knighthawk

my neighbor asked me, why do they call it a "rocket ''? So, why a Rocket ? and why not ALL GM 350's a rocket ?..............thanks

alek72us

Becasue oldsmobile are the only rocket. lol

there might be a better answer.

Lady72nRob71

It had something to do with their new cutting edge engine design they released in the 40s or 50s that really boosted HP. I think most all traditional V8s then after had that design so they were all called rockets..
I do need to brush up on my Olds history, I know......

jensenracing77

Marketing... i would think that the rocket engine in test planes and all would have ben a popular phrase at the time they used the name for there engine line.

what was the first year the rocket name was used?

Bluevista

In 1949 Olds wanted to name the new Oldsmobile engine the Kettering Engine after it's designer but GM had a policy againt naming anything after a living person.
Oldsmobile general manager Sherrod E. Skinner then named the engine the Rocket because of the heightened interest in rockets at the time and the division's weapon and shell manufacturing during WWII.

That's from one of the engineers that worked on developing the engine, all of them thought the name stunk at first.

http://www.autohistory.org/feature_8.html

joe_padavano

Because it was the dawn of the space age and the world had recently seen the German V2 rockets from WWII. Note how every cartoon rocket from that time period looks like a V2. When Olds came out with the new OHV V8 in 1949, they needed a marketing brand that consumers would associate with new and high tech. The consumer was supposed to feel that the new engine would let the car accelerate like a rocket.

MDchanic

Far as I know, the "Rocket" name was first used in 1949 for the new OHV V-8. It seemed like good marketing, so the name stuck.

In 1949, most companies were still selling flatheads (I'm not sure of the dates for each one, but I think Caddy came out with OHV in '49 as well, Ford in '54, and Chevy replaced the stovebolt 6 with the smallblock in about '55 or '56), so the OHV design was fairly revolutionary.

Of course the "Rocket" concept was the newest of the new back then, something pointing to a great and wonderful future - in a way that it's hard for us, wrapped up in some "new" i-gadget every few months, to understand. The average middle-aged person in 1949 had been a child at a time when horse-drawn equipment was still commonly seen on the street, had seen cars go from the Model T to the postwar Cadillacs, Lincolns, and Packards with power windows and air conditioning, and had seen airplanes go from canvas curiosities at local air shows to the P-41 and the B-29, and were about to see the debut of the (wait for it...) F-85. Real rockets (as opposed to glorified fireworks) had first been seen over London near the end of the War, and the V2s and V3s were feared and admired. After our "hostile takeover" of the German rocket programs, Werner von Braun and his colleagues went to work creating newer and better rockets for "the good guys," (where he remained in charge of NASA until, I think, 1974) and the immediate postwar years saw frequent news of newer and greater rockets that were expected to one day carry us to the moon and the stars.

So the "Rocket" concept was a powerful one for marketing - so good that it endured for nearly 25 years.





- Eric

edit: darn, you guys beat me to it...

D Appeldorn

nice story,

something learned to day

Oldsmaniac

And all GM 350's are not Rockets because they had a different design than the Olds engine. Few to none of the other engines parts interchanged to the Olds Rocket. The Rocket term was for Olds only and was applied to all of their V8's from 49 up.

jensenracing77

it was more than just the V8... the Quad 442 4 cylinder was called a rocket. i thought that if it was an oldsmobile engine it was a rocket after they introduced the name?

joe_padavano

Please say it ain't so...

jensenracing77

i just thought if they went out of there way to put the logo on it....

i think i have an Oldsmobile publication that said it was a rocket. i will post it as soon as i find it.

100_4790.jpg?t=1299012473

jensenracing77

didn't take to long to find it but it is not an Oldsmobile publication. i was wrong on that. it is volume 2 of the Oldsmobile in action book. so am i wrong? you would know more than i would.

03-01-2011035237PM.jpg?t=1299013038

MDchanic

Yes, but, thankfully, the word, "ROCKET" is nowhere on the engine itself, as it is on all the Olds V-8s up until, what? 1974? So, we can all go off whistling a tune, secure in the knowledge that the word was only being used figuratively in that headline .

- Eric

starfire

You guys obviously never drove a HO Quad 4 in the Calais body. It did not shame the "Rocket" legacy. One of the biggest regrets I have is having had to sell my '90 Quad 442.

jensenracing77

the pic i posted is from the one i sold 2 years ago. if you think the HO quad 4 version was impressive you should try a W-41. i never raced it against my Rallye 350 but it would have ben a very close race. i beat every 5.0 mustangs with it that wanted to try it.

Aceshigh

Look at how tiny those old transmissions were back then......crazy.

The new 6L90e's are almost 200lbs

knighthawk

amazing what you can learn by asking a simple question ! I'm assuming also the ' F-85' was a new rocket ?......OOK, so next question,, why didn't they all come out with the OVH engine at the same time ? It's like 5 years before they put it out . I remember my Dad's Ferguson tractor, was OHV motor in '51 or '52

NorTown Olds

Ya got me there Friend, but interesting thread for sure. (Like "Oldsmobile JEPOARDY!" "Alex I'll take 'Famous Cutlasses for 500 Please..."

MDchanic

Well, not exactly. The F-85 Goblin was an experimental jet fighter first flown in 1948, designed to be carried in the bomb bay of a B-36, to be dropped out to provide fighter cover at distances beyond the range of normal fighters, and then to be hooked back into the plane for the return trip.
The development of mid-air refueling made them a dead issue.





The F-86 Saber was the first American Jet fighter, created using captured German design information immediately after World War II, and placed into service in 1948 or '49. It was the mainstay US fighter during the Early '50's, through the Korean War, and was supplanted in the late '50's by the F-100 series (which included the F-4 Phantom). It was seen at the time as the epitome of American technology and power, could reach supersonic speeds, and was generally just "really cool." Its "open mouth" air intake was used as a jumping off point for many 1950's automotive designs, after the immediate post-war "propeller hub" designs had grown stale.



I'm sure someone else here can tell us for certain whether the marketing gurus were thinking of the F-85 Goblin or the F-86 Saber (minus one number, to conceal its identity) when they chose the F-85 name.

Here endeth the lesson.

- Eric

starfire

I don't know this for sure, but I'm pretty sure they didn't use either as the inspiration for the F-85. Oldsmobile had used the "F" designation for years from 1928 to 1940. In 1941 they began using the 66, 68, 76, 78, 96, and 98. Then in 1949 they simplified the series to 76, 88, and 98. In 1954 they developed the F-88 concept car and then again in 1957. Then in 1961 GM brought out the compact cars, with the Olds receiving the new F-85 badge.

As I understand it, the Cutlass took it's name from the Navy fighter plane of the same name, and I know the Starfire name used on the 1953 Motorama "dream car" was named after a Lockheed jet fighter.

knighthawk

you see that F-85 Goblin ? Just think ! We could all be driving a 'F-85 Goblin '......probabley would look like a Mini Cooper !!!!!!!!! ........ A mini Cooper with a "Rocket" V-8 !!!!!!!!!!
!

Oldsguy

That 'big six' the blue engine pictured above looks like a flathead to me.

That Goblin is a cool!

WhatIf

The Navy's Chance-Vought Cutlass was a short-lived carrier-based Navy fighter of the 1950's. The Cutlass was very underpowered, and disliked by the pilots. They dubbed it the "Gutless Cutlass", which is where that term came from.

Oldsmobile just used the 'rocket' theme, space age, space race, etc. It was THE thing to be interested in in the 50's and 60's. That's where the Olds Rocket came from (1949), along with the Jetfire and Starfire nameplates. It was actually a great marketing campaign.

Other manufacturers used race track or race series names for their cars in the 50's to the 1980's. Bonneville, Chevy Laguna, Dodge Monaco, Grand Prix, Grand Am, Trans Am, Chevy Monza, Pontiac LeMans, Ford Talledega, Dodge Daytona, Plymouth Sebring.

No idea how (or why) Oldsmobile switched to Alero, Intrigue, Trofeo, Bravada, and Aurora, except that they felt they needed a rebirth of sorts in the 90's.

MDchanic

Yes, the six was a flathead. The V8 was the new engine.
Sixes were usually the orphans (and fours, like the Iron Duke, were the redheaded stepchildren).

What was the space program in the '90's? Nothing.
Where were we going? Nowhere.
What was the only space news through that whole period? The Challenger exploding?

Pitiful, really, compared to whee we seemed to be headed in the fifties and sixties.

- Eric

WhatIf

Yes, I can see why they got away from the rocket emblem, but I don't think it had to do with the 90's and a disinterest in the space program. Cadillac (crest) and Buick (shield) have used their old logos for 50+ years without a problem.

I think Oldsmobile was trying to get away from their past. They changed their logo, then eliminated all their old badges (88, 98, Cutlass, etc). That sort of signaled where they were going. I think Pontiac did the same thing by eliminating their nameplates like Grand Am, Grand Prix, Bonneville, but at least they kept their arrowhead logo.

The 90's were pretty bad, but not as bad as today! If they want to reflect current society and culture, we'd have the Chevrolet Bankrupt LT, the Poverty SS, Camaro Unemployed, and the Corvette Socialism Z06.

MDchanic

Wouldn't that be the '12 Chevette Socialism and the '10 Corvette Bailout with the Golden Parachute Edition option package?

- Eric

joe_padavano

The aluminum 215 used in the 1961 F-85 was called the "Rockette".

I am not making this up.

KeithA0000

I'm a through-and-through V8 man, so don't take this the wrong way, but, as I recall, the Quad-4 was quite an engine for it's day, when it came out. My understanding is that GM could not put it into production at its top horsepower rating, because they didn't have an automatic transmission that could come close to handling the power. (I mean newer, more modern and much smaller than the venerable THM350's, etc.). If there was such a transmission at the time, I'd venture to say that the Quad-4 would have made GM proud. And who knows what could have come from it?

joe_padavano

No argument. I have one in a 1990 Grand Am, and even in base 150 HP trim it's a good little motor. It's just that "Rocket I-4" doesn't have the same ring.

As for the Grand Am, I got it for free with the intent of using the Q4 in a track roadster project. The Q4 can be dressed to look like an Offy 4 cyl with little effort. Unfortunately, that's yet ANOTHER car I need to build before I die...