Hey Al,

Can you go into some detail about the upper-differential control arm removal?

I was looking at mine this morning (yay Canadian turkey day) and it seems that one pair of bushings are pressed into the control arms. And the other are pressed into the differential??

Confused...

 

Happy Thanksgiving Tony.
The upper control arms only have 1 bushing in each. You are 100% correct that the 'ears' of the differential have the other 2. If you look at these pics you can see how the control arm simply acts as the cup that the bushing bolt secures them with. Your bushings are probably as bad as mine were.

I remember the corrosion problems you had with the shocks and gas tank, and I'm worried about (frankly) ALL the control arm bushing bolts and nuts on your car. Hopefully they will break loose. Use some good penetrating oil like PB Blaster (not WD40) to get in there. It MAY help, but it has to go a long way through the bushing. On the + side, you may get lucky like I did and it undoes easily. BTW you wouldn't recognize my diff now that its cleaned up and almost finished painting. This was prior to about 10 hours of cleaning, grinding and sanding.

I know it's a lot of extra work, but I found that doing this with the gas tank out made it MUCH easier. You already have experience with the gas tank and know how to drain and drop it pretty quick, right? Besides you have all new hardware holding the tank and shocks too.


This is the bushing - half removed. I drilled out the rubber and collapsed the sleeve. It is a very tight fit and will need to be pressed out; it just doesn't respond well to a BFH. Once it breaks the rust bond and starts moving the hammer and drift will take it out.


Word of caution Tony. You know the shocks have to come out first. Then support the diff with a jack, Do the lower control arms first. I couldn't get the back bushing bolts out so I had to take out the front ones. It's a bear of a job with just one person, but do-able.

Then break the upper bolts/nuts loose, but don't remove them. That will be the only things that are holding that up besides the jack. There's a good write up on this earlier in my thread, provided by Brian (69442C) that I used and found very helpful. Also look at the pics I posted taking it out.

BTW, if you have to cut any of the control arm bolts I will have some spares (except for the front shoulder bolt that goes through the frame, so don't mess that one up) Hopefully this will help you in your planning.

Here are 2 more pics that show tank in, and convenience of tank out. IIRC you will only have to work around the exhaust on the right side?

 

Tony, P.S. Watch your foot.

 

Well, the differential is about 90% or better complete. A few outstanding items to reinstall. Kept a picture file documentation of the steps to get where it is now. Fresh out of the car and pressure washed, it really doesn't look that bad, unless you're me. I wanted it to be a lot nicer. This was back on a nice September warm day! I don't remember how that feels as of late.


Other side. BTW, Tony - take a look at the 'ears' on the diff and you can see those bushings really clearly


I sanded down part of the axle tube to find the SA O 101 coding on the axle. That corresponds perfectly to the 2.73 gears in an Olds axle. The 101 is the date of manufacture. I looked up the final assembly date on my car, and taking into account it was a leap year, that 101 matches the Monday April 10, 1972 my car was built. I'm inclined to think that all the axles were code stamped such as SA O and the 101 was punched by the line assembly workers installing them. You can see how much accumulated gunk, overs pray and undercoating left a very rough finish on the axle tube, shock and control arm mounts.


A shot of the bottom of the differential housing. Want to guess what it's coated with??


Preliminary sanding on the axle shaft. I ended up having to use a grinder, then palm sander, wire wheels (for some areas like the brake tube clips) scrapers, and finally sandpaper to smooth out this mess. The axle vent tube was supposed to be replaced at AD, but they didn't do that either. So I experimented with it. Very easy to remove. Gently clamp with pliers and wiggle side to side while gently lifting upward. Pop! Out it comes. I put it back in for now till I get a new one.

 

Right side tube and mounts. Lots of stuff to remove here


and here


The good news is a grinder makes that stuff go away fairly fast. Just have to be careful and let the grinder to the work. Using pressure on grinder was only needed in a few select areas. I didn't like the slag that was left on the housing because there was a lot of rough shards. Most of it got ground off. That also creates a lot of heat soooo, got to watch what you're doing. WEAR ALL YOUR SAFETY GEAR when you're grinding (coveralls, gloves, safety glasses, hearing protection, head protectin and duhhh, steel toe boots.)

Do NOT wear sneakers like I did because when this sucker falls off it's stand and lands on your foot, you're not going to want to just say, Darn it!


Lots of painstaking back bending work. You need to have an end goal to make this vision worth working on.


So now I have documentation on all the casting and stampings on my rear differential and axles. From here to the backing plates.

 

It seems like a "once upon a time, there was an Olds guy named Allan R who wanted to do something nice to his car" story.... Almost like a fairy tale that I started a long time ago.

Didn't I warn you guys when this thread was started it would go this way? That's why I added 'another MAW disaster' to the title. I think you guys almost know to expect that from me by now.

So finally after about 10 hours of cleaning, I was ready to start painting. BUT, the weather here has gone south. Dammit! Never fear, my friend Brian (69442C) sent me info on how to make the cool/cold work for you. I ended up calling it 'flash painting'.

Goes like this: The metal I need to paint is cold. Figures - the temp was less than 45°F (that's around 8°C up here) and windy. Close the garage door and work in good lighted conditions. Opened the side window of the garage an inch for needed ventilation.

Fire up the propane torch and proceed to heat the areas I need to paint first. That was around the axle tubes close to the housing. It was incredible. The surface of the tubes instantly turned wet from condensation and then burned dry. Proceed around the tube and get it nice and warm. Decided to do as much as possible with each side at a time. Spray with high temp semi gloss engine enamel. Let skin and then flash heat the surface keeping the flame far enough from the fresh paint to just evaporate the evaporating keytones. Worked like a charm. As you can see the axle is perfectly smooth, the shock and control arm mounts are easily as good as they would have been coming from the factory -maybe better


There are obviously some places were it was almost impossible to get clean using my methods. I suppose I could have taken it to a sandblaster and paid 100.00 to do this, but I need to run a tighter reign on my spending so this is as good as it gets for the $$ I have to spend on it.


Anyway, I repeated the process for the pinion yoke - being careful not to heat the seal directly and shot the pinion yoke in cast. For proper detail I also taped off the pinion nut so it would retain the factory look. I'm seriously thinking of shooting a coat of satin clear over the nut - maybe the whole housing to further protect it.


Next, flash the housing. Mask off the axle tubes around the housing and paint away. This was working so well, it was almost like working in 70+ heat. The paint and metal were getting along really well. By now some of you may recognize what I'm trying to simulate here.

 

Today was the finishing touches. I needed to flip the differential over to shoot the other side and get it perfect. Being very careful not to damage any of the curing paint was a labor of love, let me tell you.

I suppose I could clean up the diff cover in the sand blaster and re-use it. You know - just paint it silver or something? But that aluminum paint I used on the diff housing just looked soooo good I had to do something special. Almost like I'd been planning this for a few years? Popped open the trunk of the car and took out the box with the new cover. Yup, even came with a new gasket and mounting bolts. Lined it up and stepped back. It was stunning. I can't tell you how happy I am that it turned out so well. The backing plates and axles will go on last. For now I'll let this cure for awhile.

Thanks a million to Brian for his painting tips and behind the scene help on this. Joe? Thanks for keeping the secret on the PM's we exchanged and the pics of your twins you emailed me. So do you think it looks close? I know the machining on the W27 axle is different, ribs are different and different part number/casting. This is not a W27 but all I really wanted was a rear axle and differential that stood out from all the rest.










So now I just have to install the backing plates, axles, brake hardware and snubbers and she's ready for her new home. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Finish blasting the control arms and (Yay - my favorite) press in the bushings.

 

Wow, Allan...someone else from the local Olds club has been watchin this MAW project with great interest! I'm eatin' my heart out seeing the final results. I can only imagine how it looks in person!! Love the detail, Bil S.

 

Thanks Bil
It's still got a ways to go before it's installed, so keep yourself in the loop. With luck some of the parts that didn't get shipped on my last order from the US will show up this week. Can hardly wait to seal up the axles. Right now I need the backing plate to axle gaskets and they were missed. So were the snubbers. So it will likely be control arm and bumper stuff for a bit.

Were you at the Rocket Roundup this year? Hoping to have this done shortly so I can start driving/testing it next year. LOL just went from using 1/2 tank of gas to get there to 3/4.

 

Wow, WOW! Allan that is amazing! Thank you for the bug! Apparently Joe and Richard (oldsmorat) are going to help me change gears and do a disc brake conversion on mine in November. And Richard just sold me some racing control arms and frame reinforcements dirt cheap...so while I have it out to change all of that, I'm going to have to duplicate what you've done.

Thank you SO VERY MUCH for all of your detail, it will help me I'm sure.

 

great work! you have gotten me excited to start on my car. it is killing me because i want to start on it now but not even close to ready financially.

 

Great Job Allan!! Nice to see a well thought out plan come together and then hear that you may have exceeded your own expectations.

Hope you are having a great Thanksgiving!

Brian

 

Steve, you're welcome. It's a lot of work, glad you'll have help and nice weather to boot. I have other photos that I've not posted. I'm sure you'll figure stuff out, but if you get stuck, you have my email.

Jeepers Eric! Doesn't take much to get you excited does it? Glad you feel motivated, and I'm happy to share. Don't rush into this - you know how the $$ is - use it wisely. Besides, you just happen to have all the parts everyone else would kill for. The braces you sold me cleaned up nice if you check back in the thread.

Thank you Brian. I appreciate all the behind the scene information you've shared to make this a reality for me. You and I both know this is far from being over though.

 

Allan, great job! Now to install the bushings. Just remember not to use a hammer.

 

Seriously Allan, I would like to put my two cents worth in here and offer some advice from someone who has over 40 years experience as a mechanic.
Take this driveshaft, with it's plastic retained U-joints, and hang it over your fireplace (or at least in your garage) .
THEN, get another 68-72 "A" body 2 door driveshaft. Clean it up good and paint it, and install two NEW U-joints!
Put THIS one under the car. Why?
1. The U-joints are 40 years old.
2. The only grease they ever got, or will ever get, was 40 years ago when they were assembled.
3. The little rubber seals that hold the grease in and the water and dirt out are 40 years old and probably getting brittle.
4. Years ago I towed a car into my service station that had broken a front U-joint and "dropped" the driveshaft. The shaft started to plow into the ground, broke the rear joint and proceeded to go through the backseat. and was sticking out of the back window. Fortunately no one was in the backseat!

'Nuff said? Thanks, Charlie

 

Diff came out great! Give yourself a pat on the back...
And someone is bringing some more MAWs to the table - them u-joints! Just don's smash your thumb when beating them out like I once did...

 

Allan, That's the pretties rear I ever saw.

 

Like me pounding the putty knife in between the sheet metal on my fenders when I was drilling the spot welds out ! I hit my thumb so many times , that just the touch of the hammer after that sent my senses into a frenzy ! . I have to tell you Allan ..... That axle really turned out great ! I mean REALLY ! I love how the aluminum paint turned out ! .... but here's the downer .... You may want to think about the u-joint thing If he's right , I don't even want to think about what could happen ! You always have good judgement , so let me ( Mr. Risk Taker ) find out the hard way , so all of you can start a thread on my experiences , and call it ..... " The What Not To Do ! " Thread .

I really do need to start this thread over soon , and read it from the beginning , because I missed things " skim reading " . The same with Robs threads . This may take a few years at this point now !

 

I thought this sort of talk was not allowed here !

 

Nice work Allan. I take pride in doing a good job, you go about ten steps beyond.

 

Thanks, Rob, Jim, Bryan and Mike. Still more to do as you know.

Charlie, I seriously thought about what you said even before you said it. If there was any doubt in my mind about the condition of the u-joints they would have been torched and pressed out of there at the get go. I did inspect the grease seals on cups that were free and they appear to be very good and have retained the grease. You would actually have to see and feel the action of these units to understand why I'm keeping them.

I've heard stories like the one you described, and I'll accept the implications it conveys as God's Truth. But, that was one car out of how many tens of thousands in over 40 years? This is NOT a high mileage car, and will not be driven hard either. I've had cars go over 250K with no u joint failure at all. I think it depends a lot on the initial quality, wear and tear more than age. This car has been basically stored in ideal conditions for 26 years and before that it only really had light use. I could still put new u joints in the existing driveshaft but that's no guarantee; anything mechanical or electrical won't fail - even a brand new u joint. So with due respects, I thank you and sincerely appreciate your concern but I'll be keeping these till they show or sound like they need replacing. I am one of those people who does a thorough inspection of the car at the beginning, during and end of the season.

You mean to say you've got another drive shaft sitting waiting for me to install u joints on?

 

That diff housing looks great Allan. Keep up the amazing work.

 

I was thinking the same thing you said Allan. I was going to say something about the U-joints, but then I figured, if you ended up doing a pole vault with new joints, how much did you gain? Everything is a risk, even with new parts, and you know your car and how you're going to drive it better than anyone. I'm not dismissing either point, just saying that I am very careful with some things, and take risks with others, just like anyone else.

 

Allan, the driveshaft in the silver car is the original one with all the original U-joints. It's holding up just fine behind 550 ft/lbs of torque and my lead foot...I think you're fine. Awesome job on everything so far, I love it!

 

Sorry Allan, I don't have a driveshaft for you. I was merely suggesting that you keep your original driveshaft for display purposes and get another used and re-furbished one to drive with.
In my 46 years of repairing cars,trucks, and buses I have seen thousands of U-joint failures. Most of them just squeak to death and as their tolerances loosen will cause a driveline vibration that will drive their owners to have them replaced. However, I have seen quite a number of them fail completely and the results were always catastropic.
The worst example was the one I cited previously, but, I can guarantee you that if a U-joint breaks there will always be more parts damaged than just the U-joint.
On the subject of new joints vs. used originals you are right, any joint can fail. However, being a betting man I would lay the odds on a used joint that you think might be OK vs. a new, properly installed joint, at about 100 to one for failure.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in doing whatever you decide to do. Charlie

 

Like this one Chebby guy back in the day that I didn't like . I got the pleasure of seeing his driveshaft bounce up and down off the bottom of his car after he attempted a nuetral drop trying to show off

 

Wow!!! Great job, Allan R! Your rearend is gorgeous!! Jamesbo is right, it does look better than mine, lol. Wish I could do stuff like that to Teepo.

 

I get in trouble everyday dropping my kids off at school looking at rear ends , so get your minds out of the gutter !

Oh and let me clarify that i'm talking about the moms !

 

What happened to??



Thats what positraction is for

 

X2 , granted you pick a safe place or time to do so . I'm not much for sitting in one place spinning my wheels , like doing a brake stand . How ever hard she spins the tires off the line is cool though

as far as the pic above .... That's a good way to break a chebby lol

 

Charlie, thank you. I know your comments were aimed at overall safety and that means a lot to me. Trust me when I say I will monitor the situation very carefully. I really do appreciate your comments and experience. 46 years?? Wow, you must have been born turning wrenches; Good for you to have that long a career! I find it impressive that you have worked more than most of the folks on this site have been alive. Now I feel woefully inadequate retiring after only 39 years in the work force.

Sandy - thank you. You can do this to TPO too if you could get Blue to help you? Don't know what's happened to him. He was here for a bit and seems to have dropped off again. FWIW, it's a lot of work, so do it when you won't miss your show schedules. If you like the way TPO drives, basically all you need to worry about is control arm bushings and changing the differential fluid. That will simplify the project to a lot less than what I've gone through. The unfortunate part about doing that is the relentless MAWs that follow. Eg: change the rear diff hose, change the rubber fuel lines to the evap cannister (7 of them) and the main fuel hose. Trust me girl, this list just seems to never end. The good thing is there's only so many parts on a car

Tony - that's not hard for a 350 with a new 3.42 posi rear end and upgraded suspension. I look forward to your rear suspension project this winter!

Bryan? - tsk tsk tsk, you're looking at the wrong rear ends; THAT will definitely get you into trouble. Let's stay focused here.....

 

Allan, I pictured exactly this when you started....put the new u -joints in !....we all know that this WILL be you sooner or later

Ted

 

Allan you must of been posting when I was just now , check out my Chebby bash comment on Tony's post above

 

I started working after school as a mechanic's helper in a Chevy,Pontiac, and Buick dealership in 1966. I was 16.
I did pre-delivery inspections and cleanups on a lot of these same kind of cars that you guys work on when they were NEW!
I just recently retired. OH!!,That's right! A mechanic never retires! There is always someone who needs something (friend, relative, neighbor, etc.). The only one's that fully retire are the poor unfortunate souls who get so crippled up that they can't do nothing!!

 

Its the best i could do on short notice, especially on my phone, in a meeting

 

Charlie - You and I are close to the same age, and sounds like we both share some of the same values. I was 16 when my car was built and sadly only really saw the car as a means of transport and chick pick up at the time. Congrats on your 'retirement'. I know that since I did, I've found more things to do than that Carter has liver pills. X2 on keeping busy.

 

Well it looks like by time I get back to TX you will have that car back together again!
Keep up the good work and keep it safe.

 

Sure hope so. I was just talking to John - he said you were headed his way to do some property shopping. Hope you find what you're looking for. Wish I could be there for the BBQ. Are you taking Lady to show John?

 

Allan, (got it right that time) all I can say is that looks AMAZING!! And in the words of Dr Suess. " Go Dog Go"!

 

No, not driving the long haul; flying into Portland. I guess being unemployed I COULD have driven, but getting across TX is the most boring.
Gotta update my frequent flier miles anyway before they expire. Almost have enough for a trip to Europe...
See you back at the end of the month!