Trouble with roller tip rockers on stock heads?
August 18th, 2012, 08:12 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
Steves advise on setting preload is dead on. You have been doing it completely wrong so your valves are way out of adjustment. If you set the valves right it may not even have a rubbing problem. Let us know how it goes.
If you do have to grind on the heads you need to remove the from the motor. As careful you can be one piece of grinded metal ends up in the motor and it can destroy it.
If you do have to grind on the heads you need to remove the from the motor. As careful you can be one piece of grinded metal ends up in the motor and it can destroy it.
In any case, the pushrods should not contact the head, and if they are there is something causing it. He does not need to grind out the guide holes...he needs to fix the geometry problem. I think he's on his way to doing so though, we'll see how it turns out.
August 18th, 2012, 08:27 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
WOW 16 CRANK turns for a valve adjustment?
I agree that setting lash with the lifter anywhere near the lobe/ ramp is wrong...
I'd recommend the method of setting at TDC #1, making sure that it's TDC compression/power and not TDC exhaust/intake by watching the valve action or by the finger over spark plug hole method.
At TDC compression you can set BOTH rockers and you are DONE with that cylinder.
Turn crank 90 degrees and do #8.
Turn 90 and do #4
repeat for 3-6-5-7-2.
8 crank motions, two complete turns of the crank.
One minor detail- after attaining zero lash, turn the ADJUSTER 3/4 turn more and then lock it down. [In the photos above, his adjuster is the male or bolt part, and it is locked down with the female or nut part.]
On a side note... if correctly setting the lash does not put the pushrod far enough away from the wall... then MAYBE longer pushrods will.
But, no matter how long or short the pushrods are, the contact geometry of the roller tip and valve stem are not affected. THAT is determined by the vertical location, or height, of the rocker pivot point. Which, for this setup, is NOT ADJUSTABLE except by shimming under the pedestal or trimming some away.
Right??
I agree that setting lash with the lifter anywhere near the lobe/ ramp is wrong...
I'd recommend the method of setting at TDC #1, making sure that it's TDC compression/power and not TDC exhaust/intake by watching the valve action or by the finger over spark plug hole method.
At TDC compression you can set BOTH rockers and you are DONE with that cylinder.
Turn crank 90 degrees and do #8.
Turn 90 and do #4
repeat for 3-6-5-7-2.
8 crank motions, two complete turns of the crank.
One minor detail- after attaining zero lash, turn the ADJUSTER 3/4 turn more and then lock it down. [In the photos above, his adjuster is the male or bolt part, and it is locked down with the female or nut part.]
On a side note... if correctly setting the lash does not put the pushrod far enough away from the wall... then MAYBE longer pushrods will.
But, no matter how long or short the pushrods are, the contact geometry of the roller tip and valve stem are not affected. THAT is determined by the vertical location, or height, of the rocker pivot point. Which, for this setup, is NOT ADJUSTABLE except by shimming under the pedestal or trimming some away.
Right??
August 18th, 2012, 09:14 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Shorewood, Il.
Posts: 3,057
One thing not mentioned - are you pumping-up the lifters prior to installation??
I've always used a can of oil, filled higher than a lifter sitting in it, and pushed on a pushrod until firm.
I've heard letting them sit in oil overnight also works, but I like to make sure.
I've always used a can of oil, filled higher than a lifter sitting in it, and pushed on a pushrod until firm.
I've heard letting them sit in oil overnight also works, but I like to make sure.
August 18th, 2012, 09:20 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
WOW 16 CRANK turns for a valve adjustment?
I agree that setting lash with the lifter anywhere near the lobe/ ramp is wrong...
I'd recommend the method of setting at TDC #1, making sure that it's TDC compression/power and not TDC exhaust/intake by watching the valve action or by the finger over spark plug hole method.
At TDC compression you can set BOTH rockers and you are DONE with that cylinder.
Turn crank 90 degrees and do #8.
Turn 90 and do #4
repeat for 3-6-5-7-2.
8 crank motions, two complete turns of the crank.
One minor detail- after attaining zero lash, turn the ADJUSTER 3/4 turn more and then lock it down. [In the photos above, his adjuster is the male or bolt part, and it is locked down with the female or nut part.]
On a side note... if correctly setting the lash does not put the pushrod far enough away from the wall... then MAYBE longer pushrods will.
But, no matter how long or short the pushrods are, the contact geometry of the roller tip and valve stem are not affected. THAT is determined by the vertical location, or height, of the rocker pivot point. Which, for this setup, is NOT ADJUSTABLE except by shimming under the pedestal or trimming some away.
Right??
I agree that setting lash with the lifter anywhere near the lobe/ ramp is wrong...
I'd recommend the method of setting at TDC #1, making sure that it's TDC compression/power and not TDC exhaust/intake by watching the valve action or by the finger over spark plug hole method.
At TDC compression you can set BOTH rockers and you are DONE with that cylinder.
Turn crank 90 degrees and do #8.
Turn 90 and do #4
repeat for 3-6-5-7-2.
8 crank motions, two complete turns of the crank.
One minor detail- after attaining zero lash, turn the ADJUSTER 3/4 turn more and then lock it down. [In the photos above, his adjuster is the male or bolt part, and it is locked down with the female or nut part.]
On a side note... if correctly setting the lash does not put the pushrod far enough away from the wall... then MAYBE longer pushrods will.
But, no matter how long or short the pushrods are, the contact geometry of the roller tip and valve stem are not affected. THAT is determined by the vertical location, or height, of the rocker pivot point. Which, for this setup, is NOT ADJUSTABLE except by shimming under the pedestal or trimming some away.
Right??
August 19th, 2012, 12:02 PM
#46
SXsleeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portage, WI
Posts: 43
rockers
One thing not mentioned - are you pumping-up the lifters prior to installation??
I've always used a can of oil, filled higher than a lifter sitting in it, and pushed on a pushrod until firm.
I've heard letting them sit in oil overnight also works, but I like to make sure.
I've always used a can of oil, filled higher than a lifter sitting in it, and pushed on a pushrod until firm.
I've heard letting them sit in oil overnight also works, but I like to make sure.
We did pre-lube with a drill and gage the first time. This time I am soaking in oil.
Thanx
August 20th, 2012, 07:20 PM
#47
SXsleeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portage, WI
Posts: 43
rockers
I agree with Steve on valve adjustment, however, your push rods appear to about .150 to .200 to short, and the ratio of the rocker appears to be wrong. The push rod should be centered in the cylinder head.
Look into these http://www.harlandsharp.com/amc_jeep_olds.htm.
I have used the above on several engines with no problems.
Look into these http://www.harlandsharp.com/amc_jeep_olds.htm.
I have used the above on several engines with no problems.
Glad he never gave me any beef, but my trust was in him leading me right from the start! Never should have had to go through all this! I think it's takeing years off my life, and I can't offord to give up any more!
Still have to check out push rod length. Little by little!
You've got my number, feel free to call any time.
September 2nd, 2012, 06:34 PM
#49
SXsleeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portage, WI
Posts: 43
rockers
So still having issues with my Rockers! Told Lynn at Mondello what was still happening and he said he would send me a set of new rockers. Here's what he sent me:
Came in a beat up box, rockers wraped in newspapers and stuck in ziplocks! When I called Lynn and asked him "what the hay?" he said he wanted to send me a set just to get me going until the new ones came. He didn't even send any rocker pedistals to install them! Said these had been on a magazine build he was doing and they only had about 40 min. on them. I told him there must have been something wrong with the motor if it only had 40 min. on it because there was wear on the rockers already! Later I checked the newspapers they were wrapped in and they were from Casper, Wy. Magazine build in WY? Aren't they located in Cal.? The whole thing rings with untruth! Finally had to tell him I wanted Harland Sharps and gave him the part number I wanted. Steve helped me with the right part number. We think Lynn has been sending me the wrong ratio rockers. We'll see what I get now????
Came in a beat up box, rockers wraped in newspapers and stuck in ziplocks! When I called Lynn and asked him "what the hay?" he said he wanted to send me a set just to get me going until the new ones came. He didn't even send any rocker pedistals to install them! Said these had been on a magazine build he was doing and they only had about 40 min. on them. I told him there must have been something wrong with the motor if it only had 40 min. on it because there was wear on the rockers already! Later I checked the newspapers they were wrapped in and they were from Casper, Wy. Magazine build in WY? Aren't they located in Cal.? The whole thing rings with untruth! Finally had to tell him I wanted Harland Sharps and gave him the part number I wanted. Steve helped me with the right part number. We think Lynn has been sending me the wrong ratio rockers. We'll see what I get now????
Last edited by sxsleeper; September 2nd, 2012 at 06:43 PM.
October 19th, 2012, 07:15 PM
#51
SXsleeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portage, WI
Posts: 43
rockers
2012-10-19_19-47-06_212.jpg
Well, got new HS Rockers and have them installed!!! WHOOO HAAAA! Modello made me wait almost 6 weeks for them. Harland said they ordered them about a week before I got them. Anyway, my son and I adjusted them just like Steve said in his post, and I have the clearance I need on my push rods! Hurray! Now just need to finish intake and a few other things. Might even be able to hear it run before the snow flies!
Well, got new HS Rockers and have them installed!!! WHOOO HAAAA! Modello made me wait almost 6 weeks for them. Harland said they ordered them about a week before I got them. Anyway, my son and I adjusted them just like Steve said in his post, and I have the clearance I need on my push rods! Hurray! Now just need to finish intake and a few other things. Might even be able to hear it run before the snow flies!
Last edited by sxsleeper; October 19th, 2012 at 07:21 PM.
November 3rd, 2012, 03:54 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Arkansas & Georgia
Posts: 87
Did this issue get fixed? Can someone show as to which rockers are on the intake valves and whick ones are on the exhaust valves? From the front of the motor starting with cylinder #1 it should go intake, exhaust, intake, exhaust, intake, exhaust, intake, exhaust. And it is the same orientation on the opposite side of the motor. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
November 3rd, 2012, 04:24 PM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 1,964
So still having issues with my Rockers! Told Lynn at Mondello what was still happening and he said he would send me a set of new rockers. Here's what he sent me:
Came in a beat up box, rockers wraped in newspapers and stuck in ziplocks! When I called Lynn and asked him "what the hay?" he said he wanted to send me a set just to get me going until the new ones came. He didn't even send any rocker pedistals to install them! Said these had been on a magazine build he was doing and they only had about 40 min. on them. I told him there must have been something wrong with the motor if it only had 40 min. on it because there was wear on the rockers already! Later I checked the newspapers they were wrapped in and they were from Casper, Wy. Magazine build in WY? Aren't they located in Cal.? The whole thing rings with untruth! Finally had to tell him I wanted Harland Sharps and gave him the part number I wanted. Steve helped me with the right part number. We think Lynn has been sending me the wrong ratio rockers. We'll see what I get now????
Came in a beat up box, rockers wraped in newspapers and stuck in ziplocks! When I called Lynn and asked him "what the hay?" he said he wanted to send me a set just to get me going until the new ones came. He didn't even send any rocker pedistals to install them! Said these had been on a magazine build he was doing and they only had about 40 min. on them. I told him there must have been something wrong with the motor if it only had 40 min. on it because there was wear on the rockers already! Later I checked the newspapers they were wrapped in and they were from Casper, Wy. Magazine build in WY? Aren't they located in Cal.? The whole thing rings with untruth! Finally had to tell him I wanted Harland Sharps and gave him the part number I wanted. Steve helped me with the right part number. We think Lynn has been sending me the wrong ratio rockers. We'll see what I get now????
November 3rd, 2012, 06:53 PM
#54
SXsleeper
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Portage, WI
Posts: 43
rockers
Yes, i have the problem solved. Order the Harland Sharps, installed and adjusted just like Steve had recommended at I have the clearance on the push rods I need! Putting the rest together soon and will be fireing her up!
Adjustment:
Proper procedure for a hydraulic cam is:
1. ADJUSTING INTAKE:
Turn the engine over in the direction of running rotation until the exhaust lifter / pushrod begins to move upward. You can now adjust the intake valve of that same cylinder and be assured you are on the 'base cirle' of the intake lobe.
Tighten the adjusting nut until all the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. By lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, you will feel a point at which there will be a slight resistance. At that point, you have taken all the excess slack out of the pushrod. You are now at "zero lash". Turn the adjusting nut 3/4 turn more. This will give you the ideal pre-load of the rocker arm, pushrod, and lifter. Following this procedure, adjust all intake valves.
REPEAT 8 TIMES
2. ADJUSTING EXHAUST:
Turn the engine over in the direction of running rotation until the intake lifter / pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate past maximum lift, approximately 1/2 o 2/3 of the way back down. You can now adjust the exhaust valve of that same cylinder and be assured you are on the 'base cirle' of the exhaust lobe.
Tighten the adjusting nut until all the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. By lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, you will feel a point at which there will be a slight resistance. At that point, you have taken all the excess slack out of the pushrod. You are now at "zero lash". Turn the adjusting nut 3/4 turn more. This will give you the ideal pre-load of the rocker arm, pushrod, and lifter. Following this procedure, adjust all exhaust valves.
REPEAT 8 TIMES
Putting the rest together soon and will be fireing her up! Adjustment:
Proper procedure for a hydraulic cam is:
1. ADJUSTING INTAKE:
Turn the engine over in the direction of running rotation until the exhaust lifter / pushrod begins to move upward. You can now adjust the intake valve of that same cylinder and be assured you are on the 'base cirle' of the intake lobe.
Tighten the adjusting nut until all the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. By lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, you will feel a point at which there will be a slight resistance. At that point, you have taken all the excess slack out of the pushrod. You are now at "zero lash". Turn the adjusting nut 3/4 turn more. This will give you the ideal pre-load of the rocker arm, pushrod, and lifter. Following this procedure, adjust all intake valves.
REPEAT 8 TIMES
2. ADJUSTING EXHAUST:
Turn the engine over in the direction of running rotation until the intake lifter / pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate past maximum lift, approximately 1/2 o 2/3 of the way back down. You can now adjust the exhaust valve of that same cylinder and be assured you are on the 'base cirle' of the exhaust lobe.
Tighten the adjusting nut until all the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. By lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, you will feel a point at which there will be a slight resistance. At that point, you have taken all the excess slack out of the pushrod. You are now at "zero lash". Turn the adjusting nut 3/4 turn more. This will give you the ideal pre-load of the rocker arm, pushrod, and lifter. Following this procedure, adjust all exhaust valves.
REPEAT 8 TIMES
March 19th, 2021, 06:34 AM
#55
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 6
66 400 stock heads roller rockers
Might have to run stock heads for a little while due to Edelbrocks lack of production, i have a set of HS Rollers, anyone see an issue in running new stock pushrods with HS Roller rockers? I know ill need 5/16 x 7/16 rocker studs to do it but....is the tip size on the pushrod an issue for the rockers or is it not a problem to use this setup until i can swap out the heads??
No crazy cam or anything but the block is now at 40 over with mild street cam
No crazy cam or anything but the block is now at 40 over with mild street cam
March 20th, 2021, 02:45 PM
#56
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Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: The Seasonally-Frozen Wastelands
Posts: 660
Also, you can't run stock pushrods if the new rockers require guideplates--you must have hardened pushrods if you're using guideplates.
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