraid of breaking one in the block during disassembly. I prefer to wait until I have a cylinder head problem and be able to recover the pieces in the cylinders if necessary.
Concerning the ether and the candles thank you for the precision because I would have made the mistake!
I had limited myself to the use of brake cleaner which is less efficient than ether but since I shunt the relay for starting it starts really well. In fact with brake cleaner, without preheating it did not start below 8°c
January 25th, 2023, 05:17 AM
#48
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That's a wily idea to use a thermal camera or thermometer to check the glow plugs!👍
It's probably a good idea to leave the glow plugs alone if you know they're functional. Make sure you keep us posted.
It's probably a good idea to leave the glow plugs alone if you know they're functional. Make sure you keep us posted.
February 1st, 2023, 09:35 AM
#49
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I just did my first big trip with it! (2h drive)
I had the same problem that I had regularly, namely the pump defuses and no pressure after the pump.
Back to the garage, change of the pump, and I also found a crap connection made by the previous owner with a completely cracked hose.
I redid everything clean, no worries on the road!
I had the same problem that I had regularly, namely the pump defuses and no pressure after the pump.
Back to the garage, change of the pump, and I also found a crap connection made by the previous owner with a completely cracked hose.
I redid everything clean, no worries on the road!
February 2nd, 2023, 09:02 AM
#51
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Well well well, it wasn't as finished as I would have liked.
By wanting to restart the beast today: no preheating.
I check the 12 volts on the terminal of a glow plug and the 0v on a cylinder head: 12.70. I think the glowplugs did not appreciate the long journey ...
I will look for the improvement of self-regulating glow plugs.
Otherwise yes indeed by spraying half the bottle of startpilot while turning the starter it starts.
But it will be a certain budget in the long term for startpilot!
By wanting to restart the beast today: no preheating.
I check the 12 volts on the terminal of a glow plug and the 0v on a cylinder head: 12.70. I think the glowplugs did not appreciate the long journey ...
I will look for the improvement of self-regulating glow plugs.
Otherwise yes indeed by spraying half the bottle of startpilot while turning the starter it starts.
But it will be a certain budget in the long term for startpilot!
February 2nd, 2023, 09:52 AM
#52
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Using 1/2 a can of starting fluid isn't good. It should take just a bit.
Didn't you confirm the glow plugs activated with your thermal camera? If they're working, make sure they stay on for 8-10 seconds before trying to start the engine.
Didn't you confirm the glow plugs activated with your thermal camera? If they're working, make sure they stay on for 8-10 seconds before trying to start the engine.
February 3rd, 2023, 12:27 PM
#53
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These are small startpilot sprays that I keep in my backpack all the time for troubleshooting, so it doesn't do much.
Regarding the preheating time, I manage it manually with my printed circuit (time on / time off). I took 15 seconds on and 10 seconds off.
I control the module from a switch added to the dashboard.
With the thermal camera I no longer have any heat on the block at the location of the spark plugs or on the wires. (I had this when it worked)
On the other hand, I have the power solenoid which heats up well and 12v at the output and on the pins of the glowplugs.
I'll pull one out anyway and apply 12v with a battery to see if it glows.
Regarding the preheating time, I manage it manually with my printed circuit (time on / time off). I took 15 seconds on and 10 seconds off.
I control the module from a switch added to the dashboard.
With the thermal camera I no longer have any heat on the block at the location of the spark plugs or on the wires. (I had this when it worked)
On the other hand, I have the power solenoid which heats up well and 12v at the output and on the pins of the glowplugs.
I'll pull one out anyway and apply 12v with a battery to see if it glows.
February 3rd, 2023, 02:18 PM
#54
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Let us know what you find out when you test the GPs. I suggest soaking it with penetrant over night in case the tips are swollen. Make sure you're only using name brand GPs (ACDelcos or Stanadyne).
Also, does your Olds have a block heater you can plug in for easier starting?
Also, does your Olds have a block heater you can plug in for easier starting?
February 6th, 2023, 08:32 AM
#55
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Ok I just disassembled two, they came easily.
I have tested them directly on a charged battery: nothing. Dead.
It's crazy that the 8 suddenly said no on the long journey.
They must not have been very young... They were AC Delcos.
I'm going to cannibalize the other spark plugs from one of the old advance motor blocks. And test them first of course.
On the other hand, I did not think that it got bogged down so easily in a field! I had to tow it with my old four wheel drive Volvo V70...
I have tested them directly on a charged battery: nothing. Dead.
It's crazy that the 8 suddenly said no on the long journey.
They must not have been very young... They were AC Delcos.
I'm going to cannibalize the other spark plugs from one of the old advance motor blocks. And test them first of course.
On the other hand, I did not think that it got bogged down so easily in a field! I had to tow it with my old four wheel drive Volvo V70...
Last edited by maitrepathelin; February 6th, 2023 at 08:34 AM.
February 11th, 2023, 04:55 AM
#57
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I'm taking care of the glow plugs tomorrow, but I just noticed something strange:
I ran out of fuel on a small road. Yet I had not even driven 300km before the last full tank.
the car has no leaks, moreover it passed the technical inspection! just anti pollution a bit tricky but it's validated.
I ask a friend to come and bring me 10 liters of diesel, I fill it up, it's working. I'm going to fill up at a gas station, I only put an extra 15 liters.
In other words 25 liters usable only. Yet looking at the specs I'm supposed to have 91 usable liters.
Is this a known issue?
I ran out of fuel on a small road. Yet I had not even driven 300km before the last full tank.
the car has no leaks, moreover it passed the technical inspection! just anti pollution a bit tricky but it's validated.
I ask a friend to come and bring me 10 liters of diesel, I fill it up, it's working. I'm going to fill up at a gas station, I only put an extra 15 liters.
In other words 25 liters usable only. Yet looking at the specs I'm supposed to have 91 usable liters.
Is this a known issue?
February 11th, 2023, 08:12 AM
#58
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My Ford diesel truck has the same problem. The fuel sending unit doesn't extend far enough into the fuel tank to get fuel once the level falls below 1/2 a tank or so.
This happens because there's a plastic pre-filter or showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit that falls apart after 30+ years. To fix the problem you can put a new showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit, or you can even use a length of fuel hose or line to extend the pickup of the fuel sending unit.
You can remove the tank and fuel sending unit to see if your fuel sending unit deteriorated in the same way. There may be pieces of a plastic pre-filter or showerhead in the bottom of your tank. I've never known that Oldsmobiles to have this problem though.
I sent a PM to Joe Padavano. He might know how the diesel fuel sending units were designed.
This happens because there's a plastic pre-filter or showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit that falls apart after 30+ years. To fix the problem you can put a new showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit, or you can even use a length of fuel hose or line to extend the pickup of the fuel sending unit.
You can remove the tank and fuel sending unit to see if your fuel sending unit deteriorated in the same way. There may be pieces of a plastic pre-filter or showerhead in the bottom of your tank. I've never known that Oldsmobiles to have this problem though.
I sent a PM to Joe Padavano. He might know how the diesel fuel sending units were designed.
February 11th, 2023, 09:06 AM
#59
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,375
My Ford diesel truck has the same problem. The fuel sending unit doesn't extend far enough into the fuel tank to get fuel once the level falls below 1/2 a tank or so.
This happens because there's a plastic pre-filter or showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit that falls apart after 30+ years. To fix the problem you can put a new showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit, or you can even use a length of fuel hose or line to extend the pickup of the fuel sending unit.
You can remove the tank and fuel sending unit to see if your fuel sending unit deteriorated in the same way. There may be pieces of a plastic pre-filter or showerhead in the bottom of your tank. I've never known that Oldsmobiles to have this problem though.
I sent a PM to Joe Padavano. He might know how the diesel fuel sending units were designed.
This happens because there's a plastic pre-filter or showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit that falls apart after 30+ years. To fix the problem you can put a new showerhead on the end of the fuel sending unit, or you can even use a length of fuel hose or line to extend the pickup of the fuel sending unit.
You can remove the tank and fuel sending unit to see if your fuel sending unit deteriorated in the same way. There may be pieces of a plastic pre-filter or showerhead in the bottom of your tank. I've never known that Oldsmobiles to have this problem though.
I sent a PM to Joe Padavano. He might know how the diesel fuel sending units were designed.
I don't know what the Ford tank unit looks like, but the Olds diesel tank unit looks very much like the gasoline version. Here's the drawing from the 1985 Chassis Service Manual. While looking for this, I learned that the later Olds diesels used an electric boost pump (external to the tank). The early diesels used a mechanical boost pump in the same location on the block as the gas engine pump.
February 11th, 2023, 09:54 AM
#60
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Thanks for posting the pic Joe. If the pre-filter or sock on the end of the OP's fuel sending unit fell off then the fuel sending unit wouldn't be able to reach the fuel in the bottom of the tank. While the sock on the end of the Oldsmobile fuel sending unit doesn't reach as far as the showerhead on the Ford fuel sending unit, it still may contribute to the OP's problem.
I suggest checking the ground wire from your fuel sending unit. Make sure it's secure and the connection is burnished and clean. A faulty ground can give you a poor reading on your fuel gauge.
I suggest checking the ground wire from your fuel sending unit. Make sure it's secure and the connection is burnished and clean. A faulty ground can give you a poor reading on your fuel gauge.
February 11th, 2023, 10:08 AM
#61
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,375
Thanks for posting the pic Joe. If the pre-filter or sock on the end of the OP's fuel sending unit fell off then the fuel sending unit wouldn't be able to reach the fuel in the bottom of the tank. While the sock on the end of the Oldsmobile fuel sending unit doesn't reach as far as the showerhead on the Ford fuel sending unit, it still may contribute to the OP's problem.
February 11th, 2023, 01:42 PM
#62
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Hello @Joe, thank you for your answers, very informative!
Looking at your diagram, I think that's the cause of the problem.
I'm going to bleed and take out the tank. I still have a mechanical pump model, which works pretty well! I took a rinse of diesel while trying to prime it with the starter, there is pressure!
On the other hand I specify that I apparently have an integrated water separator of origin, I would put on the forum the label which describes it which is taped on my sun visor.
Looking at your diagram, I think that's the cause of the problem.
I'm going to bleed and take out the tank. I still have a mechanical pump model, which works pretty well! I took a rinse of diesel while trying to prime it with the starter, there is pressure!
On the other hand I specify that I apparently have an integrated water separator of origin, I would put on the forum the label which describes it which is taped on my sun visor.
May 21st, 2023, 05:28 AM
#64
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I just managed to unlock the 8th cylinder without disassembling the pump.
Looking at the videos provided by Olds64 I came to the conclusion that I could have the old seal in the distributor head that had disintegrated in the high pressure pipe of the pump.
This is a recurring problem, the renovation kits come with a seal of another material which no longer disintegrates.
Before that I had already bought a complete renovation kit on ebay:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/172629790102
And be careful because you have to take this kit with the third orange seal, the others for DB2 are not for automotive applications but tractors and they do not have the same seals, two will be missing if you do not take the kit with the orange seal.
I had one of my two spare pumps on the vice ready to be disassembled, but I got really lazy. And I wondered if I couldn't unclog the pump as it was on the vehicle.
If you look at my first photos there is a rotten red diesel filter that was already in place when I bought the car. Everyone tells me to take it off but as I'm stubborn I leave it.
I emptied the diesel from the filter, and I looked everywhere in the house for something that could attack the stuck diesel and the impurities but without eating the seals.
I came across a liter bottle of 99% isopropanol alcohol for my UV resin 3D prints. After all it's either it works or I have to restart the other pump anyway. I filled the filter with ispopropanol alcohol, I started the startpilot as usual.
First safe info: A diesel goes bad with alcohol (we had no idea ..) But it still turned, very badly.
I waited for the pump to gulp down all the alcohol and it went back to diesel.
No improvement. I was a little disappointed.
I had to go get an estimate for replacing the windshield which didn't like the heat on the old impacts. And on the road the engine almost stalled, then it resumed, with the cylinder unlocked!
I really found more power, it turns round, flexible and it no longer smokes (except when you go very high in the rpm ..)
So here it is, if it can help someone else with the same problem I'll leave it there.
Looking at the videos provided by Olds64 I came to the conclusion that I could have the old seal in the distributor head that had disintegrated in the high pressure pipe of the pump.
This is a recurring problem, the renovation kits come with a seal of another material which no longer disintegrates.
Before that I had already bought a complete renovation kit on ebay:
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/172629790102
And be careful because you have to take this kit with the third orange seal, the others for DB2 are not for automotive applications but tractors and they do not have the same seals, two will be missing if you do not take the kit with the orange seal.
I had one of my two spare pumps on the vice ready to be disassembled, but I got really lazy. And I wondered if I couldn't unclog the pump as it was on the vehicle.
If you look at my first photos there is a rotten red diesel filter that was already in place when I bought the car. Everyone tells me to take it off but as I'm stubborn I leave it.
I emptied the diesel from the filter, and I looked everywhere in the house for something that could attack the stuck diesel and the impurities but without eating the seals.
I came across a liter bottle of 99% isopropanol alcohol for my UV resin 3D prints. After all it's either it works or I have to restart the other pump anyway. I filled the filter with ispopropanol alcohol, I started the startpilot as usual.
First safe info: A diesel goes bad with alcohol (we had no idea ..) But it still turned, very badly.
I waited for the pump to gulp down all the alcohol and it went back to diesel.
No improvement. I was a little disappointed.
I had to go get an estimate for replacing the windshield which didn't like the heat on the old impacts. And on the road the engine almost stalled, then it resumed, with the cylinder unlocked!
I really found more power, it turns round, flexible and it no longer smokes (except when you go very high in the rpm ..)
So here it is, if it can help someone else with the same problem I'll leave it there.
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