scooter123

Well Al I just went through all the details in your build......man you pay close attention to every detail!!!

Great work me boy......its going to be a beautiful car!!!!

JCMC64

Yep, just finished it, just caught the tucking her into bed for the winter comment.

I reread Oldzzy and your thread this w\e...HOLY SHIITZ!! Ive been so busy lost in my own world on my rig, stopped reading for a long time. MAN you guys are detail nuts!! Nice getting caught up on your car again. You gave me lots of ideas and now considering the silver pumpkin idea. I like my uncoated cast allot, was thinking clear on it, but now reconsidering that idea since yours came out so nice. And I also would use your black idea on the axles, but I think Im going to jump up to 30 spline posi\custom axles there. Your good tips on rear CAs will definitely come in handy soon! Great job. Great write ups.

But also reminds me how far I still got to go!!!

And yep, there is no time off down here...you just keep working till your fingers bleed! I really could use some winter time off right about now though. But its like allot of things, like going to the gym, once you stop it can be very hard to get going again...especially when you got so far to go still.

JCMC64

Allan, what gloss level did you use Krylon white wise, and what number paint is it?
I bought both Krylon 51508 Semi gloss white, and 2120 Gloss white...didnt want to make second trip! Thx.

oldzzy

If i had to guess, i would say he used the gloss. I used the gloss on mine, and it looks like the same sheen. I'm sure he'll chime in tho.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Man,

i've got alot of reading to do to catch up on this thread....

MDchanic

Most light reflectors that are painted are painted with flat paint to make the reflection more even, but you can do it any way you prefer.

- Eric

oldzzy

When i removed my lights, they were definitely not a flat paint, they had a shine to them.

MDchanic

Take a look inside your instrument cluster.

______________________________________

I don't know with any certainty whether the factory painted signal lights gloss or flat inside, but from an optical perspective flat makes more sense.

As I say, it's up to the car owner.

- Eric

pogo69

with 12,100 and something posts i'm surprised you even remembered you had a car....

oldzzy

I thought we were talking about reverse lights not gauges? Maybe they were supposed to be flat, i don't know. I just know mine weren't.

MDchanic

Same concept.

You've got a non-focused reflector and are looking for an even light to be visible to the viewer.
A light-colored, flat-surfaced reflector will reflect the light more evenly than a glossy one, which may have hot spots, especially if not formed into a smooth reflective shape (such as the inside of an instrument cluster or a back-up light - they're uneven and not even round).

- Eric

Allan R

Jim, I used the Krylon gloss. As the paint hardens it 'shrinks down flatter' onto the metal and looks a lot better than the photo. Bottom line is I also wanted a paint that is a rust inhibitor too. Could have gone with any bright white, but preferred the Krylon. Only thing I really don't like about it is the excessively long dry/cure time.

Shane - exactly right. I based my decision on what was on the inside too. It was definitely not flat, but a brilliant white. Probably the surface was originally high gloss, but when I opened it up after 41 years it was high semi gloss so I just went gloss.

Ah, Eric. The inside of the cluster pods are light blue, not white. That's an area that most people overlook during a resto. Rob Young brightened up his dash lights. Not by changing to white, but by changing FROM white on the repro tach to blue. White is NOT that great for illumination on the dash. I've checked many GM dash gages at the boneyard and they are a light sky blue color inside.

MDchanic

Yes, they're sky blue to give the desired instrument color at night, BUT they're also flat, not glossy.

- Eric

Allan R

Jim, sorry. I just went and looked. Not Krylon - that's what I used last year on the front signal lights. The product I used on these is Rustoleum Painters Touch Ultra Cover gloss white. Claims to have 2X the coverage so less coats needed. Still did 2 though. It's also a lot faster drying.

MDchanic

Are you sure you don't have the paints backward Allan?

In the US, regular Krylon is the very fast drying one (usually about 15 minutes), while RustOLeum is the forever-drying one that takes more than a day.
Could be something's different about the Canadian versions.
- Eric

oldzzy

Rustoleum is fast drying. That is what i used as well.

MDchanic

Something's odd then.
Maybe you're using a different formulation, like for a different region or something.

Every can of RustOLeum I've ever used has taken an infuriatingly long time to dry.
It's why I avoid it most of the time.

- Eric

Allan R

Nope. I'm 100% positive. The Krylon I used for the front signal lights took 'forever' to cure. More than 3 days and that included leaving them out in the sun. One of the reasons I experimented with the Rustoleum Painters Choice. Very happy with the Rustoleum and recommend it highly.
I highly doubt there's any difference in production for a Canadian Market. Just has to be properly labelled/packaged for TDG (Hazmat in US) requirements and include French instructions as part of our 'official languages' legislation.

oldzzy

This is what i use most of the time when i use Rustoleum. Krylon also seems to dry fairly quickly. The only thing i have had issues with when it comes to drying time was Temclad gloss, and the chrome paint i used. That paint took FOREVER to dry!

MDchanic

Okay, then there's some sort of a regional difference going on.

Krylon has been known as the fast-drying paint since its inception.
When we were kids, my brother stole and exhausted it by the case onto the sides of subway cars, and one of the main reasons it was the most popular graffiti paint for most applications was its fast-drying quality.
I have been buying and using Krylon since the 1970s, and have used it as recently as this year, and have never known it to dry slowly - it's always "Wow - it's dry already!"
Now, they have reformulated some of their colors and changed the labels a bit in the past 2-3 years, as well as introducing a large number of "specialty" paints (like one that's supposed to bond to plastic), but the regular-old-Krylon is still fast-drying, as far as I know, at least in the Northeast US (now I'll have to buy a can and check it ).

Here's the Krylon I have found to be fast-drying:



and here's its older label:



Here's the RustOLeum that I've found takes over a day to dry:



I am actually feeling a bit perplexed by this.

- Eric

Allan R

Eric, I tried the 'new look' Krylon and the older style.
1. The new stuff? Absolute crap. I bought some to repaint the fuel clamps on my 72. Followed the instructions on the can 100%. That stuff comes out in spits and globs. Maybe a faulty can?? Anyway it also took the better part of 5 hours till it was dry enough not to leave finger prints. You couldn't pay me to use that crap again. I returned it to the store and got my $$ back. I still have globs of yellow on the floor dispersed out over 4' from where it was used. Not impressed at all.

2. The older stuff? It has a nice flow from the nozzle, but I found it was very thin and runny even after shaking the hell out of it for 10 minutes. It works, but Holy Mother Mary, you need to be doing tack coat after tack coat for hours on end to get good results. Nope - never going to use it again.

The Rustoleum I used was this kind only in gloss. It has one of those new style nozzles that gives excellent spray pattern and even distribution. I'm a big fan of it now:

MDchanic

Different RustOLeum. I've never seen that one before.

As for Krylon nozzles, yeah, they were never the best, but you can swap them out for other brands, or "modify" them for specialty uses.

I've never had trouble with Krylon covering well, so, well... weird, I guess.

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Actually those repro gauges were not painted at all in side!
One was natural metal, one was metal & black - top choices for darkness.
I painted the insides with - - - - - - - - gloss white!
I then painted the reflector rings baby blue - semigloss, then added some to the insides until i got the right color.
My parking lights were repainted in gloss white too and made em nice and bright.
I tried flat white in one gage and later with gloss - the gloss won. That reinforced my long-belief that "shiny is good!

Allan R

LOL Rob. Shiny is also faster which is why I don't like my car to be dirty!! Thanks for chiming in on the gage comment. I will be using that thread when I rebuild my rallye pac. Also have to take out the dash pad to drill it for the seat belt light pod. Might play with painting the inside of that area light blue or white too.

Lady72nRob71

Start out all gloss white and start adding baby blue in small amounts at the reflector ring until you get the hue you want. It took me a while but was worth it.

JCMC64

Alan, started at page 9 or so and didnt find the wiring fix you did. I found the restoring the TL housings, but not the wiring fix. Did I miss it? Thx.

JCMC64

Or you could just go with a nice set of these:

kitfoxdave

Allen: do you have a picture of the shields mounted/installed over the tail light housings on the rear bumper? I am putting mine back together and forgot which holes they mounted to! (going LED with mine...wiring, solder, new harness! ...MAW...!!!!!!!!)

Allan R

Jim
Are those c clip axles? Sorry I can't help with that. If you contact Jim Mitchske (monzaz) or Brian Trick (507OLDS) they can walk you through the C clip install. As you noted mine have that plate for bolting them in place.

kitfoxdave
The shields actually have a stamping on them labelling 'TOP'. Mine aren't installed yet because I'm not ready with the bumper. Season closed to soon last fall. What I can do is help you with this diagram from the AM. It clearly shows the shield bolted to the outside flange of the lower (bigger) light pod. The shield goes on the outside of the bumper tab and the pod should fit snugly on the inside, then bolt em up.

kitfoxdave

Thanks Allen, that is what I thought... Could not find the #$#%$#% page in my manual in my rush fighting daylight! Really appreciate the help! I'm going to post a couple pictures on my build....

Sampson

I may be wrong but I think the consistency and drying. Time may vary depending on color and gloss.

JCMC64

Huh?? I was just joking around, you were complaining about time it took to clean your axles\hubs and I made a joke about just buying some new ones.
No, these are custom made Moser bolt ons (some call them drop, or drop outs) for 71-72 corporate 8.5 BOP rears.

And on the Krylon vs Rustoleum front. I have used both in the past 6 months extensively, going on 40 cans total now. The Krylon nozzles are garbage, that is what the splatter you experienced was from. I always get extra nozzles at the counter, (thats where some stores down here keep them, to stop people from test spraying them),,,,I get the extra nozzles for that reason of splatter. I always test each can first to see the spray pattern. This week I had that splatter nonsense happen, and I just pulled off the nozzle and tried different one (same type, just different one). And then it sprayed clean. Ive never had one Rustoleum do that since I started this project. So Rusto has better Oual control than Krylon it seems. But the splatter issue is definitely the nozzle, not the paint. I also notice the Krylon sprays thicker and is definitely quicker drying by leaps and bounds. There seems to be more air in the Rusto mixture too allowing for mistakes in thickness. When you get used to Rusto and then go to Krylon, you can run your paint if not careful since there is a different mixture paint to air, learned that the hard way. Use thinner coats with Krylon, adjust your coverage. Ive also tested both for recoat time...Rusto says 48 hours, Krylon says 24 hrs. Ive proven both are pretty accurate in recoat time. Ive reshoot both just before the time as a test, and both test krinkled the original coats. I then waited just after both reccommended wait times and both were fine. I found that pretty cool. But then again Im just learning the nuances of painting.

So does that mean chemicals in Krylon dissipate faster? Or are there different chemicals\paint all together?

Allan R

Good one Jim! Naw I wasn't complaining about the axle cleanup. Believe it or not cleaning those axles and replacing the wheel studs helped me learn more. I just went and looked at the pic of your axles (which look gorgeous BTW) and saw the bolting plate on the right side. Duhhhh....so it will bolt up just like we talked about on your thread.

I don't use Rustoleum or Krylon much so the whole thing is really not a big deal to me. Just hated the way the Krylon sprayed and 'didn't dry fast'. The Rustoleum worked much better. Could be what you and Eric both said about formulations.

I think this year I'll be buying an HVLP spray gun so I can start turning out better paint jobs on some parts (like the rad support). I've got plenty of air now with that new compressor; just have to buy the right gun and practice technique on some old sheet metal.

JCMC64

Yeah, I got the whole setup already. But I dont know squat about paint really to that degree. My son is supposed to be the one that takes this on, but him being 21, it always seems he has MANY competing interest. Iow - he always blows me off. I keep telling myself its time to put it all together and start shooting some stuff to learn, but its very intimidating. Im just getting the hang of rattle cans! I enjoy painting a little more as I go, because since I was a kid, I never really got the full hang of it. Just this past year I started to learn just the basics, about temp\humidity, thickness of coats etc. I mean the bare minimum basics here!!
Thats why I love powder coating. Take it to them, and let them worry about it!
As well as how durable it comes out. You can take a hammer to it almost.

JCMC64

Al, can you post a couple good pics of the exhaust system in the area where it bends up and over axles? Im interesting to see how centered the exhaust humps are in relation to the axle tubes, looking at it from the wheel wells. ( your photos of this dont really show it enough ) Mine are not centered, but still clear as axles tubes go up. Thx.

texxas

Eric my experience equals yours using those exact paints bought here in Dallas, Texas and Allan's seems reversed. I guess I could have saved time and just typed, X2.

Allan R

Well it's past spring so it's time to bring this thread out of hibernation. Might be a little slow but oh well.

When we last left this project, the sway bar was found to be the wrong size, in spite of being ordered as a 1" bar that would fit a 64-72 GM A body. HA! Fat chance.

So during the winter I did some shopping on line and found a replacement sway bar. It is a 7/8" bar and came from an A body so it's going to fit. I compared it to the 1" bar I have and noted some distinct differences.

Listed here in case anyone runs into a similar bind:

1. The OEM sway bar has a different bend below the differential. It's more of a 'compound' or double bend so the area under the diff is 'flat'. The 1" reproduction bar is simply a gentle V bend.




2. The ends of the sway bar where it curves forward is shaped differently on OEM, whereas the reproduction bar appears to have a reverse bend to drop the level of the attachment side. That reverse bend also pushes the end of the bar out at least 1/2" more than the OEM on each side which makes it impossible to fit the space between the boxed control arms. For reference, the OEM bar is on top for both pictures.
Drivers side:


Passenger side:


3. The width of the OEM bar is signifcantly less than the reproduction.
* OEM * 40 1/4" at widest point. 38" (outside to outside) on front holes and 40" at rear holes
* Repro * 41 1/8" at widest point. 38" (outside to outside) on front holes and 41" at rear holes.



So now out of curiosity I'm wondering if this 1" sway bar would even come close to fitting a B body. Unfortunately I don't know the clearance between control arms on the Delta series car.

nsnarsk65cutlass

I just want to put my 2 cents in here and have to say that krylon has been the faster drying paint and rustoleum much slower drying,as far as rattle can goes.

69442C

Allan,

That OEM bar looks very nice and your efforts to restore it paid off. Great job. That's an odd issue with the repro bar and I'm wondering if it was mislabeled and was intended for another vehicle.

Brian

Allan R

Thanks Brian. Hopefully it will be going onto the car Saturday; also have a new shim kit and bolts for it so the install should be fairly quick and easy.

I also was wondering the same thing about the bar as it is a 1" unit. When I got it several years back I think I only paid 79.00 (on sale) + shipping (which was more reasonable than it is now). That's why I was wondering out loud what the distance between control arms was on a 68-72 Delta? In a way, this is a great learning experience for sourcing out parts and checking them for fitment when they arrive. If I had followed through on a dry fit with this bar when it arrived, I would have contacted the seller and worked out an immediate resolution. (Allan's Generic Buying Tips 101)

Gotcha! I think we need to move away from the paint issue that was already debated to death in this thread for some strange reason and move forward with the rear end issues? Maybe someone should start a new thread debating the qualities of Krylon vs. Rustoleum etc so others can chime in there with their experiences and recommendations. I'm not being nasty about this, it's just that there's a better place to discuss this than in the middle of my thread. There are a number of hijacks in this thread that have ballooned it to more pages than it really needs to be if you know what I mean.