Best oil for the older car and ZDDP?
October 15th, 2009, 08:07 AM
#81
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
I'm still confused!! 
I'll never look at oil the same as I used to!! It's like steel - until I started working in the steel industry, I never knew that steel was made up of different "ingredients"! I never really thought about it, or had any reason to think about it! To me, steel was steel. Heavy, dirty, and rusts in water! I never looked at a block of steel and wondered hmmmm... is that A-36, P-20, W-2 etc... Then I find out that different steels have different chemical analysis' that they are made of.
Kind of like oils. I'll never remember all this technical stuff, so I'm sure I'll still be asking questions!! I've worked around steel for 14 years now, and what I've learned is.... it's heavy, dirty, and rusts in water, no matter what it's chemical analysis is!! LOL!
I'll never look at oil the same as I used to!! It's like steel - until I started working in the steel industry, I never knew that steel was made up of different "ingredients"! I never really thought about it, or had any reason to think about it! To me, steel was steel. Heavy, dirty, and rusts in water! I never looked at a block of steel and wondered hmmmm... is that A-36, P-20, W-2 etc... Then I find out that different steels have different chemical analysis' that they are made of.Kind of like oils. I'll never remember all this technical stuff, so I'm sure I'll still be asking questions!! I've worked around steel for 14 years now, and what I've learned is.... it's heavy, dirty, and rusts in water, no matter what it's chemical analysis is!! LOL!
From all this, here's some conclusions that I have reached (for myself) in a nutshell:
1. Don't use API Service Rated "SM" or "CJ-4" rated motor oils.
2. Use only API Service Rated "SE-SJ", "CI-4". In a pinch, I would also use "SL" (but has a bit less ZDDP than I would like to see).
Last edited by Dan Wirth; October 15th, 2009 at 08:20 AM.
October 15th, 2009, 08:27 AM
#83
Cutlass Lover
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
Posts: 6,587
Yeah, what BOTH of you said!!
So what oil should a 37 year old Olds 350 engine have in it?; the tires don't get smoked, the car doesn't get raced; pretty much local driven to car shows,cruise ins and work - city driving w/ stop lights, in nice weather; stored in winter with temps in the teens to below 0 at times, while we're praying for spring? Is there only one or two answers to this???
So what oil should a 37 year old Olds 350 engine have in it?; the tires don't get smoked, the car doesn't get raced; pretty much local driven to car shows,cruise ins and work - city driving w/ stop lights, in nice weather; stored in winter with temps in the teens to below 0 at times, while we're praying for spring? Is there only one or two answers to this???
October 15th, 2009, 08:29 AM
#84
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
October 15th, 2009, 08:38 AM
#86
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
Yeah, what BOTH of you said!!
So what oil should a 37 year old Olds 350 engine have in it?; the tires don't get smoked, the car doesn't get raced; pretty much local driven to car shows,cruise ins and work - city driving w/ stop lights, in nice weather; stored in winter with temps in the teens to below 0 at times, while we're praying for spring? Is there only one or two answers to this???
So what oil should a 37 year old Olds 350 engine have in it?; the tires don't get smoked, the car doesn't get raced; pretty much local driven to car shows,cruise ins and work - city driving w/ stop lights, in nice weather; stored in winter with temps in the teens to below 0 at times, while we're praying for spring? Is there only one or two answers to this???
October 15th, 2009, 08:57 AM
#88
67 heavy metal
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 527
hoo wee this tread has morphed into a monster lol.Who would have thought that there would be this much discussion about oil.My inbox is getting bombarded with this tread
hmm now that I think about it i was going to take pic's of the oil i use and the filters.I will have to try to do that along with the many other things going on today.Have fun with your oil
hmm now that I think about it i was going to take pic's of the oil i use and the filters.I will have to try to do that along with the many other things going on today.Have fun with your oil
October 15th, 2009, 08:59 AM
#89
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
I haven't done much research on this oil so I simply don't know. But from what I see on posts in the motor oil forums, this oil is highly thought of. I'd like to know the API Service Rating of Royal Purple. Do you know what standard it is rated at?
October 15th, 2009, 09:03 AM
#90
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
October 15th, 2009, 09:15 AM
#91
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,257
NAPA sells a 15w-40 diesel oil that is CI rated, with the good add pack.
Redline oils have a high ZDDP level as well.
The issue i have with the designer oils is that they are expensive and hard to find.
BTW, I have used diesel oil in all my collector cars since the mid 1980's with no issues at all.
Redline oils have a high ZDDP level as well.
The issue i have with the designer oils is that they are expensive and hard to find.
BTW, I have used diesel oil in all my collector cars since the mid 1980's with no issues at all.
October 15th, 2009, 09:23 AM
#92
Cutlass Lover
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
Posts: 6,587
[quote=delmontcrusier;115940]hoo wee this tread has morphed into a monster lol.Who would have thought that there would be this much discussion about oil.
Amazing isn't it!! I would have never guessed myself! It has been interesting though. Thanks Dan, I wrote those names down, and will figure it out!! I do love my car and want whats best for her, bless her old heart! Gotta take care of the engine - especially after Bluevista paints it for me!!! LOL!
Amazing isn't it!! I would have never guessed myself! It has been interesting though. Thanks Dan, I wrote those names down, and will figure it out!! I do love my car and want whats best for her, bless her old heart! Gotta take care of the engine - especially after Bluevista paints it for me!!! LOL!
October 15th, 2009, 09:52 AM
#94
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
That's good to know for the viscosity you mentioned, but does it also apply for the other Rotellas? I have found differences between the weights of the other brands. There's also the variables of high performance, diesel, gas, gas and diesel, so forth and so on.
October 15th, 2009, 10:30 AM
#95
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
NAPA sells a 15w-40 diesel oil that is CI rated, with the good add pack.
Redline oils have a high ZDDP level as well.
The issue i have with the designer oils is that they are expensive and hard to find.
BTW, I have used diesel oil in all my collector cars since the mid 1980's with no issues at all.
Redline oils have a high ZDDP level as well.
The issue i have with the designer oils is that they are expensive and hard to find.
BTW, I have used diesel oil in all my collector cars since the mid 1980's with no issues at all.
True, some of the synthetics like AMSOIL are an order online or via a local dealer situation. Also, for example, Brad Penn - I have not seen in my neck of the woods, although I know how to order it, which seems easy enough.
Keep in mind that no matter what oil you choose, they may change overtime to accommodates newer standards and engine technologies.
For the older cars/trucks, racing cars, motorcycles, farm vehicles, other high performance engines, etc. - special attention in the way we make a selection is warranted, IMO.
October 15th, 2009, 11:11 AM
#96
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lehigh Valley Pa
Posts: 731
Amsoil has independent dealers in specific areas around the country, go to their website for more info where they are located. I have not seen their products in the auto stores - but wish they had them there. You can also purchase their products on line, which is a good option except for the S&H expense. But you still save over the long run , needing only one oil/filter change per year or 25000 miles (whichever comes first) on their premium products.
CJ-4 has a running average of phos = 819(ppm) and zinc = 1014(ppm). Below the example target range of 1200-1400(ppm) I am looking for.
There is a study (and API chart) by LN Engineering that gives these API Service running averages (in previous post of this thread) that may be of interest to you.
CJ-4 has a running average of phos = 819(ppm) and zinc = 1014(ppm). Below the example target range of 1200-1400(ppm) I am looking for.
- CI-4 (on the other hand) is in the target range, having phos = 1150(ppm) and zinc = 1374(ppm)
There is a study (and API chart) by LN Engineering that gives these API Service running averages (in previous post of this thread) that may be of interest to you.
October 15th, 2009, 03:08 PM
#97
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
(I would like to hear from someone who actually has first hand experience with this oil - as I do not, but do like what I read).
October 15th, 2009, 06:01 PM
#98
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lehigh Valley Pa
Posts: 731
Interesting. So I presume you have also been using AMSOIL for years. If so, how do you feel it stacks up (generally) against the others and why?
(I would like to hear from someone who actually has first hand experience with this oil - as I do not, but do like what I read).
(I would like to hear from someone who actually has first hand experience with this oil - as I do not, but do like what I read).
Ok here's the whole story. I built an S-10 with the 4.3L V-6. I started to AutoX it and spun a bearing my first time out. After that a Mechanic all but insisted that If I was going to do that I was going to run AMSOIL. So I ran their 20W-50 racing oil. Now this is not the same 20W-50 that I run now as that stuff was red like hydraulic fluid with the consistancy of baby oil. I ran that stuff and would simply wait till the oil started to look dirty then change the filter, And the next time it got dirty I would change the oil. So about once a year I would change the oil. Now I was AutoXing and later would road race it. So figure running 20 minutes at a time constant of hard acceleration and braking. I also used this truck as my daily driver in all kinds of weather. There were times I would come out of work late at night with the temps 10 degrees or lower and simply hop in start it and go. No warm up. I put in excess of 12K miles a year. That woulld be all hard miles as I did not treat this truck gently which is kinda how it liked it. So yea you can say I am more than happy with it and it's performance.
October 16th, 2009, 04:54 AM
#100
Captain of my ship
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Annapolis Valley , Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,880
Myself I would not touch the Royal Purple because of some experience. I work for asplundh tree service and they had changed the fleet of trucks over to royal Purple because of the claims of the oil and going further between oil changes but they soon started having major problems including 2 motors blowing up ( an expression ) they did replace 2 motors and had overheating issues and breakdowns so they changed all the trucks back over. Now these trucks are used a lot and many of them are pretty old for the buisness. 10 years and the trucks are pretty much toast though they have a couple older than that.
October 16th, 2009, 06:48 AM
#101
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
This info is good to know, but it does make me wonder just how old those trucks were when the engines blew and how beat up they may have been from the work runs and multiple drivers.
October 16th, 2009, 10:19 AM
#103
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
October 16th, 2009, 11:48 AM
#104
Captain of my ship
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Annapolis Valley , Nova Scotia
Posts: 1,880
normally it's one driver resposible for that particular truck , but I know a couple of younger guys that are really hard on them. most of them were big block gas motors with I think the 366 being the motor that was one that "blew". Even when they are sitting still the motor runs the hydraulics so you have to keep the RPM up.
October 16th, 2009, 03:52 PM
#105
67 heavy metal
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 527
well all this hub bub about oil and I said I was going to post pic's and info on the oil I use so here it is.The first is the normal oil I use for my vehicles and the fram filter I use in them.The second is the oil I use in my olds it is for old or classic vehicles and has slick 50 in it.The oil filter is a baldwin as fram doesn't have the long filter for my car it used to be a 11 they discontinued them.The baldwin is a good quality filter and I don't mind paying the 5 bux to have a decent filter.
November 14th, 2009, 06:59 PM
#106
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 127
Well I have been debating this issue as well and have seen similar threads on other sites with just as many varied opinions...makes it tough. I have been leaning towards Valvoline VR1 or Brad Penn. However, I'm a bit concerned about the lack of detergents in these oils as they are made for high performance use. I do drive my car "aggressively" so high performance oil is fine. I just feel like I'm losing the detergents to gain the zinc???
November 14th, 2009, 07:38 PM
#107
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Southwest
Posts: 470
Well I have been debating this issue as well and have seen similar threads on other sites with just as many varied opinions...makes it tough. I have been leaning towards Valvoline VR1 or Brad Penn. However, I'm a bit concerned about the lack of detergents in these oils as they are made for high performance use. I do drive my car "aggressively" so high performance oil is fine. I just feel like I'm losing the detergents to gain the zinc???
For myself, I am opting for the higher levels of ZDDP.
June 15th, 2019, 10:50 PM
#109
JC
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
June 15th, 2019, 10:56 PM
#110
JC
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
June 16th, 2019, 02:13 AM
#111
Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: S.E. Louisiana, so far still in U.S.A.
Posts: 1,613
Thanks for the links. The same principles should apply as they did 10 years ago. The flat tappet guys still need to be vigilant. Perhaps some of the anti-wear additives have been further reduced. It would be nice if the manufacturers would divulge their additives and the levels.
June 16th, 2019, 06:15 AM
#112
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melville, Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,911
Oils have changed a lot, for flat tappet cars, not for the better. SN plus in a 30W or less can only have 800 ppm zinc and 700 phosphate. The 40W and up get tricky. Even in SN they can have high ZDDP, it will depend brand to brand. This is why 10W40 and 20W50 VR1 have a SN rating despite having 1300 ZDDP.
June 16th, 2019, 06:28 AM
#113
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Ranch Ca.
Posts: 7,714
Most everything has changed including what I use(Rotella T 15-40) but it still has enough ZDDP that I have no tappet issues. What was good 10 years ago may or may not be the same oil or near the same formula anymore.... Tedd
June 17th, 2019, 11:34 AM
#118
1968 442 Convertible
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Broken Arrow, Oklahoma
Posts: 347
Best buy at Tractor Supply. I think it is up to T4 these days. 10w30 and 15w40 are ci/ch rated. Straight 30 Rotella no longer contains Zn & Ph in required cam break in levels. It is only rated CJ, which ain’t no good for flat tappets.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
