Dan Wirth

I have been looking at some of the "Oil" forums and their posts on motor oils for the older cars. Whew...what a varied and arduous subject to embark upon. Quite frankly, it gave me a giant headache.

I will try to sum up what my head tells me to believe, and will try to keep it as short as possible (although the odds may be against it):

From what I've gathered, a sort of general consensus is first - the motor oils that have ZDDP already in them, between 1200-1400ppm, seem to be the best sources for bringing phosphorous and zinc anti-wear additives back to the older flat tappet cam engines. The second choice is a ZDDP additive, if the oil your using for your older engine has very low amounts, or has no ZDDP.

The difficulty to both scenarios are the product choices.

In my search to find some end to the above scenarios (IMO), I would have to say that AMSOIL 10W-40 AMO (a synthetic) solves the motor oil issue and contains the ZDDP anti-wear agents. However, it's significantly higher in price of the conventional motor oils

And although STP claims to have the engine wear issue covered with the blue and red bottle products (more so in the red bottle), nothing seems to come close to ZDDPLUS. And ZDDPLUS is not affraid to address "ZDDP" in their product advertisements. ZDDPLUS is also higher in price than some of the other additives I've seen.

So now that I've given my 2 cents worth, it would be great to hear some of your experiences or opinions on this subject?

1. What in you opinion is the best anti-wear engine oil (with ZDDP) for our older cars?

2. If you are using a modern technology oil with little or no ZDDP, what additive would you recommend?

Aceshigh

Obviously start up is where most wear occurs.
So the lightest weight is desirable IMO.

I run a 5w-30 sythetic. You can never go wrong with AMSOIL.
Are they more expensive ??? Yes.....but worth every penny
considering you probably won't do more then 1 oil change a year.

Lady72nRob71

Dino diesel oil. Best protection for the buck. I have researched this al lot also.

This thread has lots of good info.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ne-engine.html
Wireman134 added a great link that shows the chemical contents of various diesel oils. Numbers 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 13, 14, & 14 were the better ones. You have to read the article and pick out the brands. Even the walmart brand rated quite good!

Synthetic or dino has no relation to ZDDP levels.
ZDDP of car oils way back when had levels of 1200+. MOST diesel oil is 1000+ The latest car oil may be around 800-900.

Look for CI or CI plus rating in the "starburst". CJ is more "emission friendly" and is now overtaking CI. However, most CJ is better (ZDDP-wise) than standard car oil...
I just picked up a few gallons this morning for 11.50 / 5qt at Wally's. Since I am in TX, I use 15-w40.

Ever notice that the 5qt sizes of all oil is being replaced with 4qt? Kinda like the 16oz potato chip bags being used to hold 9oz of chips. However, your car still NEEDS 5qt! Geez...

Olds64

I think most oils are created equally when it comes down to it. I run Rotella T. I've heard it has alot of detergents in it since it is a diesel oil.

Lady72nRob71

Rotella T in CJ form also has ZDDP levels of just over 1100 - still good for our Olds engines...
Chemical analysis varies a bit brand to brand...

delmontcrusier

well I use quakerstate oil the family has used it for years before that it was kendall motor oil.We use 10w-40 in all our vehicles I don't like the 5w oils runs too hot that leads to wear.I have a 10w-40 that is in a red bottle from quakerstate that is for classic or old cars ( I use it in my 67) I will take a picture of the bottle so you guys can see.

Dan Wirth

Good info and Wireman134's link tells the story well. I think you really need the data/analysis to make a correct decision on the oil products. And this data needs to be updated regularly (not more than a year old, due to potential changes made by the product manufacturers).

Diesel oil seems to be a good solution (15W-40), as well as a reasonably priced alternative for bringing back ZDDP to the passenger car. The problem is...how long will ZDDP continue to be added to the diesel oils by the product manufacturers. It would seem (from the links I've read) that some of diesel oil product manufacturers are dropping ZDDP levels - and that aint good.

delmontcrusier

well the good thing is they sell zddp additives just like the lead additive for older cars so even if they reduce the amount in the oils you can still put it in.I did a quick search and it isn't hard to find.

Nilsson

Valvolene VR1, no guessing no worries problem solved. Go to the Valvo website and read all about it.

Dan Wirth

I was on the verge of buying Valvoline VR1 until I read this independant oil report (this oil was twice tested with similar results for Zinc and Phospherous levels, which is near or below 900 ppm (too low IMO):

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...819165&fpart=2

Olds64

Truthfully, I use Wal-Mart brand oil. I don't even care what weight it is, I just buy whatever brand I see first. It is cheap and easy to find. I change the oil once every blue moon. It has gone 12,000 miles before whithout an oil change. I had to get my dad to change it for me since I didn't know how.

Nilsson

Those tests where found to be inclusive/flawed Valvoline guarantees 1200 parts Zinc.





I think you would happy using any oil you can find and add ZDDP to it.

Lady72nRob71

Wally's diesel oil was tested to be a very good one! I would have got it, but the store i went to did not have it - must be popular...

Olds64

Do your part and fill your cart!

70 cutlass s

Here's a new one for you micro oil like they use in airplanes. It bonds to the metal and only takes a little just add to your oil change. Protects the internals of a motor when start it up. Know trying to buy some is a little harder. You have check out small airports sometimes they will sell to you.

Dan Wirth

Considered flawed by whom? If Valvoline, I would be skeptical.

I do agree with your 2nd statement. The ZDDP additive is another way to go.

Nilsson

On their website download the pdf for VR1 and they state the Zinc and Phosphorus content for both the VRI Racing/street and the VR1 racing (not street legal)

Racing/street .13/.14 and the VRI not street legal .14/.15.

I just mention this oil because it has worked for me all these years. I drive my cars like they were meant to be driven. I drive them hard but don't necessarily abuse them to much.

Sometimes we can be so skeptical that we miss out on a good thing. Not one independent test proves anything. I find it hard to belive that Valvolene states the Z/P content (revised 12/08) and then does not have that in the oil? Come on, that is a bit much.

jeffreyalman

my mechanic swears by Rotella T and a qt of Lucas Oil treatment to top off between oil changes (usually down a qt when close to time for the next change)

Aceshigh

Definitely not.

Royal Purple has additives in it that Lexus recommends even to prevent
that notorious issue they had with their V6 motors.....where the valve train
was gumming up.

To each their own but I refuse to support Walmarx and the sellout of US manufacturing they are leading the drive with.

If you don't know who funded the research, then it very well could have been funded by Walmart.
Alot of giant companies do this, drug companies do it too.....just saying , verify who is funding the research for bias.

Olds64

Dan Wirth

Granted - but I found it interesting that a guy like you and me spent the bucks and time to hire an independent lab, in fact twice hired to analyze Valvoline VR1 and found the Z/P discrepancies.

I think that your use of the VR1 over a long period of time is noteworthy, and it does serve credence to this product and it is more than likely an excellent one. (I'm still considering it myself - you have convince me not to discard the idea of choosing VR1).

But I must say that I am tired of these large companies paying lip service in their advertisements, going unchallenged, and not delivering. It's gotta do your heart good knowing there are people out in the general public stepping up and making the challenges at theirown expense, no?

Dan Wirth

I've only heard good things about the Rotella product. Am using it in my Ford F250 Turbo Diesel, and have also been considering it for my 57 Olds. But I sure like the idea of the AMSOIL product, as per Aceshigh's post, where you only need to change your oil every 25000 miles. Just need to find a local dealer, if I finally decide on it.

Bunser

I've used Shell Rotella for many,many years and have had good success with it.I've used it in everything fom a 77 Chev van,91 Jeep Cherokee (3oo,ooo+ miles) and my 70 Cutlass.A friend who worked in the local Esso plant, used to tell me about the lab tests on their different competitors' oil.Shell Rotella always ranked right up in the top one or two!Just my two cents worth.

Dan Wirth

It would be great to see that data on Rotella. However, like the Valvoline VR1 product, it's tried and true.

The anti-wear oil options are growing on this thread.

Thanks to all for your replies.

jeffreyalman

so does the Rotella address the zinc issue? Is it something I need to worry about with 75 350 and 76 455s?

Nilsson

Dan,
Be aware that Bob the oil guy (is this the study) you are referring to, I have heard is a little biased toward Mobil 1 products. I don't blame him as they sponsor him. Also don't confuse the Dino VR1 with the synthetic VR1. Mobil 1 and Valvoline syn have been in a pis*ing match for sometime over each others claims. I think Mobil 1 had to retract some bad publicity that they had been spreading around about Valvoline syn oils. You know two large players throwing mud at each other.

Avoid any oils with the sunburst symbol and you are most likely good to go as long as it is a quality oil.

I was always under the impression that diesel oils tend to foam more when used in car engines Anybody know if there is any credence to this or is it just some misinformation? Something about higher rpm engines cause it to foam, probably one of those urban myths?

wolfman98

Something to check on cause I know that they just changed it. I use it in the tractor and it is recommended for it but I just read that the CI-4 was changed to CJ-4 to meet with the needs of the newer diesel trucks. I think it said something about the catalytic converter? I will have to see if I can find any more info on it.

driftolds

hey guys i know im new to this forum but ihave a 71 cutlass and i run castrol synthetic and lucas zinc additive and i have been doing that for the last year or so and i get great results.

Dan Wirth

Rotella T still has Zinc and Phos in the oil, if rated CJ-4, but to a lesser degree than the older CI-4. If the Lucas product your mechanic recommends makes up the difference, then I would say not to worry. However I believe you will need to look at both products and to make that determination.

To know more about the API Averages, there is a link that may help (although lengthy ):

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html.

(Here's a short cut: Scroll aways down to the API chart under):
What motor oils had the 0.12% levels of zinc and phosphorus recommended?
(Then scroll down again - about a page away to):
How can I find what API specification the oil I use meets or how do I find an oil with Zn and P levels higher than an API SL or SM oil?

(and use the viscosity highlighted to get you to the appropriate Rotella rating). For example, the "15W-40" is selected, then scroll down to Rotella. You will see that Rotella T at 15W-40 is rated CJ-4 Plus. (I think I would go with the CJ-4, until the "Plus" is defined).

driftolds

um excuse me but my mechanic is me and i was just voicing my own thoughts follow what u want like everyone else in this forum

Dan Wirth

Take a look at Jefferyalman's post above, I am speaking to his post at the moment

Dan Wirth

Good point. Take a look at my previous post in reply to Jeffreyalman. There is a bundle of info on the link shown that seems unbiased to me and may be of interest you. Tell me what you think...

About the foaming issue - that, I simply don't know about. Anyone out there have this experience with diesel oil foaming in gas engines?

Dan Wirth

Wolfman98, thanks for the tip. For more info on the averages please look at my post in reply to Jeffryalman.

The newer API CJ-4 averages 819(ppm) for Phos, and 1014(ppm) for Zinc. The older API CI-4 averages 1150 (ppm) for Phos, and 1374 (ppm) for Zinc.

Dan Wirth

I was looking at the Castrol GTX Synthetic Diesel today at my local auto store and if my memory serves me, it carries the API SJ rating. Per the chart mentioned in a previous post here, SE-SJ averages 1301(ppm) for Phos, and 1280(ppm) for Zinc. Right up there in the 1200-1400(ppm) target range.

kaz442

I use Brad Penn http://www.bradpennracing.com/Zinc.html its the old Kendal. Was recemended by a well known proformance engine builder after they change the formula of Rotalla a few yrs ago. Not crazy $ about $4.50 qt. Works well for me and I abuse my rides!! JKaz

Lady72nRob71

Not hardly... Ironically, the guy testing the oils said the same thing about Walmart and did not put it in the 'recommended' class, despite the very good chemical analysis.
I personally concluded that is is a good oil for the price by just looking at the numbers.

Sounds like a big design/quality issue that demands a recall! Of course we all know toyo would never do that...

Not a true cat converter, but a particulate filter. It is an emission control on newer diesels that I welcome, but unfortunately the oils have to change just like the car oils. In years to come, I will figure I will have to get the pricey bottles of ZDDP additives...

Just keep in mind these are running averages. Some brands are in the 800's and some in the 1100's/1200's. Rotella is in the higher bracket along with Chevron delo 400. Much better than SM oils!

Last thing is that any of my recommendations are for stock street engines. Built engines for racing (high spring pressures, etc.) have higher requirements...

citcapp

All of these oil issues is one of the reasons I went with full roller lifters, cam and rockers in my 455 build for the 57 and will do the same with the 455 in thee 48. More money yes. but the price of piece of mind was worth it as my builds are for performance street/strip use. Just my 2 cents

I use shell rotella in all of my cars

Dan Wirth

According to L&N Enginering, Brad Penn and Swepco 306 are high-end oils. Brad Penn Racing Oil and Swepco 306 are ideal for older engines. Brad Penn is a partial synthetic and Swepco 306 is a multi grade.

Dan Wirth

Good point to keep in mind going forward into this maze of oil technology!

Dan Wirth

That sounds expensive - and I think your right, the oil issues are getting extremely complex - keeping up iwith the updates in oil technology is almost like watching the nightly news.

Off the subject: I am having difficulty with mutiple quotes, any ideas on how that works in the replies?