garys 68

Update, it's been in the high 90s here for the last couple weeks.
The Classic Auto Air has worked flawlessly. I'm usually running around on the low or mid fan speed. They build a really great product.

garys 68

I've got about 1K miles on the car. The only issue is the trans leak.
The 2.73 rear end gear is great because I use it mostly on the hiway but the Muncies 2.56 1st gear is a bit sluggish off the line.
Anyway, I can get a T10 with a 3.42 1st gear for about $100, that would take my overall ratio from about 7 to 9.3. With the broad torque band of the LS motor, I'm not too worried about the gear spread. If the Muncie is coming out to fix the leak, I might as well swap in the T10.
Any thoughts on the T10?

HWYSTR455

If you've driven a munchie for any time, going to a T10 will require changing yoru driving habits slightly, they flat out don't shift the same. Not saying it 'bad', or whatever, but personally I prefer the way munchies shift.

Brian at SK Speed is the munchie guru, and if you ever plan on upping the power, you may want to consider a super case. Once you go through the trouble of doing a munchie 'right', it will last you a long time.

Going to a 3.42 first in a T10 means the gear spread has 'drops', and unless you're talking about over 500 ftlbs, you're going to feel it. You may improve off the line, but it just gets moved to a different area, and tht can be more frustrating than the off the line thing.

Gear it, or go 5 or 6 speed. Since it's an LS, find a 5 or 6 speed to mate to it is gravy, and not as expensive as a conversion.

.

garys 68

Yeah I know what you mean by the gear spread, but I drive this thing around in 4th without downshifting A LOT. So I could live with that.
Problem with a TKO or T56 is that you gotta cut up the floor. And I just re-did my interior with a center console.
Keislers T45 derivative is a possibility but only comes with about a 0.63 OD. That means a new trans AND rear.
I can find a T5 with a 0.74 or 0.80 OD that would work with the 2.73 rear, but they're pretty weak.
Richmonds non-OD 5 speed would be great, but at $2k + $500 shifter, well you might as well get the Richmond 6 speed OD trans at $3k, shifter included.
I've probably got $9k in the car, so another $3k trans is hard to justify.
So, $100 for the T10, maybe a $100 rebuild kit, $50 for a yoke, and $40 for a 26 spline clutch plate. And I can have the old one out, the new one in on the same day.

garys 68

I picked up the super t10 out of an 82-83 camaro.
Good news is the gears look great. I'm going to get a rebuild kit with syncros and go thru it anyway.
Bad news is the shifter mount looks to be integrated into a torque arm mount. It might take a couple mods to a mounting plate to get the Hurst shifter to work.
DSCN0391.jpg

DSCN0393.jpg

HWYSTR455

You could swap the tailshaft housing for the earlier style and go conventional on the shifter mount....


.

garys 68

I was thinking about that, but was not sure which were interchangable.
This one has the 27 spline output shaft, I know some others are 31. So I wasn't sure if the output shaft would need to be changed too.
You know if all T10 tails are interchangable. They're cheap and easy to find if they are.

HWYSTR455

There may be an issue with the reverse idler, suggest calling a trans guru like Brian at SK Speed.

http://www.skspeed.com

Brian at (631) 957-9427

He is THE munchie guru, and pretty much the 4-speed guru across the board. Super guy too, easy to talk to.

.

garys 68

I was just looking at the tail. I'm thinking all it would take is cutting a new mount plate that pickes up the lower torque arm bolt hole. There are also 2 threaded holes on the other side I can tie into. Should be stronger than the original design.

HWYSTR455

Well, think Hurst and Mr. Gasket both have an adapter plate, but the rods are slightly curved to account for it. Depending on the shifter, it might hang if it's not right, fyi. And worse, could grab 2 gears at once. Think the only 2 'real' options are either replace the tail, or get the shifter plate/adapter. Any other way and you may be just dealing with a frustrating problem for years, until you DO do it right.

.

garys 68

I just put a spare muncie tail housing next to it. It turns out the 2 shifter mount bolt holes in the mid housing are exactly the same between the muncie and T10. The 2 upper holes that are missing have the boss cast and tapped on the opposite side for the torque arm mount. All I have to do is drill thru the upper hole, tap it, and add a spacer. I'm thinking if they're solid enough for a torque arm, they should hold a shifter.
Btw, I did see adapters from Hurst, Speedway, etc but not specifically for the 82-83 T10.

HWYSTR455

Dang! You got lucky! I still suggest calling Brian, might be an easy way to do it, worth a call I would think....

garys 68

I will thanks. I need a T10 rebuild kit and a Muncie super case (rebuilding the muncie). I can check with him on that stuff too.

garys 68

Good news, the gears, shafts, etc look great. Just ordered a rebuild kit with new seals, bearings, synchros.
DSCN0402.jpg

The Wizard of Olds

Just an awesome build and posts......This is my favorite type of build....finding new stuff and readily available parts store parts and making it all work for cheap...just awesome.

i did not see you comment on how your under carpet sound insulation worked? Is it as quiet as you hoped?

I stole your idea for the cooling fans and had my local jumkyard bring me fans from a windstar. Ialso noticed you did not mention anything about overheating, so I assume they worked. Did you wire them all to a temp sensor? The big fan is 2 speed and the small one is high only, did you use them like that? I had a single 12 inch fan on my car a while back and ended up going back to the clutch fan....not enough CFM's from one electric fan in traffic.

I would love to see more finished pictures if you have em!

Thanks for the excellent build!

garys 68

The sound/temp insulation worked great. The car came with some pretty loud new flowmasters, but that's only a problem for the car behind me . And the fatmat really makes everything just feel/sound solid.
The Windstar fans work great. It was over 100 degrees A LOT this summer and this was my daily driver. The temp never got over 200 (196 thermostat). I wired one fan to the ecu. I dont remember the stock setpoints, but I do know it wil continue to run the fan after the engine shuts off if it's over 210. That never happened. The other fan is wired to the AC trinay switch and a separate adjustable temp sensor I added. Both are wired full 12 V. I was not even aware about the 2 speed on these.
There are more engine specific pics over at LS1tech. I think I ruffled enough feathers over here with the LS swap pics .
The little aftermarket fans are good as an add on. I'm using one on my 68 corvette 6.0 LS along with the mechanical fan. But I think the current draw is a pretty good indicator of how much air they flow.
Latest tansmission project is coming along. I got a $100 used T10 with the 3.42 1st gear and the rebuild kit just showed up. I may try to add a 40 tooth reluctor in it so I can get cruise control to work. The Dakota Digital VSS works good enough for the ecu, but does not provide enough pulses per mile for the DBW cruise control to operate smoothly.
If you want any specific pics, just ask.

garys 68

I went thru the super T10. This is the 1st T10 I've done and I'm pretty impressed. All countershafts are 1" with a keyway to prevent movement. The casing is a little thicker and everything seems a little more solid than a muncie.
Anyway, new bearings, seals, gaskets, synchros............
DSCN0403.jpg

And the oddball tail on the 82-83 T10s have the top bosses on the passenger side. I drilled the top 2 thru and added a spacer so the muncie/hurst shifter would bolt on. The 2 lower threaded bosses are the same.
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442scotty

Lots of good info...might have to do this swap in one of my 65's

GothamCity

Awesome build thread. This has motivated me to begin my swap. Currently gathering parts. I have acquired 03 5.3L with 80k DBW,complete harness and PCM. Also just picked up LS1 intake and rails,injectors. My question is 700r4 or 4l60e?? I have been on ls1tech and I have seen swaps with both. I live in Houston and the 700r4 are cheaper than 4l60e's. Since this is a budget swap which is cost effective? I have read that I will need adapter plate to mate ther 700r4 to the engine. Also have read I need a harness for the 4l60e. So for those who've taken plung which is the way to go. Gary I like yours as well as ACES HIGH...guide me wise Ls1 swappers...

garys 68

Big issue with the 700R4 TV cable and DBW, nobody makes any mechanism for an adapter. If you're going DBW, go with a modern electronic trans.
Do a search and ask this question on LS1tech.

GothamCity

Thanks gary68 this is what I was afraid of. thanks for info. Pulled of the truck intake and mocked up the ls1 intake, looks like I will need ls1 intake gaskets.Did you have to relocate your alternator becuase it looks like a snug fit with the trottle body using the ls1 intake

Aceshigh

4L60e would be the smart move. Computer controlled everything.
They can be picked up VERY cheap these days.

Now if you're planning on doing any drag racing or holeshots with ALOT of power
I'd strongly recommend a beefier 4L80e instead.

Or......just get a T-56 and do the 6 speed manual swap which IMO will be more fun.
The downside of that is, you have to change out your rear gears to something higher.
The UPside to of that is, you get more launching power from a dead stop and waaaay better MPG highway.

Mine will be a 12 second, 600 miles per tank, 400-450hp cruiser with the 6 speed and 3.73 gears. (23 gallons x ~26mpg highway)
Try getting that out of a 455.

garys 68

On my intake, it came with the 8 individual O rings attached. You'll need the LS1 intake bolts too.
No interference with the alternator, but depending on the year, you may have some with the water pump. What year/motor are you working with?

GothamCity

Thanks for the advice...I have a 04 5.3 I took of the intake last night to mock the ls1 in..man it sure looks sweet.

GothamCity

I was leaning towards the 4l60e, thanks for advice....I just plan on doing stock everything maybe a bigger cam....might even go exhaust manis...headers maybe....I have a 01 yukon and that beast pulls hard and its still quick in relative terms and she has 165 k!!!

garys 68

The 04 truck DBW TB wont clear any truck water pump inlet. You have a few choices.
Use an LS1 waterpump with 3/4" spacers.
Use the L99 camaro pump.
Press the f body pulley farther off the shaft
Swap the truck pulley on f body pump (what I did)
or buy one already done
http://www.foxlinders.com/accessories/waterpump.html
I swapped pulleys since I would be using a Kwik AC compressor bracket with truck spacing. The other solutions would require bracket mods.

One clarification, the alternator wont interfere with the LS1 intake TB, but the idler pulley part of the bracket will. Just cut that part off.

GothamCity

Ok good info..went back to junkyard and picked up 4l60e from same truck got the vin and it is an 03 model afterall, grabbed the TAC module too.

garys 68

Hope you got the pedal too. I cut the truck pedal shorter and it fits nicely.
DSCN0363.jpg

Wyze

I'm loving this thread!!!!!!
Really got me thinking!!!!

garys 68

Wyze, are you in the StL area? If so, just let me know if you want to check out my build.

Wyze

Yeah buddy, I be everywhere around the city but I live near I270 & Olive!!!!
I would love to check out your car and also ask some questions if that's possible!!!
I have also been following you like twitter and I see you do some very good work!!!! Lol
That PVC for the panels was some slick stuff!!!!
Keep up the good work!!!!!

Wyze

garys 68

Well this is my DD, and since I've been working in your area, you might see me driving by.
Otherwise, just let me know if you want to stop by and check it out.

garys 68

Just an fyi on these 5.3s.
I was accelerating onto the hiway and hit a chunk of truck tire that even with all the soundproofing and insulation I could tell hit and got caught on the bottom of the car.
Pulled over and pulled part of a melted tire off the exhaust and crossmember. Get back in the car....stuck in 3rd gear....DOH!
Try to find more debris stuck in there...burn my left arm....DOH.....get back in the car swearing up a storm with a burn and black tire gunk all over me.
Drove it home, highway, then 5 miles of stop and go, didn't have to let the clutch slip too much, engine never stall, bucked, etc. and that's with a 2.73 rear. You gotta love the torque range and smoothness of these motors.
Btw, got it back on ramps. Not sure what happened, no tire chunk stuck, but it took a good whack on the 3rd shift lever (sifter unattached) to get it out of 3rd. Runs and shifts fine now.

Wyze

Sounds great, I'll pm you my number!!!!
I don't know if you've seen the ad on CL for the 5.3 but my bro bought it yesterday to put in his 85 t top Cutlass!!!!!
He's also a poster on here, LS and Pro Touring his name is Veltboy 314!!!!!

garys 68

Ha...I saw his post there.
His ecu is a 411, so 02 is about right. Other good news, that ecu works with cable or DBW, and auto or manual trans.
I'll get ahold of you when I get back in town next week.

veltboy618

veltboy618 haha

I read through this thread a couple times! Im loving the '72... Nice work. I'm new to this LS engine thing so I have been doing a whole lot or reading trying to get this thing figured out. The first thing I want to tackle is the wiring & get that out of the way. Do you have any good sites that has the breakdown for removing what's not needed?

garys 68

Everything you need to strip down the harness to essentials.
http://www.lt1swap.com/
Oh and I figured out the 618 thing.....

veltboy618

I have been reading on that site.

On this page http://lt1swap.com/99-02_vortec_pcm.htm do I remove all of the wires that are not highlighted to make a stand alone harness? I see you can either remove all of the emissions stuff or leave it. Do everyone doing these LS swaps do away with the emissions or do they keep the emissions stuff connected? Is it better to take it all out or keep it?

GothamCity

Gary,
Since you've done the swap I have found a shop here in Houston that will do the swap fro $1500.00 which includes getting the exhaust connected,all wiring and completly running. I will provide all major stuff lm7/460le,ls1 intake,f-body water pump,ls1 oil pan,f-body exhaust manis,f-body shifter, modified wiring harness,and flash ecm, my mounts, tranny, motor and converter bolts.and theyll also pull exsisting olds350/th350...Good deal or is that high???

Aceshigh

It's fair. But I'd make sure I know who is modifying the harness and computer.
If they don't know WTF they're doing it won't work right.

My quote (Chicago market) for labor on my 2nd gen Camaro's LS1 / 4L60e retrofit was $1,000 in 2006.
I supplied the following:

FUEL SYSTEM:
Modified fuel tank with Bosch 420 pump
All Russell fuel fittings,
All new fuel lines,
Corvette fuel regulator

COOLING:
New LS1 radiator (I forgot that I needed an electrical fan)

DRIVETRAIN:
LS1 / 4L60 fully accessorized combo from a GTO
F-body oil pan with all necessary parts
Trans Dapt motor mounts
Speartech modified harness
Speartech modified computer
Most sensors but no MAF

The nickel dime stuff is where you're going to bleed more from your wallet unless it's specifically
outlined in the quote. If you don't know what those things are, this is where you'll get pinched.

These are areas you need to make sure you have covered besides the above items.
Air intake tubing and air filter.
MAF Sensor and any others missing
Mounts, frame and engine
Electrical cooling fan.

By the time I left the shop even including ALL of the parts I pre-bought and gave them my bill
was over $3,000. It included new headers, new alternator relocation kit, new oil pump, and
the other things above I needed but didn't know about.

This is why I'm doing my 2nd swap myself.