wolfman98

I am putting this in this forum to see if any of you guys have dealt with anything similar.I am agonizinly close to getting my 98 convertible back on the road but a couple of snags. first was the rad had sprung lots of leaks and I am going to have to replace it second is that I cannot get the wipers working. I am getting juice to both washer and wiper parts but the motor is not coming on.Mine is the one that combines both washer and wiper in one unit so it has 2 plug ins. There is a 2 prong for the washer pump and 3 prong for the wiper motor.I took off the front plate and under that I found a black relay/switch? where the power goes into and then comes out to go to the motor. When I plug in the 3 prong and turn on the wipers I can see a little spark in this unit but even with the wipers not hooked to it the motor does not turn.Is there a fault with this relay or could it be in the motor? Or are there any other possible reasons it is not working? Any help would be greatly appreciated
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfman98/ pics of the motor

wolfman98

well this is what I feared , that nobody would post a response with any suggestions. I am going to try to post a pic of it with the plate off and show the switch/relay where I am getting a spark , hope that helps.

Oldsguy

I think you could get a complete unit from the local junk yard if you can find an early seventies GM, they all used the same kind of wiper motor assembly. It could be the relay or it could be the motor but either way you will find it difficult to get OEM parts.

Edit: I looked closer at the pictures you provided and it sparked my memory. If you have a voltmeter check the two wires going to the motor itself. Have a helper activate the wiper switch and see if you have voltage on either one of those wires. One of them has to have voltage, if it does and the motor still does not work then you probably have a bad motor. If you don't have voltage on either wire in any condition then it would be a faulty relay. As I said before, you will find it hard to get replacement parts. You may be able to take the assembly to a repair shop that rebuilds starters and alternators, that would be right up their alley. We have a shop in town that I have used before and that is all they do is motors and relays. It might cost you some money though.

wolfman98

Have not found parts for this anywhere and have not checked junkyards yet but I have looked for other parts in junkyards and there is a serious lack of late 60's early 70's Olds anywhere around here. Finding a replacement motor may have to be the answer unfortunately I will start looking soon if this one won't work for me.

wolfman98

Something I forgot to mention is that it was working when i took it off last fall and that is why I have been trying to figure out what is wrong with it now.

Lady72nRob71

This looks like the same motor on my car. In your pictures, that big relay/solenoid by your thumb ~appears~ to be only to activate the washer.
All those yellow wires are always hot (with key in IGN position) and grounding the dark blue wire (in the 2-wire connector) clicks that solenoid and starts the wash cycle (only is the wiper motor is turning though).

The run/park/high speed relay looks to be deeper inside the motor unit.
On the 3/4-wire connector, grounding the black wire should activate low speed and grounding both the black and the light blue activate high speed. (grounding the light blue really activates the run/park/high speed relay to energize more coils in the motor.) If the low speed motor coils are open, then the high speed will not work either.
This testing can be tried under the hood to help rule out a bad wiper switch.

Is the motor assy grounded to the car body correctly? This could prevent the motor working even though the wash solenoid and run/park/high speed relay works.
Not sure WHERE or HOW it grounds since it mounts on those rubber grommets, but that could be tested by connecting a jumper wire from the motor case to chassis/body.
If you repainted the firewall around the motor or left off a ground wire, that could be an issue why it used to work but not now.

See if this schematic can help...

dingusboy

Rob may be on to something. The unit should have a grounding strap to the frame. If it is there, it could be that the new paint is interfering with the ground. Also, make sure the switch is mounted (grounded) to the dash when you are testing it. I learned that one the hard way. If all else fails you could try a rebuilder like Midwest Remanufacturing. They are located just outside Chicago. I used them for my 65 Cutlass wiper motor. Their number is listed in Hemmings or PM me for more info.

ragtopblu

Wolfman, Ragtopblue here, glad i'm not the only one with wiper issues LOL sorry, Actually if you have a NAPA in your area you can get a new assembly with pump unit included. Just make sure to tell them whether it a has concealed wipers or not. runs about 90.00. I can give you the unit number tomorrow if interested. Note it looks like the original aside for the markings which should be fine if your not doing a concourse resto, or at least till you fine an original. My issue is mine runs but wipers go into park and oscelate up and down 2 inches and don't shut off. When in low they run as if in high and in high they go back to oscelating again. Definately make sure your firewall is bare metal where grounding strap meets it. Also check to make sure you have the right wiper switch I found out that there is 2 different ones. If it has a 101 one the switch ( behind the dash bezel ) it is for concealed wipers. I think 102 is for non concealed but someone on this can confirm this. If I get more info I'll let you know. Best of luck.

ragtopblu

wolfman, I just went out to my garage and found my NaPA wiper box.
The unit number is 49 - 142. Hope this helps.

Ragtopblue

wolfman98

Still having issues with it electrically speaking. The horns remain an issue since I can't get them working , as they did when I took them off. I sanded them down where they attach to the body and sanded the body to ensure good contact then cleaned the contacts on the horns and the plug ins but still nothing. The wiper motor I attached a ground wire and grounded to the body as was suggested then used a contact cleaner to get to hard to reach 3 plug from the back. When I tried it again I got smoke from the back of the 3 prong plug in so I shut it off. After cooling off I tried it again to see if I had fried it but it just does the clicking and motor does not turn. There is a tight coiled wire behind the 3 prong plug and it gets hot ( I know cause I touched it ) so it must be getting juice there and it goes into that black plastic box that has a wire coming out going to motor. I can see the spark in there when I turn it on and it clicks. So is the wiper/washer motor no good? What could be the problems with the horns and anyway to test them to see if they work?

ragtopblu

Wolfman did you check or replace the Horn relay? Also what year is your car. I know that 72's had an internal wiper relay in the motor but believe that the 70 / 71's had an external relay.

wolfman98

No I did not check it as not sure how to test that to see if it's working? Electrical is my downfall on these old cars. mine is a 1969 98 convertible and the wiper motor is also the washer pump combined.I assume that the black plastic box inside the cover plate is an internal relay but not sure. It has the 3 prong plugin for the wiper and 2 prong for the washer. I just know that it's getting juice to the black plastic relay cause I can see a spark inside this unit when I turn on the wipers. It has a wire coming out of it leading into the motor , the motor has two wires , the one coming out is a black wire and I assume that's a ground wire. Maybe that is the problem? I will have to check the schemeatic to see if I can figure out how the whole unit grounds. As for the horn relay there must be a way to bypass it and hook direct current from the battery just to make sure they work? That way I would know the problem is at the relay.

Lady72nRob71

To quick check the horns, just run a wire from the battery and touch the other end to the horn terminal to see if they blow. This will verify horns themselves and grounds.

What year is your 98?
Does your horn relay looks like this? If so, take a look at the connector that is plugged into the relay...
Grounding the black wire will energize the relay and the horns should blow (leave plug in relay.) If they blow, relay is good, so check connections in the steery column and under dash.

If it does not work in above test, jump from the main + junction at the big nut and short to the green horn wire (connector may be unplugged). Horn should blow. If so, replace relay. If not, look for breaks in the green wire going to the horns... (Make sure horns themselves work, first.)

wolfman98

Yeah it looks like that , it's a 69 and has lots hooked to the relay.