1970 Cutlass W-31 Frame Off Restoration

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Old Jan 27, 2020 | 02:09 PM
  #441  
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Solved the power steering bolt issue. For 1970, it's a 5/8" AF bolt. The bolt is AMK part # B-10184 and the lock washer is AMK part # B-13058.
Old Jan 27, 2020 | 02:27 PM
  #442  
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Originally Posted by dfire25
Frame looks great! Did you use normal body filler to smooth it out? I’m having mine blasted soon, another Midwest car, and I’m sure there’s going to be some pitting.
Yes, lots of priming, sanding, little bit of filler. Repeat.
Old Jan 27, 2020 | 02:28 PM
  #443  
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Originally Posted by rob1960
Frame 2.0 is looking really good!!!!
Originally Posted by 69 Hurst
Very nice! Gotta love that Eastwood Chassis Black.
Originally Posted by dfire25
Frame looks great! Did you use normal body filler to smooth it out? I’m having mine blasted soon, another Midwest car, and I’m sure there’s going to be some pitting.
Thanks, guys. Hope to have more updates this weekend.
Old Jan 27, 2020 | 05:49 PM
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Thanks!
Old Jan 30, 2020 | 08:44 PM
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Hit an unfortunate snag tonight. I went through six different lower ball joints and none of them fit tight in to the LCA to the point where they'd need to be pressed in. I tried Moog "Problem Solvers" and even they couldn't do the trick. Both sets from ILT were close. The vintage TRW lowers weren't close. An off brand from O'Reilly actually came the closest, but I could push them in with a rubber mallet so likely not what I'm looking for.

Does anyone have a rust free set of arms they'd be willing to part with? I'm really disappointed that these arms have issues since they cleaned up so well and I had a ton of time invested in them.

If there's an alternative solution to this outside of welding the ball joints in, I'm all ears.
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 05:59 AM
  #446  
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I've run into this many times over the years. Take a center punch or use the edge of a small sharp chisel and dimple the inside of the balljoint bore on the control arm. I never had an issue afterwards.
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 06:15 AM
  #447  
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Originally Posted by Dynoking
I've run into this many times over the years. Take a center punch or use the edge of a small sharp chisel and dimple the inside of the balljoint bore on the control arm. I never had an issue afterwards.
Elaborate on this, please.
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 06:36 AM
  #448  
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kinda like knurling the inside seat for valve guides I think?
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 06:47 AM
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This is very simple in practice but a little difficult to describe. Let me try to give you a visual.
  • The visual - Take a sharpened pencil and make as many dots as you can on the inside of the opening in the control arm where the balljoint would be pressed in to.
  • The practice - Substitute a sharp center punch for the pencil. Use a medium ball pein hammer to strike the center punch. This will create dimples of raised metal inside the hole where the balljoint is inserted. The more dimples, the more raised metal. The raised metal will hold the ball joint in place. It will not be as tight as the regular press fit, but again I have done this countless times over the years and never had a problem.
I suggest you use the dimpling, the tightest fitting balljoints you found, and the strongest thread locker (yellow?) I think you will be just fine.
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 06:49 AM
  #450  
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Yes, exactly.
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 06:53 AM
  #451  
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Originally Posted by scrappie
kinda like knurling the inside seat for valve guides I think?
Exactly
Old Jan 31, 2020 | 07:13 AM
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What about welding a small/ thin bead inside the control arms and grinding / sanding until you can press the ball joints in, then maybe a tack or two at the base of the Ball joint
would be invisible once done
Just a thought
Old Feb 1, 2020 | 07:56 AM
  #453  
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Found a pair of ball joints that fit in to the bore of the lower arm. They aren’t the NOS ball joints I had hoped to use, however, they’re remarkably close in style. Of all the sets I tried, they were the only ones that actually needed a press to get them in.

I started on the frame reassembly last night. It’s incredible how much easier it is the second time around hehe. Had a few neighbors come by and help turn the frame right side up. All the hardware that came off had been either replated or thoroughly cleaned and topped with a coat of Boeshield. I hopefully won’t have the flash rust encounter anytime soon because I put a thick coating on every nut and bolt.




Installed the original rubber bumpers. A touch of white grease on the end worked wonders in popping them back in to the frame.



Had a set of NOS brake line clips powdercoated in yellow for the brake line. These clips fit much better in the frame than the reproductions.

I had the original brake and fuel line clips at the rear of the frame rephosphated. In an earlier post I did a side by side with the reproductions, and while they were close in appearance there was still some nuance. I’m pleased with how these turned out.



Rebuilt date coded distribution block reinstalled. Please, someone tell me how my bracket is the wrong finish so I can show you photos of the original with that finish on it under the bolt



In order the expedite the process I placed the hardware in the spots it’ll go. Since my arms aren’t finished yet, I went ahead and put the cross shaft hardware in its place along with the control arm bolts and nuts. Makes reassembly a bit more efficient.



Engine block pads finished in correct phosphated finish. Correct hardware replated. I couldn’t imagine trying to tighten these with the suspension components in place.


Old Feb 2, 2020 | 08:48 PM
  #454  
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We have arms

Installed the NOS ball joints in the upper arms. Appreciate the help from my friends on finding what I refer to as the “high tower” ball joints just like the factory parts. I used the rivet bolts from ILT with the lock washers and nuts. What was nice about this install was that I could actually get a socket underneath to snug them down. On my previous TRW uppers I couldn’t get at the nuts.

The lower ball joints came back nicely installed. I swapped the grease zerks from the NOS ball joints to try and get them to at least look the part. The NOS pieces also had paint marking that I tried to replicate.

Mounted the tailpipes. I ordered the hangers from Gardner exhaust. The ILT set is correct for one side and not correct for the other side. Ultimately, I’ll blast my originals and have them phosphated since it doesn’t impact the rubber. I also used NOS bolts for the clamps to the pipes.

This week will be getting the spindles and steering pieces blasted and painted. Maybe this weekend I’ll mount the springs and shocks. Still a long way to go but this was a good weekend of progress.

Lastly, the hole for the battery cable tube bracket has enlarged. I tried what I believe is the correct bolt, but it just won’t get snug. Any thoughts? May try a larger bolt.


NOS upper arm bushings.




NOS upper ball joints.



Rivet bolt kit installed.





NOS lower control arm rubber bumpers.







This time around I went with a phosphated washer on the shaft along with a replated zinc nut.



Tailpipes hung with care.



Old Feb 2, 2020 | 08:57 PM
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Quick paint update

Loving the way the blue looks!








Procured a few additional cool parts last week. This is an NOS power steering hose with the correct yellow painted line. I’ll need to cut a little off this one to match the size of my factory hose.



Headlight escutcheon to replace the one that is pitted on my dash.


Last edited by WTHIRTY1; Feb 3, 2020 at 02:10 PM.
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 04:27 PM
  #456  
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That blue is spectacular! How are you finding all of those NOS parts?
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 04:48 PM
  #457  
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Paint update

Body and panels have been cleared and wet sanded. Now I just need to get moving on my end and get the chassis back to Michigan! So happy with how it looks!





Matching the dash color AND texture!



Original firewall stamps.



Lansing relics to reapply the factory stamps



Sending the car’s original OU fan clutch to a Corvette shop in Florida for a complete restoration. I’ll post pictures when it’s done in a few weeks.



Very fortunate to have the original fan and fan clutch for the car. I posted a year or two ago about how the original owners son stumbled on these parts buried in the backyard shed after I had acquired the car. Thanks, Andrew!


Old Feb 6, 2020 | 04:52 PM
  #458  
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Originally Posted by Tirekicker
That blue is spectacular! How are you finding all of those NOS parts?
Fortunate / lucky, I suppose. Lots of time combing through the parts catalogs and looking up part numbers. Great community with really good folks willing to help and contribute parts, too.
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 05:00 PM
  #459  
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Originally Posted by Tirekicker
How are you finding all of those NOS parts?
A lot of supposed "NOS" parts are just Chinese knock-offs. It's a huge million dollar market of making Chinese knock-offs and selling the parts as NOS. The Feds even raided some booths at a recent SEMA event as the parts were Chinese fakes.

If someone thinks a 50 year old rubber hose is still usable and safe to put on a vehicle, even if it was sitting on a shelf, is foolish. Just like tires deteriorate over time, so do all rubber components. Have fun when the hose breaks and you crash your newly restored vehicle into a light pole.

Last edited by pettrix; Feb 6, 2020 at 05:05 PM.
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 05:29 PM
  #460  
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Originally Posted by pettrix
A lot of supposed "NOS" parts are just Chinese knock-offs. It's a huge million dollar market of making Chinese knock-offs and selling the parts as NOS. The Feds even raided some booths at a recent SEMA event as the parts were Chinese fakes.

If someone thinks a 50 year old rubber hose is still usable and safe to put on a vehicle, even if it was sitting on a shelf, is foolish. Just like tires deteriorate over time, so do all rubber components. Have fun when the hose breaks and you crash your newly restored vehicle into a light pole.
Classy.
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 05:48 PM
  #461  
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Originally Posted by pettrix
A lot of supposed "NOS" parts are just Chinese knock-offs. It's a huge million dollar market of making Chinese knock-offs and selling the parts as NOS. The Feds even raided some booths at a recent SEMA event as the parts were Chinese fakes.

If someone thinks a 50 year old rubber hose is still usable and safe to put on a vehicle, even if it was sitting on a shelf, is foolish. Just like tires deteriorate over time, so do all rubber components. Have fun when the hose breaks and you crash your newly restored vehicle into a light pole.
Chinese fakes? You do realize the packaging is date coded, right? China must have really been cranking on GM parts in 1970...

And great points on old hoses. Can I presume that “deteriorated rubber” is what led to you being conceived?

You shouldn’t wish harm on others. Shame on you.
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 06:32 PM
  #462  
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It's about installing 50-year old parts on a vehicle that will be rolling down the street putting yourself and others in danger of injury or death.

You admitted you are installing 50-year old rusted and pitted fuel line clips on your fuel lines. How is that safe and logical? You refuse to install new clips/clamps because they don't look like they did 50 years ago. Who cares? Do you want your vehicle to catch on fire when that 50-year old clip fails and fuel begins dumping all over your engine and hot exhaust?

You are risking other peoples lives and putting other people in harms way in the name of being a "purist". Shame on you!
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 06:51 PM
  #463  
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Installing a 50-year old rubber power steering hose simply because it's NOS and has a yellow stripe going down the hose.

The lines can see 800 psi of pressure. The rubber hose was never designed to last 50 years. Just like a set of rubber tires isn't designed to last 50 years. So when that line sees that pressure and breaks, power steering fluid goes shooting everywhere on the front tires, oiling down the roadway. While you are doing 50mph. What do you think will happen?

You are endangering the lives of others on the roadway in the name of chasing some stupid purist goal. Shame on you!

Plus, thank you for posting that on the internet. So if and when something like this happens while you are driving the vehicle, or the person you sell the vehicle to. A lawyer will subpoena the posts you made and clearly show the courts and jury that you installed old, used, parts on a vehicle. Making the vehicle unsafe and hazardous to be driven on roadways. Even when you were advised by other mechanics to NOT install used & pitted 50-year fuel line clips and 50-year old rubber power steering hoses. Instead of installing new parts, you chose to install 50+ year old parts that caused the injury or deaths. The jury will award the plaintiff millions of dollars and you will get sued into oblivion for being stupid and reckless.

Plus, dont bother going back and erasing your incriminating posts. I already screen shotted them and saved them.

Last edited by pettrix; Feb 6, 2020 at 06:57 PM.
Old Feb 6, 2020 | 09:39 PM
  #464  
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Wow!!! The concours restoration thread went off the rails in a hurry. Really enjoyed every minute, and picture of this over the top journey. Unfortunately it’s not for everyone, and that’s absolutely ok. Thank goodness there are still people around that want to do this. It’s definitely not about making any moneY, cause there isn’t any to make.🙄 It just becomes something that just grows, and is very hard to stop. For us that want to do, but are not nearly patient enough to study, research, and seek out the correct pieces to purchase, or refurbish to OE standards it’s been a real pleasure to watch this. Look very forward to seeing the finished build. Keep it going my friend. Love it. I 100% get it!!!
Old Feb 7, 2020 | 05:42 AM
  #465  
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Here's a question. How bad was the hose that was on it leaking, if at all? And how old was it? Why didn't it just spew because it was already old? If you hadn't have even touched the fuel line clips, they'd still be holding up fuel lines today. So when the currently sold Chinesium parts mechanics put on cars have no chance of blowing out and spewing fluid all over the car? While pettrix makes a few good points, I can assure you even if that NOS hose blows out, it poses no more of a vehicle threat than a new hose that was constructed by those who gave us the Coronavirus would be if it blew out. Fluid will end up in the same place. The cool part is that most of those hoses can hold way more than maximum system pressures, so even if it's weaker than it was when new, I'd trust an old GM hose made in the USA before trusting the new Chinesium version. If it's gonna fail, it's gonna fail. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Here's a point, though- Not all GM parts or their packaging are date coded. And 99% of all GM parts were made by vendors that contracted to GM. And back then, some vendors were from Japan, Taiwan, England, and other places in the world, not just the USA. And it may or may not be stamped on the package. It's not always very easy to decipher when/where a box was printed or the part actually made.

GM also would "recycle" parts. It's true, at the very least for some "NOS" 442 emblems. Sure, they came in a new GM box, and the GM parts department guy handed you the parts over the counter, but in the later years right before they were discontinued, you look on the back and you can see where some of the emblems were refurbished because of remnants of filled in thread marks and a higher gloss of black inlay on the emblems. So while you paid for new, there was a chance you were getting restored parts from GM. I've personally bought them from the dealer like that. Some repairs are better than others, but you could tell. Also, it was hit or miss whether you got the tube nuts or speed nuts in the box. If I had a notion of digging them out of storage I'd post pictures.

Chinesium repro parts are usually different and noticeably so. Not always, but most of the time you can tell there's at least one aspect of the part that doesn't feel, look, or fit quite just right. Not pretending there's no knockoffs out there, but if anyone is very familiar with NOS parts for their year and model, when you start seeing a glut of "NOS" parts start showing up when years before it was slim pickings, maybe that should set a red flag. Even China knows that you need economy of scale to make parts profitable.

Restoration is all about choices. I still fail to see how restoring an original metal part is somehow going to instantly fail. If you only used one fuel line clip, I could see erring on the side of caution, but there are many clips that would need to fail at the same time. Nah, not buying that. There's two mentalities here. One that automatically replaces everything and one who evaluates the condition of the original parts and decides whether to replace or restore the part.

Sorry I digress. I don't think crapping in other people's threads in that manner is at all helpful. There's a way to make your suggestions or observations known without coming across as confrontational.

But back to the topic. That paint came out beautiful! I could only wish to have paint that looked that nice. That should be a huge motivation boost now to get it done!

Ok, off my soap box. Build that W31!
Old Feb 7, 2020 | 09:10 AM
  #466  
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Originally Posted by Bfg
I would be a little skeptical of putting 50 year old brake hoses on a vehicle. They might look new but they tend to deteriorate from the inside out. Hoses are readily available at any auto parts store.
Old Feb 7, 2020 | 11:19 AM
  #467  
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W31

It's Your car Make it the way You want!

Looks Great , Wish I would have documented mine this way , I was resto- mod 25 years ago, but appreciate the parts hunt and correct finishes and assembly on a concourse restoration!

Last edited by green1972; Feb 7, 2020 at 11:24 AM.
Old Feb 7, 2020 | 11:51 AM
  #468  
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Well Said

Originally Posted by 69HO43
Sorry I digress. I don't think crapping in other people's threads in that manner is at all helpful. There's a way to make your suggestions or observations known without coming across as confrontational.
Very well said, I can see both sides, but as said there is a way to do things too. Often words that are typed are not meant in the way they are read.
Old Feb 7, 2020 | 11:52 AM
  #469  
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Amazing Restoration.

I finally got caught up on this and it is truly amazing, The frame came out amazing as did all of your work! , paint looks flawless! keep up the great work!
Old Feb 7, 2020 | 11:37 PM
  #470  
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I have thoroughly enjoyed following your restoration please keep up the posts. There's always someone who wants to **** on a parade. In terms of catastrophic failures I don't believe that blowing a power steering line is any where near the top of the list. Sure, things can go wrong but I'd have to believe that with this level of detail if the hose had any indication of wear/age that it wouldn't be installed.
Old Feb 8, 2020 | 06:39 AM
  #471  
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Back to our regularly scheduled broadcasting...

Apologies to the group for the noise created in this thread the past few days. As always, I appreciate the positive comments throughout the thread.

The firewall and dash are done. Stamps are back in place. Again, I couldn’t be more pleased!



New drain plugs in place with a match to the factory colored sealer.



I had the second dealer plate frame reworked. This one wasn’t pitted nearly as bad as the first but was still pretty rough. I wanted to stagger the frames in case the process didn’t work out. I’ll keep this one as garage art. In reading the fine details of the PIM, my understanding is that the front plate holder wasn’t actually installed until the car reached the dealer.

BEFORE:



AFTER:



The exhaust hangers for the tailpipes have been an area of contention throughout this process. The ILT hangers are nice except the LH side is an exact copy of the RH side with the tabs facing opposite ways. The Garner hangers are nice BUT the LH and RH side, per their direction, have the tabs that point towards the back of the car. I tried swapping them
but the brackets that go over the frame didn’t line up with the holes. I could drill the frame but that’ll be an absolute last resort.

I blasted my original hangers. They were pitted and took a beating but I think they’ll be okay. Next step is to rephosphate them, clean the rubber, and stick them back on. The heavily pitted area will face up to the body and won’t be visible.





Hope to get the springs and spindles installed this morning.
Old Feb 8, 2020 | 07:28 AM
  #472  
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Originally Posted by WTHIRTY1
The firewall and dash are done.
And done beautifully, as usual.

There are two details in the picture above that differ from my 1970 Lansing-built Vista Cruiser.

First, the body color extended almost to the longitudinal seam sealer on the sides of the cowl. A mask was used to limit the extent of the body color. The body color was not visible when the fenders were in place, except when the door was open.

Second, the portion of the A pillar that will be visible through the windshield was painted interior color.

I understand your body may have had a different treatment, but thought I would mention these points.

Last edited by VC455; Feb 8, 2020 at 07:33 AM. Reason: added note about door
Old Feb 9, 2020 | 04:11 AM
  #473  
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Your dash & cowl look great! Love the A D Pelunis plate frames.That was an awesome dealership! Huge parts dept!! I had them on my first 68 as you can see from the pic from 1980! I still have the old "442" plates hanging in my garage but I'll be damned if I could find the ADP frames, I'd put them on my current '68 in a heartbeat!! You're taking a big chance on using those 50 yr old tailpipe hangers!!!!LOL

Old Feb 9, 2020 | 04:17 AM
  #474  
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Nice picture. I would love to have an A D Pelunis plate frame for my 66. Still looking.
Wayne

Old Feb 9, 2020 | 05:52 AM
  #475  
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Fantastic work! I have not been following along as much as I wanted to but I will now. As for NOS hoses, I was still running all the original rubber on my 1962. I am restoring the car and going to use NOS hoses on it from the early 60's. The hoses I am using are as nice as new from the store.
Old Feb 9, 2020 | 05:55 AM
  #476  
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Originally Posted by pettrix
Installing a 50-year old rubber power steering hose simply because it's NOS and has a yellow stripe going down the hose.

The lines can see 800 psi of pressure. The rubber hose was never designed to last 50 years. Just like a set of rubber tires isn't designed to last 50 years. So when that line sees that pressure and breaks, power steering fluid goes shooting everywhere on the front tires, oiling down the roadway. While you are doing 50mph. What do you think will happen?

You are endangering the lives of others on the roadway in the name of chasing some stupid purist goal. Shame on you!

Plus, thank you for posting that on the internet. So if and when something like this happens while you are driving the vehicle, or the person you sell the vehicle to. A lawyer will subpoena the posts you made and clearly show the courts and jury that you installed old, used, parts on a vehicle. Making the vehicle unsafe and hazardous to be driven on roadways. Even when you were advised by other mechanics to NOT install used & pitted 50-year fuel line clips and 50-year old rubber power steering hoses. Instead of installing new parts, you chose to install 50+ year old parts that caused the injury or deaths. The jury will award the plaintiff millions of dollars and you will get sued into oblivion for being stupid and reckless.

Plus, dont bother going back and erasing your incriminating posts. I already screen shotted them and saved them.
Go away or quit being an idiot. Can someone delete this guys posts.
Old Feb 9, 2020 | 06:07 AM
  #477  
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Nice work as always Jimmy. Keep it up your going surpass my detail in no time!

It also sad when jealousy brings out the worst in some people.
Old Feb 9, 2020 | 09:49 AM
  #478  
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Hi Jim
Back from holidays Keep up with the restoration great work positive you are not installing unsafe parts.To bad the tread went crooked a bit.
Have a great day
Alain
Old Mar 1, 2020 | 07:06 AM
  #479  
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Fan clutch restoration

Fairly quick turnaround of three weeks for the fan clutch restoration. I couldn’t find a date inked on to the outer surface so I had the shop do January 29. I picked that date since it’s my father’s birth date, and he has been helping me along this journey. In all likelihood, there was only the letters OU stamped on the outer surface.









The julian date of 056 70 stamped on the back side confirms this is the original clutch to the car.
Old Mar 2, 2020 | 01:32 PM
  #480  
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A few updates as I’ve made a decent amount of progress the last few weeks on the 31. The core support went back on the chassis over the weekend, and I think it looks great. I still have a laundry list of items to finish before the chassis goes up to Michigan to be reunited with the freshly painted body. I would like to get it all done but most importantly I want to get the e-brake cables finished along with installation of the kickdown cable.

If anyone has any detail around the size of the rubber piece that connects the modulator line to the trans modulator for a 350, I’d greatly appreciate seeing that. I have a suspicion that my modulator line is wayyyy off, but I can’t quite say 100% it’s wrong until I see the rubber.

In a previous post, I had detailed the cleaning of the original radiator rubbers for the core support. Here’s a photo of the clips that I used to mount them.




Thanks to my friend Randy for hooking me up with NOS rotors for the car. I packed the bearings last night for the LH side of the car and will finish the RH side tonight. I went with the Timken Set 2 and Set 6 wheel bearings and the install was a breeze.



The plan is to debut this car in Nashville for the National this summer. With that show, and MCACN in the fall, I’m going to scale back on the detailed photos moving forward. I'm happy to provide anyone insight or guidance along the way.

Last edited by WTHIRTY1; Mar 2, 2020 at 01:40 PM.



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