Hello All,

I just bought a 1970 Cutlass Convertible with a 455 and Hurst Dual Gate, pretty sure most of it is not original, the fender tag is missing.

I'm in the process of sorting through the car and checked the dwell and timing today. Dwell was around 16 and the timing was right at the top of the timing marker.

I figured that I should just go ahead and replace the points and condenser, and set the dwell first then set the timing but ran into a couple of issues. First, my Chilton's manual says the distributor on the 455 is in the front of the block, so I'm a little confused by that. And in the instructions for replacing the points and condenser it doesn't mention how to remove the advance weights and I can't imagine how a person could get a feeler gauge to the points with the weights in the way. What's really weird is that I can't seem to find the condenser. There's something that looks just like it on the replacement points, is that it or is it separate? There's a condenser on the coil that looks exactly like the replacement I have, that isn't it is it?

Does any of you guys know what the degree increments are on the timing marker? I can see the zero but the other marks are not numbered.
What's worse is now that I put it all back together, it's missing pretty noticeably. Guess I need to go make sure all the plug wires are attached properly. The car runs hotter the longer I drive it, even on a long straight drives at leisurely speeds. I'm thinking the timing may be causing that, thoughts on that?

Thanks for any help!

 

 

Throw the Chilton away and go to ebay and buy yourself an authentic factory service manual. It sounds like Chilton does not know the difference in an Olds 455 and a Buick 455 which has the distributor on the front.

Eric, GM (Delco) made unisets back in the day because I sold lots of them back in the mid 60's. I have no idea if they still make them (doubtful since they haven't used points since 1974). I always like them since they were easier to install.

By the way mownhoj, welcome to the site. You need to post some pictures of your car or everybody here will pester the heck out of you.

 

I agree on the Chiltons, they are a good door stop or a step for shorter people.

The first time I saw a Uniset was in the 90's had no idea when they first came out. They are still available at parts stores.

He did post a couple of pics in the Newbie section, a nice blue vert.

 

Thanks Erick. Sorry I missed the first post with the pictures. Should we refer him to the thread we had a short while back about the distributor adjusting tool. Nah.

 

I edited one in.

 

Time to get a Chassis Service Manual.

Welcome to ClassicOlds.

- Eric

 

Thanks for all the help fellas. I used to be on a Jeep blog like this a long time ago, so I knew I'd get the help I needed. I had never heard of all in one points but I think that is what is on there.




So I looked at it again tonight, dwell was worse than it was before I started fooling with it. I couldn't get the allen wrench lined up with the adjusting screw so I decided to just go about it the old way and open the cap, make a turn, put it back, read the dwell again, etc.
The distributor cap wasn't on right when I first went to do that, so after seating it properly I was able to adjust the dwell through the window. The dwell jumped all around while I was adjusting it which I figured was for the same reason that I kept getting shocked when holding the window open. I did get the dwell up to 29 and called it a day.
The dwell adjustment moved the timing from 8 degrees BTDC to 4. I tried to set the timing but the distributor will not budge. Any ideas on that?
It still is running poorly. It's not sputtering as badly as it was last night (when the distributor cap wasn't on right), but it still sputters a lot. It feels like something is grounding out, (but then again, for all I know it could be a carb issue. I know nothing about tuning a carb, it has an Edelbrock that I don't know how to ID). But as for as ignition goes, the cap, rotor, coil, plugs and plug wires are all new. I do know that the worse the dwell issue was, the more it sputtered in exactly the same way, so if nyone has any ideas on what I should try next, I'm all ears.
Oh and I totally agree about the Chilton's:

 

That is a uniset for sure. Did yo disconnect the vacuum advance when you were setting the dwell?

 

The vacuum advance does not effect dwell, but it needs to be disconnected when you adjust timing. Loosen the bolt at the base of the distributor and then soak the are with penetrating fluid. Then man handle and force the distributor to turn one way or the other. Keep at it until it loosens up. Then set your timing.

 

Thanks again for the replies gents. I did not disconnect the vacuum when setting the dwell as I was under the impression that doing so is only necessary when setting the timing. I didn't take it off when looking at the timing at idle either since I figured it would have a minimal effect at idle. I was planning to do so but couldn't get the distributor to budge as I mentioned.
Thanks for the tip on getting it loosened Eric, I'll try that. I was a little hesitant to go medieval on it until I asked around about what people usually do in that situation. I think once I get it loose I may just replace it. The way it was sputtering this morning makes me think something just isn't right in the ignition system, like perhaps a wire has lost its insulation or the lobes are just worn out. What do you guys think?

 

Easy enough to check and replace a wire.

Seems like overkill to replace an entire distributor for the same reason.

Why not remove the distributor (being careful to note its alignment first), disassemble it, check its individual parts, clean and lubricate, put it back together, and see how it works?

- Eric

 

I agree, why spend money before troubleshooting.

 

" The dwell jumped all around while I was adjusting it"


Varying dwell has a limited number of causes. While you have the dist'r our for a clean and re-lube, ck for excess play in the top bushing/ shaft. If you can move the shaft sideways by hand enough to visibly affect the point gap, that needs to be corrected. The wire that leads to the pts flexes in use and will eventually fatigue and die, usually intermittent death. Might as well put in a new one.


The Dist'r bushings are available from corvette places, just cut the long one to suit, drive in place, ream with 12.5mm reamer. Polish your shaft to your stringent specifications, refresh the "grease" in the upper cavity for the bushing.


Except for the reamer, you probably have most of the necessary items.


MARK the gear w.r.t. the shaft so that you don't get it half a turn off for assembly- is should not matter, but it DOES because a hole thru a shaft is never EXACTLY at the center.

 

The dwell is going to bounce around with the adjusting tool in place, what does it do with the tool removed?

 

Well, I hate to admit it, but I have ongoing back problems and I'm tall, so the fewer times I have to get at that distributor the better. The engine has (at least) 98,000 miles on it, I figured that the lobes are probably worn to the point that it is likely affecting the performance of the distributor, so why not just upgrade and replace? I don't mind spending some money on it, on the back pain versus wallet pain, back pain wins out hands down. If I went with an electronic, wouldn't that require less maintenance?

Do you guys think it was indicative of any issue with the distributor that I was getting shocked while touching the window?

 

I will probably catch a lot of grief for this and that is okay but I would put a Pertronix conversion in there and be done with it. You don't have to screw with setting dwell then.

 

I doubt it.

RedOlds is right, though: If it's a real pain for you to get at the distributor, an electronic trigger is the way to go.

- Eric

 

I don't think so but not 100% sure. You're in the area where the coil is discharging 10,000-15,000 Volts into the spark plug wires. Ever tried to stop a lawn mower engine by pulling the plug wire off the spark plug?

 

The shocks are probably from leakage in the wires as stated above. Have the cap, rotor, plugs, and wires been changed recently?

 

thanks again guys for the help, I really appreciate it.

Eric, yes I replaced everything so far except the uniset. Cap, rotor, coil, wires and plugs are all new. I guess I should go ahead and replace the uniset today and give that a try. The Petronix will take a few days to arrive anyway.

If I do replace the uniset and set the dwell as we've discussed, using the window, does that set the gap as well? Or is that different?

Redoldsman, love the avatar, it that a B-24? Thanks for your service in Vietnam, too. I'm from not too far from you, Shreveport LA. My dad was the senior medical flight examiner at Barksdale AFB. I loved going tot he airshow there every year, never missed it.

 

Another odd thing I noticed was that on the old coil there was condensor that had no wire on it:







Now that I know I have a uniset, I have a condenser that I don't need. Would that condenser be the same as what was on the coil? If so, would I connect it to the negative? I read somewhere it helps keep the noise down in the radio.

 

Don't worry about that condenser on the coil right now/ It was put there to suppress ignition noise in the radio. It served no purpose in the ignition system.

 

Yes. Two different ways of measuring and adjusting the same thing.

- Eric

 

If the uniset is working I would not worry about changing until it needs to be replaced. It will work fine for a long time.

 

Redoldsman, love the avatar, it that a B-24? Thanks for your service in Vietnam, too. I'm from not too far from you, Shreveport LA. My dad was the senior medical flight examiner at Barksdale AFB. I loved going tot he airshow there every year, never missed it.

Sorry I missed this earlier. Us old vets still appreciate the thanks for our service. That is a B-24 in my avatar. It is Diamond Lil and belongs to the CAF. I am from West Monroe originally but have lived in Dallas since 1979. I always wanted to be stationed at Barksdale but it never worked out.

 

Well fellas, I spent a good 4 or 5 hours under the hood today and after much trial and error I finally got the job done AND the car running. As I learned it is one thing to replace the uniset, and another task entirely to actually get the car to start after doing so. I had to monkey with the placement of that uniset ten times before they were opening and closing enough to get the car started. A couple of things I figured out that may be helpful to someone else down the road:

I would not use a uniset again for the simple reason that you can't get a feeler gauge in there because of where the condenser is. This is important because you need to know if you've placed the points in such a way that they are opening and closing. Several times I had them placed so that they were only open or only closed.

The Actron dwell meter I bought on Amazon had a cool tip in the instructions; if you set it to measure voltage, it will tell you if the points are open or closed. This was very helpful in getting the placement of the points right.

I am going to buy a "hot start fix" from OPG so I can hook up my remote stater in 3 seconds as opposed to 45 minutes. D@mn the engineer who thought it was a good idea to put the solenoid on the starter. And while I'm at it, same to the guy that thought the distributor in the back was a good idea! Man my big block Mopar was much easier to work on! Of course, I never had to fool with the ignition because it was electronic. Same year model. Just sayin. Starter was easier to get to also! I thought GMs were the easy ones to work on! I digress.

A clothespin came in very handy. The little distributor window would be awesome if you could get a screwdriver or allen wrench up to it. It would be really awesome if it didn't close so easily and weren't made of a material that conducts electricity, ouch! I turned a clothespin around backwards and crammed it in there, voila! window held open by a non-electricity conducting item.

Once I got it running it was easy to dial in, and it is running much, much better. It is still missing just a hair but you really have to listen for it. It is much smoother than before though, definitely needed new points.

There is now a "blu-blub" hesitation when I stomp the accelerator so I suppose I need to look at the carb now.

I tried like hell to loosen that distributor but it won't budge. I went the whole nine yards, sledge, crowbar, penetrant, etc, nothing. Luckily once I got the dwell dialed in, it's at 9 degrees BTDC so it's close enough I guess. That thing is in there till the motor is out of the car.

All said and done I would just go with a conversion kit if I had it to do over. It would have cost more, but I could have gotten a lot more done today if I had done so. I was hoping to get the new shocks on today but this took most of the day. On the flip side, it is running much better, and it is damn rewarding to persist on something that was bedeviling me and come out on top. Lots of thanks to you guys on that, the advice I got here was invaluable.

Now on to my overheating and hesitation matters! Gotta say though, this is why I bought the thing, i love having something to fix, something to care for, something to tweak and tune, something that rewards me with a roar when I get it done. I know you guys all get that, we share a common illness cured only by the sound of 8 happy, roaring cylinders, right?

John

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by redoldsman

Redoldsman, love the avatar, it that a B-24? Thanks for your service in Vietnam, too. I'm from not too far from you, Shreveport LA. My dad was the senior medical flight examiner at Barksdale AFB. I loved going tot he airshow there every year, never missed it.

Sorry I missed this earlier. Us old vets still appreciate the thanks for our service. That is a B-24 in my avatar. It is Diamond Lil and belongs to the CAF. I am from West Monroe originally but have lived in Dallas since 1979. I always wanted to be stationed at Barksdale but it never worked out.

Hey man, I love my country and I love to love my country, and I love to thank a vet for it. Especially you Nam vets, you guys didn't get the thanks you deserved at the time, but I can tell you I don't know a single person born in my time that doesn't appreciate the lack of thanks you guys got back then. I hope it all feels worth it now.

John

 

You need to get the distributor to move and get your timing set up corrected.

 

Eric isn't 9 degrees BTDC close enough? Pardon my ignorance if that's a dumb question but damn I busted my *** yesterday trying to loosen that thing but it won't budge. This winter I plan to pull the motor so I thought I'd just go with it as is until then.

-John

 

Your engine might like a couple more degrees of advance, which is why I suggested it. However if your going to be getting after the engine this winter don't worry about it.

 

Its oft blasphemy, but my old 74/350 was such a pain with points that I yanked it off one day, stuck on HEI, used the 1975 advance specs and changed the plugs to a longer reach to handle the .080 gap. Never has a problem since then.

Just for grins tho, and I know what its like being tall, but when there is chuffing and chuggin sounds going on, I like to have a fresh compression test in hand...(about to do one myself later today)