Col Wickham

Folks I've tried to get an answer to this by reference to other Engine Number related threads and the internet but I'm still confused...
How do I tell if my 1967 Cutlass Supreme 330 High Compression car is a numbers matching vehicle?
Is there reference to an engine number stamped on an ID plate somewhere?..(remember I haven't seen the car yet, it's still in the States). I'm just wondering why the guy I bought it from "thought" it had the original drive train in it. Is it a difficult issue with a '67 model? (I believe the '68 had part of the cars VIN in the engine # which makes it a no-brainer), but I've got no idea about 67s.
Appreciate your advice as always Gentlemen......and Ladies.
And having said that, Are there many "Olds girls" registered as users on this site?

wmachine

Pre-'68 is a lot tougher to verify engine origin.
The engine unit number is stamped on a machined pad on the front of the passenger side head. (If you don't find a number there, it is possible the heads were swapped if/when they were removed and the number will be on the back of the the drivers side).
This engine unit does not relate to the VIN or to the body number on the firewall data plate. Other than on the engine, the only places you will find the engine number is on the Protec-O-Plate and *possibly* the build sheet. Even the build sheets I've seen that have a box for the "eng. or motor unit number", the box is blank.
The POP has both the engine unit number and the VIN, so the the POP is most valuable in confirming that the engine is original.
Note: As I said, the number is on only one head, so even if the number matches, everything but the head conceivably could have been replaced. Not likely, but that is the reality of where the number is stamped.
The trans and rear do not have any such numbers that could ever be checked to confirm originality. So how would the seller know?

Col Wickham

[quote=wmachine;109046]
Other than on the engine, the only places you will find the engine number is on the Protec-O-Plate and *possibly* the build sheet. Even the build sheets I've seen that have a box for the "eng. or motor unit number", the box is blank.
The POP has both the engine unit number and the VIN, so the the POP is most valuable in confirming that the engine is original.

I know there's a Cowl plate on the firewall and a VIN Plate on the door pillar but I do not know what a "protect-o-plate" is or where it is located. It's not a term I've heard used down here. Please explain.
Found a good website for info on 67s....but no explanation of what a "POP" is. Got just about everything else though.
Cheers: http://www.oldsmobility.com/

wmachine

The POP is the metal tag inside the back cover of the "Owners Protection Plan" booklet (aka "warranty booklet"). First 2 pics are a '66 version, the next a '67. This format was used thru '68 with most of the last 2 years having plastic lettering in lieu of the all metal variety. These plates have all kinds of goodies about the car. In '69, they went to a plastic card, shown top of last pic, and these types don't have nearly the info that the pre-69s have.
They were originally put in the "slot" on the left side of the the glove box. They were used by the dealers to make an impression (stamp if you will) on warranty paperwork when the owner took it in for service.

Col Wickham

Thanks so much for that information. The car is coming with service manuals. I hope there's a POP there as well. Appreciate the time / effort you've spent responding to my dumb questions.
Cheers...Col

gearheads78

Unless its a 442 matching numbers don't mean caca to 95% of those out there. In fact a 455 swap done right will make it worth more.

wmachine

I don't think that is a fair or accurate statement. You'll have to prove to me that a Cutlass with a 455 is worth more than a documented Cutlass, and we're talking about a '67 here.
And monetary value aside even, it worth a whole lot more to have it documented to more than 5% I'd say. There is more to it than just the money.

gearheads78

The percentage may be a stretch but I stand behind my statement from personal experience buying selling and being around muscle cars my whole life.

I am not talking about hack job installs but a well thought out planned and executed installs.

67 Chevelle nice original car with 454/TH400 swap or the same car with the original 283

65 Lemans with a 455 or 326

67 Cutlass with 455 or 330 ect ect

Now if we are talikin about real SS, GTO, 442 ect the whole world changes. Even matching number air in the tires makes a difference

therobski

It all boils down to what you want out of your labor and $$$$. On that note I agree with Richard in terms of my 67 build. Now-first I'm fully aware I will never get the investment $$$$$ out of my car when I sell it someday (when I'm gumming a popsicle in my wheel chair). Theres a price to pay for enjoyment and sentimental value just about like any other hobby. But this is a driver I believe that will not depreciate over time because I plan I putting several thousand mile a year on her. I wanted " my " 67 442 and had these cars when I was kid but the stock original 442's are to slow and do not stop or handle the way I want to drive. However I didn't want to chop an original 442 either. So I took this 67 330 CS Holiday/ automatic and made my own 461-500hp, M21, mandrell 3inch exhaust, front disc brakes etc. 442. This car even has the CORRECT 67 442 headlight bezels! As with OLDS we all knew going in the value of these cars is not likely to go up percentage wise annually like certain performance Chevy, Mopar coded cars and maybe never. But I don't want a trailer queen/ investment grade car or spend 30-50K for numbers matching performace driver-67 396 Chevelle code 138 thats about as fast is a 67 442. This way I can have my cake and eat it to.
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therobski

BUMP any more comments?

2blu442

therobski I like your idea of taking a Cutlass and building your fun car. I hate to see people take the more rare and collectable 442's and even W cars to customize or modify for the drag strip in a way that can't easily be turned back. As long as a person isn't trying to sell a clone for a real 442 I have no problem with putting on the emblems and making it look nice. John

therobski

I even built a stock 67 400E motor for this car and that's when I noticed I had the urge for more power. In fact I am thinking of building up the 400E for my 64 post project-a 64 F-85 with tri-power? WAY COOL