robgarner

Ok so my gf was driving my '71 98. somehow the ignition lock would not turn backwards to cut the car off. I wedged a screw driver between the ignition lock tabs and turned it backwards and turned the car off. Drove the car 3-5 times like this. Tried to start the car and nothing. When I turn the ignition to the run position I get the GEN, TEMP, OIL lights but it doesn't turn over period. Not sure what could have gone wrong. Where do I even start to look. No blown fuses either. Thanks for any help.

oldcutlass

Possibly your neutral safety switch adjustment. Have your tried moving the shifter around and in neutral?

robgarner

yes I tried to start it in neutral and in park and nothing. I took the nss off and measured the voltage on both purple wires. one had 0V and the other 12.35 volts. I put a jumper from one to the other to give both 12V, and they both have 12V, and tried to crank it over but nothing.

oldcutlass

Ok, so when you turn the key to start, you have 12v on both sides of the nss? If you do then you need to see if you have 12v at the starter when you turn the key.

MDchanic

Ummmmm... You forced the ignition switch with a screwdriver?



One of the purple wires should be hot only when the ignition switch is turned to the START position, the other goes to the starter.

You should connect a test light to each and see if either one lights up when you turn the switch to START.
You should then take a heavy wire (10 to 12ga) and jump each terminal to a Hot source - one should make the engine crank. If it does not, then you need to check all connections to the starter and the battery, and troubleshoot from there.

- Eric

robgarner

The car has been running and an everyday driver for a year. It wasn't unit this ignition lock thing that the car no longer starts. I didn't use a screw driver. Eric I read some of your other posts and got the tumbler out by sticking a screw driver in the two slots and it came out. Put it back in and that was pretty easy.

So yes in Run position only 12v on one wire. I jumpers 12v to the other purple wire and still no start. I dropped the steering colum and I was thinking could it be the ignition switch? When I turn the key the rod that goes into the ignition switch comes toward the steering wheel. Not sure how to check the ignition switch.

I have a tilt steering wheel. How does the locking plate go back on? Normally one could use that tool that pushes it down so I can put the half washer/ lock thing on but using the tool you screw it down on ththe shaft and on a tilt steering wheel the shaft comes out it isn't permanently attached. Not sure how I'm going to get that back on.

robgarner

Eric..realized I didnt asnwer you first question. Yes I foreced the ignition lock switch, the one the key goes into with the tabs on both sides of the key, with a screw driver because the car was stuck running. I couldn't cut it off. So I forced it by wedging a screwdriver between the tabs and it turned off. I did this to turn it on and off maybe 3-5 times before it would no longer start which is where I'm at now.

MDchanic

Then there's something wrong, because there should be no voltage in the RUN position, only in the START position.

And if you jump from a good (+) source, one of those wires should make the starter spin.


The lock plate should go on easily with the generic U-shaped tool -
You screw the tool onto the steering shaft with the steering wheel nut, and the two U-shaped fingers push the plate down while pulling the shaft up (both movements are usually necessary). I usually do it by hand with one foot on the lock plate and a lot of cursing, though.

- Eric

robgarner

Yes only in start position I have 12v on one wire. So I put a jumper in the back of the new switch connector that has two purple wires and connected it back to the nss switch and still nothing when I try to start it.

I agree with how to put thelocking plate on but the steering shaft comes all of the way out. It's removable so why I try to screw the tool onto it, it just comes out towards me. The steering shaft is keyed but removable. Like its greased and all. I can provide pictures if it helps.

robgarner

Could it be the ignition switch? I see the rod Moving wheni turn the key but not sure how to check it.

MDchanic

Pictures would help.

The steering shaft shouldn't come off. It's the only thing that holds the steering wheel on - if it came off, you could just pull the steering wheel out while you're driving. Needless to say, this could be awkward.

The starter should turn if you provide it with 12V through the purple wire. If it doesn't then you've got some troubleshooting to do there.

The easiest way to test the ignition switch is to remove it and test the terminals on the bench, though, from what you describe, the START circuit is working as it should.
The Chassis Service Manual shows what connects to what.

- Eric

robgarner

The steering shaft doesn't come out on its own when the steering wheel is hooked up because the locking ring is holding it on there.

Maybe I got trouble shooting to do. Been looking at wildaboutcars.com and trying to figure it out.

So if I rule out ignition switch, nss switch something happend then possibly from forcing the car on and off using the ignition lock. Not sure what it could be. Going to post some pictures.

MDchanic

The locking ring that holds the lock plate to the steering shaft does not hold the steering shaft into the steering column.

The problem with the starter, as you have described it, is not in the ignition switch, but is between the NSS and the starter, and could not have been caused by the inadvisable way in which you chose to turn it off.

Pictures. Lots of them.

- Eric

robgarner

Here is first picture

robgarner

After I took the locking ring off. The locking ring doesn't go around the start it goes around the part that the shaft slides into.

robgarner

This is before I took ignition lock out

MDchanic

That doesn't look anything like the column in my car.

Very strange.

How about a picture of the outside of the column?

- Eric

MDchanic

I wonder whether '71 and '73 are different. The column in my '73 is just like every other column I remember taking apart, back to 1970 or so ('68 was similar, too).

- Eric

robgarner

Before I took the locking half ring off. It's on the left hand side under the broken orange plastic ring

robgarner

See if this link works. It's a video of what happens when I try to start it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/k8zwb9f9n5...61411.mp4?dl=0

The car stopped down the street let me go take a picture of the column.

MDchanic

It looks like the right lights come on at the right times.

- Eric

robgarner

Column picture front and center

robgarner

Another pic of the side of the steering column

robgarner

That's the puzzeling part because all the lights and everything seems correct. The ignition lock is turning correctly now and like I said the car has run fine for over a year. And still was starting correctly Friday night.

MDchanic

I have to admit that I don't have experience with that exact steering column.

Checking my '71 CSM copy, it looks like you've got a tilt/tele column, which is fairly rare, and which it seems I have never had to open up (I did have one on a '68, but they are different again, as they have no lock cylinder).

I'm sure someone here can help better than I can with the column-related questions, and, hopefully, with any parts you may need (I can see that you've broken the "plastic cover").

I would strongly recommend checking the CSM for instructions related to that particular model of column, as they are not like all of the others.

- Eric

Yellowstatue

Your picture with the turn signal switch in place shows you are missing a turn signal cancel spring. Circular spring, bottom of pic.

nsnarsk65cutlass

From the video my guess is the rack is broken and the ignition switch is not engaging start position.To verify remove the ign switch and manually operate it in all positions.Yes that is a tilt telescoping column.

MDchanic

I disagree. As he turns the switch, the dashboard goes from no lights (OFF) to ALT and OIL lights (ON) to ALT, OIL, and HOT lights (START).

- Eric

oldcutlass

I would think if he is getting voltage at the nss when the key is moved to start, the switch is operating correctly. If the nss is jumpered he should be getting 12v to the starter. This needs to be verified.

gs72

Do yourself a favor and use a test light instead of a dvom. One single strand of a stranded wire will carry 12 volts but not enough amperage to power anything. Start over with a good 12 volt test light, test at the nss with the key in start position. If test light lights, jumper nss connector and test at small starter post. The best way to do this by yourself is to make up a long jumper wire with alligator clips at both ends. Then clip it to the small starter post, bring the other end into the car and connect it to the pointy end of the test light. Connect the other end of the of the test light to ground, turn the key to the crank position and see if the test light lights, if it does you have a nss problem or a starter or starter connection problem. If it doesn't light up then you have a problem in the wiring harness. If it is a harness problem you are going to need to study the schematics to trace it down.