Need a good spray gun

Old November 11th, 2009, 11:24 AM
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Need a good spray gun

I looking for a good spray gun but I don't want to spend a lot any ideas.
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Old November 11th, 2009, 11:57 AM
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For spraying primer or final coat? If its for final coat don't buy a cheap gun even if it means buying an expensive gun used to get it cheaper.
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Old November 11th, 2009, 12:06 PM
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I have a gun that's about 7 years old. I want a new gun. The one I have is ok for primer not for painting. I was just wondering what some of the guys on the site use. I agree a I don't want a cheap one. I want one that's good.
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Old November 11th, 2009, 05:29 PM
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Finishline III
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Old November 11th, 2009, 07:58 PM
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I have several...sharpe platinum was my favorite till I tried the new eastwood LVLP...Great gun at a great price
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Old November 15th, 2009, 08:05 AM
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Bought a startingline kit some time back. Have only shot a few bits and parts I fabbed up for my truck, but it did a nice job of laying down the paint. Finish was at least as good as the factory. they could be had for under two bills. Obviously not a top of the line gun, but I would say well worth the money.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 08:37 AM
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This is an interesting topic. I am going to buy a compressor and gun in about a month. I was wondering, what is the difference between a gravity and suction feed gun? Is one preferred over the other when shooting a car?
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Old November 15th, 2009, 12:48 PM
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Not an expert but the theory is the gravity feed puts more paint on the work and less in the air as they don't need the volume or pressure air to draw the paint out of the cup. Nutshell explanation.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 03:22 PM
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Yeah Olds64 I'm in the same boat. I'm need a new compressor and gun too. My compressor bit the dust a few days ago. It was too small anyway. Csstrux explained it very well. I have been think of getting a gravity feed gun.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 05:27 PM
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I typed out a long reply & it got lost. But after talking to 3 instructors at the local comm. college I'm looking on ebay for a good used Sata.

Don
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Old November 15th, 2009, 07:51 PM
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Sata's are nice guns. You will like them.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 11:42 PM
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I am using the Eastwood gun mentioned earlier works great. The Sata would definately be better but for the DIY painter the eastwood guns are fine. Finish line guns are good also.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 07:13 AM
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My compressor bit the dust a few days ago.
70 Cutlass S, what kind of compressor did you have that bit the dust? I don't want to end up getting a bogus compressor. I've been looking at the 26-33 gallon compressors available at places like Sears, Home Depot, and Lowes. They run about $240-$400. The problem is that I don't want to run 220V AC into my garage because that would increase the cost of buying a compressor by at least $250 (to have an electrician run a 220V AC circuit).

Sounds like I should get myself one of those Eastwood guns. I've heard the Eastwood name before, I even have one of their catalogs. The good thing is that I will be able to test my skills on my wife's VW Beetle before I paint the Olds.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 07:47 AM
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Mine was a Sears, but it was too small anyway it was only 13 gallon. So I needed a new one. Plus mine was about 12 years old and had been repaired before. It wasn't worth fixing. I would go for a least 33 gallon. Plus you will need an air filter to get the water out of the air. Best to get an air control unit. It has air filter and regulator because it doesn't take much air pressure when painting a car.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 08:58 AM
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I have seen results as good as SATA and DeVilbiss jobs with the Harbor Freight guns. I think the bigger factor is the applier. I also think that it is the HVLP guns that put less material in the air, not sure it is related to the gravity or pressure function.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 10:33 AM
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Any good gun has an adjustment for air flow, but you do need a air filter.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 03:00 PM
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Personal opinion...The guy behind the gun is a HUGE part of the finish. I have used SATA's Binks deville biss and generics. I shot a better coat of paint with the generic than I did with the binks just because I had HALF a clue what I was doing and the binks was on the fist job I had ever attempted. Napa had a decent siphon feed gun some years ago as I recall that might worth exploring now that I am spouting off about it. Any how, take some time and do a few practice shoots on a panel if you can, and get the feel for the gun before you shoot for real. It also might help to chug a beer or two as well. I'm not an advocate for alcahol usually, but in this case...the calmer you are the better. It is SCARRY knowing that all the effort and time is comming down to THIS! Easy to get jerky and inconsistant when you have that weighing on you. I have only painted infrequently so have never gotten comfortable with it, and have found that one or two to cut the edge has helped.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Olds64 View Post
70 Cutlass S, what kind of compressor did you have that bit the dust? I don't want to end up getting a bogus compressor. I've been looking at the 26-33 gallon compressors available at places like Sears, Home Depot, and Lowes. They run about $240-$400. The problem is that I don't want to run 220V AC into my garage because that would increase the cost of buying a compressor by at least $250 (to have an electrician run a 220V AC circuit).

Sounds like I should get myself one of those Eastwood guns. I've heard the Eastwood name before, I even have one of their catalogs. The good thing is that I will be able to test my skills on my wife's VW Beetle before I paint the Olds.
If your panel is in the garage getting 220 is easy. PM me and we can talk about it. Electrical is my trade. The compressor will run better and last longer. An air dryer would be the best but a filter is the next best, you have to keep the air as dry as possible
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Old November 16th, 2009, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by citcapp View Post
If your panel is in the garage getting 220 is easy. PM me and we can talk about it. Electrical is my trade. The compressor will run better and last longer. An air dryer would be the best but a filter is the next best, you have to keep the air as dry as possible

Yeah, even I can do that.

Just don't have any smart alecks standing around to grab your arm and yell "Bzzzzt" to scare you half to death when you're working inside the panel with a screwdriver trying not to touch anything like you're attempting to defuse a torpedo.

They hate when I do that.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 07:37 PM
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I've got a Harbor Freight HVLP gun that I shoot epoxy primer, regular primer and even some single stage paint with. It does an Ok job. But the epoxy primer I use is PPG's DP. For a quart of primer & a pint of cat. it's $82, that's 82 bucks for three pints of paint! The info I'm getting at the college is that the Sata's will put more of that paint (primer) on the car where I want it.

This last Sat. there was a guy painting an early Mustang a bright red. After talking to him I was shocked by two things. First he only bought 2 quarts of base coat for the whole car. There's no way my HF gun would do that, maybe 3 quarts. The second thing was the price of those 2 quarts of Nason paint.... nearly $500!

I've got 4 cars and a pickup I plan to paint over the next several years. The Sata will pay for it's self in paint savings.

The Sata NR92 or NR95 sell for around $150 or so on ebay. The NR2000 looks like you can get one for about $250.

The evening class instructor at the college has a NR92 he bought new in 94. Told me when he bought it he had already bought the paint, 1 1/2 gallons for the job he was doing. When he was done painting the car he had 3 quarts of paint left. This story sold me on the fact that I need to get a Sata.

If you're really considering a cheap gun then price the paint, with cat., clear coat and primer you plan to use. A good used Sata will put more of those expensive paint products on your car.

The evening Insrt. above turns the air down to 45 PSI on his NR92. Seems like it's hardly using any air.

Don
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Old November 16th, 2009, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluevista View Post
Yeah, even I can do that.

Just don't have any smart alecks standing around to grab your arm and yell "Bzzzzt" to scare you half to death when you're working inside the panel with a screwdriver trying not to touch anything like you're attempting to defuse a torpedo.

They hate when I do that.
I've done that more than a few times. A lot of fun when you get the right guy. Also like to catch the machinist at the hydralic press with something big. Grab both shoulders and yell "Boom!" Catch'em at the right moment and they're too stunned to chase ya or throw anything.

Don
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Old November 17th, 2009, 04:13 AM
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Csstrux that's pretty funny about having drink a couple of beers. I don't drink beer I don't need it anyway I grew up in a body shop, both a dad and grandfather had shops. I worked in both. I hadn't bought a gun in such a long time. I was asking for advice to see what people are using, to get an idea what out their now. Yeah Olds64 its not hard to run 220 I've done it a couple of times not bad. I know I want a 60 gallon compressor. My wife and I are trying to sell or house. The next house will have a shop of some kind. I just have a driveway with a carport not a good place to restore a car, but will do what I have to do.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:26 PM
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Thanks for all of the advice. I guess it is a good idea to have a large compressor with an air filter? I thought about buying the Husky ~45 gallon compressor for around $450, the only problem is that it runs off of 220. I did like it that it was a servicable compressor. I've heard that the non-servicable ones are noiser than the servicable ones.

The good thing is that my circuit breakers are in the garage. They are just on the wrong wall.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Olds64 View Post
The good thing is that my circuit breakers are in the garage. They are just on the wrong wall.
Thats what they made conduit for. Still an easy project.

In auto shop we used to charge up capacitors and lay then on the metal stools just as a guy was setting down. Man that makes them jump or just toss one to the new guy. Pretty soon no one would catch anything.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 08:54 PM
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Olds64 running 220 not to big of a job, would be worth it. It would cost you around 100 dollars to do your self.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by citcapp View Post
Thats what they made conduit for. Still an easy project.

In auto shop we used to charge up capacitors and lay then on the metal stools just as a guy was setting down. Man that makes them jump or just toss one to the new guy. Pretty soon no one would catch anything.
Cruel bastid
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Old November 30th, 2009, 05:56 PM
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http://smartshoppersinc.com/Devilbiss/devilbiss.html

I've used just about every gun out there and I love the SATAs, but for less than half the money I'd put the Devilbiss Plus up against a SATA any day.
It's a reduced pressure gun, which means it has some of the benefits of an HVLP without all the hassles. HVLP guns require very precise conditions, pressures, larger hoses & fittings, etc. to work properly. Paint guns do not require a lot of pressure, but they do require a high volume(especially High Volume Low Pressure guns), something most 2 car garage size compressors can't provide enough of. CFM is what you need to look at when buying a compressor. Every tool, including paint guns, will tell you how many CFM they require.
Most people who might paint a couple cars can't really justify paying $600-$700 for a gun. Another thing to keep in mind is that not using a gun regularly can destroy the seals. So why buy a $600 gun that is not going to spray right after you use it once or twice and then allow it to dry out. Paint guns must be cleaned and stored properly, never being soaked while disassembled or stored without solvent in the cup.
Gravity fed vs. siphon fed has nothing to do with the amount of material used, you can buy an HVLP siphon fed gun. I don't know why you'd want to, but you can. Transfer efficiency is the key. More paint on the car, less in the air = high transfer efficiency. You can vary from about 40% transfer efficiency to about 80% just by gun choice.
Conventional guns = higher pressure & more paint used because you blasted more overspray into the air.
Reduced Pressure(RP) guns = slightly lower pressure, slightly higher volume & much better transfer efficiency.
High Volume Low Pressure(HVLP) guns = much higher volume of air at a much, much lower pressure providing unrivaled transfer efficiency. Unfortunately these require better than intermediate painter skills.

All of these guns have been and still are being successfully used with outstanding results. So basically, knowing your equipment and knowing what you are doing with the gun in your hand is going to be the determining fator.

As for the 2 vs. 3 quarts of paint point. I can demonstrate to painters how to spray more efficiently not by changing any equipment, but only the method in which it is used. I can paint a car with 2 quarts of paint and end up with more material on the car than a less skilled painter did with 3 quarts. Materials control is part of my job and ongoing painter training is a key factor in controlling our paint consumption. We buy over a million dollars of paint each year, so saving 30% on material is a pretty big deal. This kind of skill and experience is why sometimes the best thing for a guy who wants to paint his own car is to know his limitations and know when to hand it over to a professional.

As for the air filtration and removing moisture from your air source... you can't. But you can control it. Moisture comes from the condensation being pulled from the cooling air. The best way to eliminate it is to give the air ample time to cool before it gets to the tool or trap being used. I never put an air drop to a paint booth within the first 100 feet of air line in a shop. I'll run the air line all the way around the shop and back to the booth. Running a slight slant away from the compressor with a drain at the end before going back up and then dropping to the booth. All of the air for hose drops along the way will come off the top of the main line, not the bottom. Then put a water separator right before your hose. I know this isn't practical for the at home garage, but the principal still applies.
I've seen guys paint at home with 50 ft of hose coiled in a bucket of water to cool the air before it gets to their water separator.

Sorry about the longwinded post, but I've spent my life learning this stuff and it's something that I'm passionate about. I've acquired a wealth of knowledge on the subject and I am very eager to share it with those who are interested. If anyone has any questions related to paint, body, materials, or even setting up a miosture free air system, send me a line. I'll be glad to help.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 06:05 PM
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I didn't realize just how long that was until after I posted it.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 04:26 AM
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Very good info!!
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Old December 25th, 2009, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dapapadon View Post
I've done that more than a few times. A lot of fun when you get the right guy. Also like to catch the machinist at the hydralic press with something big. Grab both shoulders and yell "Boom!" Catch'em at the right moment and they're too stunned to chase ya or throw anything.

Don
Ya that almost works, I've had guys toss a firecracker at me when I was boring out hubs for a bearing fit at the Lathe. They thought it was hilarous; until I got'em back with the old blob of Never-Seize in their workboots or Vaseline around the headband of their hardhats.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 07:26 AM
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My son painted our 442 and a couple other cars with a $50 set of guns from Menards. They come in a 2 pack and work great.
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Old December 25th, 2009, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hardtop/ragtop View Post
Ya that almost works, I've had guys toss a firecracker at me when I was boring out hubs for a bearing fit at the Lathe. They thought it was hilarous; until I got'em back with the old blob of Never-Seize in their workboots or Vaseline around the headband of their hardhats.
You sound like our Machinist.... he doesn't get mad, he gets even. I saw him use a turkey baster to inject about a pint of water into a guys cloth covered padded seat in our shop. Funniest thing was when the guy forgot about it the next day & set in it a second time!

Merry Christmas!

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Old December 25th, 2009, 05:36 PM
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Dapapadon View Post
You sound like our Machinist.... he doesn't get mad, he gets even. I saw him use a turkey baster to inject about a pint of water into a guys cloth covered padded seat in our shop. Funniest thing was when the guy forgot about it the next day & set in it a second time!

Merry Christmas!

Don
HAH !!! I love it.

Seasons Greetings to all.

I got a neat Christmas gift from the Missus.
She's bought me a full weatherstrip set for my '66 Delta.
I near fell over in shock!!!!! God Love Her 'cause I sure do!!!!!!!!!
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Old December 26th, 2009, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ijasond View Post
I didn't realize just how long that was until after I posted it.
I used a Devilbiss plus to paint my car. Base and clear only, and a cheap Kobalt (Worked good) for epoxy, slicksand, and primer.
So you are saying to store your guns with solvent in the cup??? Just looking for the best way for storage to not let them dry out.
Thanks
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Old December 26th, 2009, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano View Post
Finishline III

I have one for heavy primer and one for color/clear. I have no complaints!
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Old December 26th, 2009, 08:20 PM
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I took the advise I got from the CC instructors and bought used Satas. Not that I value that advise over what I get here. It's just that I'll be learning from them. So I figure I should buy what they recommend.

I bought a NR92 that was upgraded with a 1.5 NR95 nozzle set for $90. It didn't come with a cup but I was able to fit an old Harbor Freight cup to it. It got a workout a few Saturdays back. There were 4 paint projects that day and the class only has one gun. The shop gun was used to paint all the bed pieces for a 69 Chevy short narrow bed. It was tied up all day on that. My gun painted a 63 Fairlane in light blue single stage by the owner. Then gray base/clear on the front fenders and hood on a late model BMW. And last a dark blue base/clear on a new Nissan. Everything turned out good. But the Fairlane did have a few runs, it was the guy's first paint job. Soory, no photos of it. It's got thinner in it.

I did buy a cheap cup for it on ebay. Don't really like the cap on it though. Here's a pic.
NR92Cup.jpg

I also bought a Satajet 2000 with a 1.2 nozzle for $225 and added a .6 liter cup for $50.
Satajet2000.jpg
Satawithcup.jpg

Later I'd like to get a Finishline III with the 1.8 & 2.2 tips for primer.

Don
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