72 Olds 442 clone (with Gen III swap)
May 30th, 2011, 04:12 PM
#161
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re
2.How would you compare torque and power of a 350 rocket with intake and headers to that of a stock 5.3l with a carb setup both using a th350?
May 30th, 2011, 04:25 PM
#162
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I'm acually a big believer in mechanical fans. I run a mechanical on my 68 corvette along with a temp/AC trinary switch actuated electric.
The only reason I went with dual electrics on the 442 was cost. A dual Windstar electric is cheap, fits the 72 cutlass radiator, and moves a lot of air. And no cowl fab was needed.
Torque on the 327 (5.3) kick a$$ over a 350. The SFI, head design, compression ratio makes it close to a big block.
The only reason I went with dual electrics on the 442 was cost. A dual Windstar electric is cheap, fits the 72 cutlass radiator, and moves a lot of air. And no cowl fab was needed.
Torque on the 327 (5.3) kick a$$ over a 350. The SFI, head design, compression ratio makes it close to a big block.
May 30th, 2011, 04:38 PM
#163
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re
I'm acually a big believer in mechanical fans. I run a mechanical on my 68 corvette along with a temp/AC trinary switch actuated electric.
The only reason I went with dual electrics on the 442 was cost. A dual Windstar electric is cheap, fits the 72 cutlass radiator, and moves a lot of air. And no cowl fab was needed.
Torque on the 327 (5.3) kick a$$ over a 350. The SFI, head design, compression ratio makes it close to a big block.
The only reason I went with dual electrics on the 442 was cost. A dual Windstar electric is cheap, fits the 72 cutlass radiator, and moves a lot of air. And no cowl fab was needed.
Torque on the 327 (5.3) kick a$$ over a 350. The SFI, head design, compression ratio makes it close to a big block.
as far as power and reliability, are you happy that you went with the 5.3 or wish you had an ls1 or 6.0?
May 31st, 2011, 12:03 AM
#164
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The truck mechanical fans are big. I used an old cowl as a pattern to fab up a new one in my 68 corvette. Using a good fitting cowl just moves a lot more air thru the radiator. That took a day or 2 to make out of fiberglass.
The Windstar fan was $40 and just bolted up with a couple sheet metal brackets. Simple.
No electric pump on mine, those are really expensive.
I'll let you know about reliability and gas milage after a few trips to the lake. But the 05 5.3 50k miles with all accessories was only $900 shipped. And if I want more power, I can swap out the long block for a 6.0 LQ4 or LQ9.
Oh and I saw your post on carbed motors. The carb single plane intake moves A LOT of air, so they're great for high rpm. The SFI + CR + head design on the LS motors is great for low rpm torque and good gas milage, easy starts, reliability, etc. So it all depends on what you use the car for.
The Windstar fan was $40 and just bolted up with a couple sheet metal brackets. Simple.
No electric pump on mine, those are really expensive.
I'll let you know about reliability and gas milage after a few trips to the lake. But the 05 5.3 50k miles with all accessories was only $900 shipped. And if I want more power, I can swap out the long block for a 6.0 LQ4 or LQ9.
Oh and I saw your post on carbed motors. The carb single plane intake moves A LOT of air, so they're great for high rpm. The SFI + CR + head design on the LS motors is great for low rpm torque and good gas milage, easy starts, reliability, etc. So it all depends on what you use the car for.
Last edited by garys 68; July 16th, 2011 at 06:46 AM.
May 31st, 2011, 09:38 AM
#165
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The truck mechanical fans are big. I used an old cowl as a pattern to fab up a new one in my 68 corvette. Using a good fitting cowl just moves a lot more air thru the radiator. That took a day or 2 to make out of fiberfless.
The Windstar fan was $40 and just bolted up with a couple sheet metal brackets. Simple.
No electric pump on mine, those are really expensive.
I'll let you know about reliability and gas milage after a few trips to the lake. But the 05 5.3 50k miles with all accessories was only $900 shipped. And if I want more power, I can swap out the long block for a 6.0 LQ4 or LQ9.
Oh and I saw your post on carbed motors. The carb single plane intake moves A LOT of air, so they're great for high rpm. The SFI + CR + head design on the LS motors is great for low rpm torque and good gas milage, easy starts, reliability, etc. So it all depends on what you use the car for.
The Windstar fan was $40 and just bolted up with a couple sheet metal brackets. Simple.
No electric pump on mine, those are really expensive.
I'll let you know about reliability and gas milage after a few trips to the lake. But the 05 5.3 50k miles with all accessories was only $900 shipped. And if I want more power, I can swap out the long block for a 6.0 LQ4 or LQ9.
Oh and I saw your post on carbed motors. The carb single plane intake moves A LOT of air, so they're great for high rpm. The SFI + CR + head design on the LS motors is great for low rpm torque and good gas milage, easy starts, reliability, etc. So it all depends on what you use the car for.
Well this is going to be more of a daily driver,but at the same time I want the most power I can get so i am most likely to be getting a double plane intake.In your opinion do you think a stock 5.3l is more than enough power for the cutlass or do you think a cam and springs would be more in order?
May 31st, 2011, 11:22 AM
#166
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For a DD, I would keep the fuel injection.
As for more power, I've looked at the LS1 cam swap dyno sheets. The only increases with cams are around 5000rpm and up. So it was not worth a cam or intake swap for me.
Keep in mind the 5.3 I have came out of a 5000lb Chevy Avalanche, so they make respectable power.
As for more power, I've looked at the LS1 cam swap dyno sheets. The only increases with cams are around 5000rpm and up. So it was not worth a cam or intake swap for me.
Keep in mind the 5.3 I have came out of a 5000lb Chevy Avalanche, so they make respectable power.
May 31st, 2011, 11:33 AM
#167
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For a DD, I would keep the fuel injection.
As for more power, I've looked at the LS1 cam swap dyno sheets. The only increases with cams are around 5000rpm and up. So it was not worth a cam or intake swap for me.
Keep in mind the 5.3 I have came out of a 5000lb Chevy Avalanche, so they make respectable power.
As for more power, I've looked at the LS1 cam swap dyno sheets. The only increases with cams are around 5000rpm and up. So it was not worth a cam or intake swap for me.
Keep in mind the 5.3 I have came out of a 5000lb Chevy Avalanche, so they make respectable power.
May 31st, 2011, 01:23 PM
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Keep in mind, mine's a 72.
Frame mounts were SBC chevelle, the crossmember was already drilled for them.
Adapter plates were 1" setbacks, similar to edelbrock. Those actually move the motor forward about 1/4". Hooker now makes adapters so that the trans is in original position.
Motor mounts are GM short/wide poly, from Enery Suspension.
I added 1/4" aluminum spacers between the motor mounts and adapter to get better fit and pan clearance.
Oil pan is a CTS-V, new takeoff with pickup, windage tray $140, much cheaper than aftermarkets.
Look on LS1tech. Lots of TH350s and 400s behind LS motors but not sure if the Olds th350 had a different flexplate/torque converter bolt pattern is different from chevy. And I'll assume your th350 has dual Old/chevy block mounting holes????
Frame mounts were SBC chevelle, the crossmember was already drilled for them.
Adapter plates were 1" setbacks, similar to edelbrock. Those actually move the motor forward about 1/4". Hooker now makes adapters so that the trans is in original position.
Motor mounts are GM short/wide poly, from Enery Suspension.
I added 1/4" aluminum spacers between the motor mounts and adapter to get better fit and pan clearance.
Oil pan is a CTS-V, new takeoff with pickup, windage tray $140, much cheaper than aftermarkets.
Look on LS1tech. Lots of TH350s and 400s behind LS motors but not sure if the Olds th350 had a different flexplate/torque converter bolt pattern is different from chevy. And I'll assume your th350 has dual Old/chevy block mounting holes????
May 31st, 2011, 02:50 PM
#169
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Keep in mind, mine's a 72.
Frame mounts were SBC chevelle, the crossmember was already drilled for them.
Adapter plates were 1" setbacks, similar to edelbrock. Those actually move the motor forward about 1/4". Hooker now makes adapters so that the trans is in original position.
Motor mounts are GM short/wide poly, from Enery Suspension.
I added 1/4" aluminum spacers between the motor mounts and adapter to get better fit and pan clearance.
Oil pan is a CTS-V, new takeoff with pickup, windage tray $140, much cheaper than aftermarkets.
Look on LS1tech. Lots of TH350s and 400s behind LS motors but not sure if the Olds th350 had a different flexplate/torque converter bolt pattern is different from chevy. And I'll assume your th350 has dual Old/chevy block mounting holes????
Frame mounts were SBC chevelle, the crossmember was already drilled for them.
Adapter plates were 1" setbacks, similar to edelbrock. Those actually move the motor forward about 1/4". Hooker now makes adapters so that the trans is in original position.
Motor mounts are GM short/wide poly, from Enery Suspension.
I added 1/4" aluminum spacers between the motor mounts and adapter to get better fit and pan clearance.
Oil pan is a CTS-V, new takeoff with pickup, windage tray $140, much cheaper than aftermarkets.
Look on LS1tech. Lots of TH350s and 400s behind LS motors but not sure if the Olds th350 had a different flexplate/torque converter bolt pattern is different from chevy. And I'll assume your th350 has dual Old/chevy block mounting holes????
May 31st, 2011, 10:23 PM
#172
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I used an intank walbro pump (racetronix), 95 caprice tank, with an 02 vette regulator. Return line from the regulator went to the stock return port. I thought you were referring to an electric cooling pump in the earlier post. Stock 72 Olds radiator too.
Adapter, spacer, mount"
DSCN0289.jpg
And the chevelle frame mounts
DSCN0198.jpg
Adapter, spacer, mount"
DSCN0289.jpg
And the chevelle frame mounts
DSCN0198.jpg
June 1st, 2011, 08:01 AM
#173
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I used an intank walbro pump (racetronix), 95 caprice tank, with an 02 vette regulator. Return line from the regulator went to the stock return port. I thought you were referring to an electric cooling pump in the earlier post. Stock 72 Olds radiator too.
Adapter, spacer, mount"
And the chevelle frame mounts
Adapter, spacer, mount"
And the chevelle frame mounts
June 1st, 2011, 09:08 AM
#174
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All the A body frames seem to have the Chevy and Olds frame mount holes predrilled, probably came from the same plant.
There are other adapter plates that place the motor mounts 1" or 1 3/4" back farther on the block. You can use these that place the frame mounts in the middle of the crossmember.
I chose my combo simply because I wanted to use the muncie in the original location, I had the 1" setback plates and poly motor mounts from an earlier project, so all that was needed were $20 ebay chevelle frame mounts.
There are other adapter plates that place the motor mounts 1" or 1 3/4" back farther on the block. You can use these that place the frame mounts in the middle of the crossmember.
I chose my combo simply because I wanted to use the muncie in the original location, I had the 1" setback plates and poly motor mounts from an earlier project, so all that was needed were $20 ebay chevelle frame mounts.
June 1st, 2011, 11:48 AM
#175
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re
All the A body frames seem to have the Chevy and Olds frame mount holes predrilled, probably came from the same plant.
There are other adapter plates that place the motor mounts 1" or 1 3/4" back farther on the block. You can use these that place the frame mounts in the middle of the crossmember.
I chose my combo simply because I wanted to use the muncie in the original location, I had the 1" setback plates and poly motor mounts from an earlier project, so all that was needed were $20 ebay chevelle frame mounts.
There are other adapter plates that place the motor mounts 1" or 1 3/4" back farther on the block. You can use these that place the frame mounts in the middle of the crossmember.
I chose my combo simply because I wanted to use the muncie in the original location, I had the 1" setback plates and poly motor mounts from an earlier project, so all that was needed were $20 ebay chevelle frame mounts.
June 1st, 2011, 12:05 PM
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I'm using the 4 speed driveshaft. The trans is only about 1/4" forward of the original location.
The original truck exhaust hit the frame. I went with 98-02 f body manifolds because they support 350hp, cost about $40 used, and others have done A body swaps and they fit between the frame, steering, and z bar. Post 98 has a pic.
The original truck exhaust hit the frame. I went with 98-02 f body manifolds because they support 350hp, cost about $40 used, and others have done A body swaps and they fit between the frame, steering, and z bar. Post 98 has a pic.
June 7th, 2011, 12:29 PM
#178
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Pretty much finished. Decided to go with a quick easy fix for the glass hood and wing, flat black for now.
Still working on getting the DBW cruise control to run smoothly though.
Oh yeah, and I've been driving around on this 95 degree day with the Classic Air blasting cold and no sign of any overheating. The Windstar fans are moving a lot of air.
DSCN0379.jpg
DSCN0380.jpg
Still working on getting the DBW cruise control to run smoothly though.
Oh yeah, and I've been driving around on this 95 degree day with the Classic Air blasting cold and no sign of any overheating. The Windstar fans are moving a lot of air.
DSCN0379.jpg
DSCN0380.jpg
Last edited by garys 68; June 7th, 2011 at 12:31 PM.
June 7th, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Car looks fantastic Gary.
I really admire that you put all the effort into posting as much info as you could.
Keep us posted on how you get this done. I've been curious how people are wiring this up.
Thanks.
You did use the regular plates like you told me via PM right ??
So is it the 1" setbacks or the regular plates ??
One thing I noticed is the Olds mounts I have are 2 5/8" and are on the rear side of the crossmember.
So I am pretty sure those are getting axed being that they would put the engine probably 3-4 inches back.
I really admire that you put all the effort into posting as much info as you could.
Thanks.
So is it the 1" setbacks or the regular plates ??
One thing I noticed is the Olds mounts I have are 2 5/8" and are on the rear side of the crossmember.
So I am pretty sure those are getting axed being that they would put the engine probably 3-4 inches back.
Last edited by Aceshigh; June 7th, 2011 at 01:04 PM.
June 7th, 2011, 02:12 PM
#180
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No way the 455 Olds frame mounts will work, way back, way short, and way low.
There are 3 types of adapter plates,
1" setback, these dont share any holes with 4 bolt LS block.
Standard plates share the bottom chevy 3 bolt mount with the bottom front bolt of the LS block.
Then there are the about 1 1/2" forward mounts that share the front top bolt of both mounts.
I think there's a diagram of the last 2 in the LS1tech conversions sticky.
With the muncie I kept the trans/block mounting face as close to stock as possible.
With the setback shifter on your T56, you probably want one of the 2 later plates, chevelle frame mounts, and just drill the crossmember to where ever the correct shifter postition lines up.
As for cruise control, there are some differences in the way the throttle responds between the auto and manual trans cars. It gets a little more complicated with traction control.
In order to keep things simple, I'm trying the 06, 6.0 3500, manual trans stock settings.
There are 3 types of adapter plates,
1" setback, these dont share any holes with 4 bolt LS block.
Standard plates share the bottom chevy 3 bolt mount with the bottom front bolt of the LS block.
Then there are the about 1 1/2" forward mounts that share the front top bolt of both mounts.
I think there's a diagram of the last 2 in the LS1tech conversions sticky.
With the muncie I kept the trans/block mounting face as close to stock as possible.
With the setback shifter on your T56, you probably want one of the 2 later plates, chevelle frame mounts, and just drill the crossmember to where ever the correct shifter postition lines up.
As for cruise control, there are some differences in the way the throttle responds between the auto and manual trans cars. It gets a little more complicated with traction control.
In order to keep things simple, I'm trying the 06, 6.0 3500, manual trans stock settings.
June 7th, 2011, 07:53 PM
#181
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Gary,
I found this Edelbrock info sheet which breaks down the GM A-body frame mounts with descriptions,
and pictures, and matching Energy mounts that work with them. Obviously you already know this info,
but I'm posting it here for others to read in the future.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../6000/6701.pdf
Trying to find a cheap source for the small block Chevelle frame mounts,
cheapest I've found is Tamraz in IL by me for $55.
Do you know of any cheaper sources??
Custom console so the shifter location won't be as important for me to get dead on.
BTW I found a thread you were discussing options you went with in the engine bay.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...-chevelle.html
Someone elses pic.
I found this Edelbrock info sheet which breaks down the GM A-body frame mounts with descriptions,
and pictures, and matching Energy mounts that work with them. Obviously you already know this info,
but I'm posting it here for others to read in the future.
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_.../6000/6701.pdf
Trying to find a cheap source for the small block Chevelle frame mounts,
cheapest I've found is Tamraz in IL by me for $55.
Do you know of any cheaper sources??
BTW I found a thread you were discussing options you went with in the engine bay.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...-chevelle.html
Someone elses pic.
Last edited by Aceshigh; June 7th, 2011 at 08:41 PM.
June 8th, 2011, 05:45 AM
#183
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Hmmmm, seeing as I replaced the entire interior (made everything myself), brakes, all electical, fuel system, added A/C, rebuilt the muncie, rear axle, suspension, steering column, jeep steering box swap, etc..........
I would have thought it would go in the "Major Builds & Projects".
I would have thought it would go in the "Major Builds & Projects".
June 8th, 2011, 11:22 AM
#185
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Hmmmm, seeing as I replaced the entire interior (made everything myself), brakes, all electical, fuel system, added A/C, rebuilt the muncie, rear axle, suspension, steering column, jeep steering box swap, etc..........
I would have thought it would go in the "Major Builds & Projects".
I would have thought it would go in the "Major Builds & Projects".
June 8th, 2011, 09:01 PM
#186
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Don't feed the trolls Gary. Ignore them.
I think I'll wait for the 2nd evaluation....lol
What is your rear gear and tire height ??
What is your rear gear and tire height ??
Last edited by Aceshigh; June 8th, 2011 at 09:04 PM.
June 9th, 2011, 05:26 AM
#187
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26 1/2" tires, 2.73 posi rear end. It's running about 2400 at 70mph.
The muncies 2.6x 1st gear is a little tall with the combo. A 5 speed with around a 3.00 1st and 0.74-0.80 5th would be nice. If I can find a cheap T5, I might try it.
The muncies 2.6x 1st gear is a little tall with the combo. A 5 speed with around a 3.00 1st and 0.74-0.80 5th would be nice. If I can find a cheap T5, I might try it.
June 9th, 2011, 05:53 AM
#189
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Thought about that, Keisler is even making a T45 with GM input shaft.
Problem is the 0.63? OD gear. Way too much with a 2.73 rear. The T5 is a pretty weak trans but can be found with 0.63, 0.74, and 0.8 OD gears cheap. The 0.74 or 0.80 would work nicely. BTW, when I put together my clutch package, I used a pressure plate that would work with a 10 spline or 26 spline disc.
Problem is the 0.63? OD gear. Way too much with a 2.73 rear. The T5 is a pretty weak trans but can be found with 0.63, 0.74, and 0.8 OD gears cheap. The 0.74 or 0.80 would work nicely. BTW, when I put together my clutch package, I used a pressure plate that would work with a 10 spline or 26 spline disc.
June 9th, 2011, 08:16 AM
#190
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One area that just confuses the hell out of me......is why they call the TALLER frame mounts, the short and wide. 
I can't seem to find these ANYWHERE......I bought a set from TAMRAZ yesterday but they are the shorter (Tall and narrows)
From my understanding, the one's on the left are no longer available anywhere. That's the 307 mounts you used correct??
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/7751095-post262.html
You just saved me a post. At least you're aware of that.
I just picked up a used 2006 GTO flywheel last night with 35K on it for $50.....woot.
Had to drive an hour to get it though......kinda blew.
I can't seem to find these ANYWHERE......I bought a set from TAMRAZ yesterday but they are the shorter (Tall and narrows)
From my understanding, the one's on the left are no longer available anywhere. That's the 307 mounts you used correct??
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/7751095-post262.html
You just saved me a post. At least you're aware of that.
I just picked up a used 2006 GTO flywheel last night with 35K on it for $50.....woot.
Had to drive an hour to get it though......kinda blew.
Last edited by Aceshigh; June 9th, 2011 at 09:05 AM.
June 9th, 2011, 09:21 AM
#191
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Tall or short referrs to the motor mount. The tall narrow motor mount fits on the shorter frame mount. Guessing you found the post below, overall height of the combination is about the same. So you should be able to use the Tamraz mounts frame mounts with tall narrow motor mounts.
Get a set from Autozone for a 70-72 chevelle BBC, under $20.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...s-gm-body.html
I saw someone else use these bolted to the BOP mount holes:
http://carshop.carshopinc.com/produc...110328/CSP2380
I used the 307 frame mounts, got them on ebay for $20.
Get a set from Autozone for a 70-72 chevelle BBC, under $20.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...s-gm-body.html
I saw someone else use these bolted to the BOP mount holes:
http://carshop.carshopinc.com/produc...110328/CSP2380
I used the 307 frame mounts, got them on ebay for $20.
Last edited by garys 68; June 9th, 2011 at 09:34 AM.
June 9th, 2011, 11:12 AM
#192
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Get a set from Autozone for a 70-72 chevelle BBC, under $20.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...s-gm-body.html
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conver...s-gm-body.html
I don't see anything in that thread mentioning Autozone. I've read it a few
times this week. I did go to Autozone and they do carry the motor mounts
for a Chevelle for $7.99 a pop
They don't carry the frame mounts, unless you've seen a part # that Autozone uses ??
June 9th, 2011, 12:30 PM
#193
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I was referring to the motor mounts, just get the Autozone tall narrow motor mounts ans use them with your Tamraz frame mounts. You still might need to make spacers, depending on the oil pan.
Get a set of what from Autozone for $20 ??
I don't see anything in that thread mentioning Autozone. I've read it a few
times this week. I did go to Autozone and they do carry the motor mounts
for a Chevelle for $7.99 a pop
They don't carry the frame mounts, unless you've seen a part # that Autozone uses ??
I don't see anything in that thread mentioning Autozone. I've read it a few
times this week. I did go to Autozone and they do carry the motor mounts
for a Chevelle for $7.99 a pop
They don't carry the frame mounts, unless you've seen a part # that Autozone uses ??
June 20th, 2011, 10:11 PM
#195
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July 19th, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Cooling system and all electrics are done. The stock upper and lower radiator hoses fit remarkably well with only a size adapter on top and shortening the bottom a couple inches.
Next is fuel system. Just picked up a 96 caprice tank. It fits pretty well in the Olds, has a 0-90 ohm sender, it's sumped/baffled for efi, and just needs a simple pump swap.
Next is fuel system. Just picked up a 96 caprice tank. It fits pretty well in the Olds, has a 0-90 ohm sender, it's sumped/baffled for efi, and just needs a simple pump swap.
July 19th, 2011, 10:43 PM
#198
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The last 3-4" of frame rail on some cars narrows. I trimmed about 1/4" for an easier fit.
The sending unit/pump sticks up about an inch. I know others have spaced the front edge down, but I cut the trunk and boxed it. I can remove a few screws to get access if the pump goes out.
The original pump is too low pressure and is known for poor wiring. Racetronix makes a kit for $125 that replaces the pump and internal wiring.
The original straps are too short. The caprice ones are supposed to work, but I forgot to ask for them. so I made new ones out of 1 x 1/8" steel.
The sending unit/pump sticks up about an inch. I know others have spaced the front edge down, but I cut the trunk and boxed it. I can remove a few screws to get access if the pump goes out.
The original pump is too low pressure and is known for poor wiring. Racetronix makes a kit for $125 that replaces the pump and internal wiring.
The original straps are too short. The caprice ones are supposed to work, but I forgot to ask for them. so I made new ones out of 1 x 1/8" steel.
July 25th, 2011, 09:35 PM
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How is the clearance from the manifold pipe flange to the rear lower control arm frame mount on the driver's side in the pic below?
Nice clean swap. Always liked the "looks like it belongs there" swaps.
Nice clean swap. Always liked the "looks like it belongs there" swaps.
July 25th, 2011, 11:44 PM
#200
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 904
Plenty of clearance. The pic makes it look close but the flange is well below it.
