sxsleeper

I've put shaft mount roller tip rockers from Mondello on my 455 and have been having problems getting them adjusted right. Have had covers off three times now and just now noticed push rods rubbing just slightly on bottom side of hole. What have some done to fix, or what is solution?

ah64pilot

Are those rockers gold or purple in color? What heads do you have? What size pushrods...

You need to give more information when you ask a question like this.

sxsleeper

They're not Gold or Purple but just steel. I have the E heads and I believe 5/16" push rods.

ah64pilot

Ok, we need a little clarification here. Are these rockers mounted on a stud that is screwed into the head? These would be stud mount rockers.

Shaft mount rockers look like this:

ah64pilot

What I think you have is the Comp Cams kit. Do you have guide plates that are bolted to the head underneath the studs that the rockers mount on? It should.

Have you ever checked your valvetrain geometry? It could be that your pushrods are a little too short or even too long. Do you know how to check it?

sxsleeper

ah64pilot;
Sorry I started this thread and had to walk away! My wife is sick and had to help her out with some things. Anyway, i'm here now.
The rockers are in sets of two, coupled together with a shaft. Under the hex bolts are a stud. Above each push rod is another hex bolt for the adjustment and locking it.
I am not experienced enough to check the geometry or at least to know how. I do know that the geometry for what I have going on is not not working t my favor. I have trusted Mondello's recomendations and finding out the don't tell you the half of what you need to know. I told Lynn I had stock E heads and wanted to keep it stock appearing. That's getting to be a real chalenge with these rockers!
Anyway, they told us to take rockers to 0 lash and then turn them 3/4 of turn and tighten them. It hasn't been that easy and they never mentioned checking the push rod clearance. Were do I need to go from here?

therobski

These could be older Harland Sharp rockers, they made pedestal rockers, two per shaft. Look up their website to identify. If so I wish I had them.

sxsleeper

I looked at Harland, can't find mine. took a pic and will try to post.

sxsleeper

Here's acouple of pics. One shows how push rod is touching on bottom side.


[attach][attach]50652

[/attach][/attach]

Rickman48

Something isn't Kosher there, as is true with many of Mondello's 'high performance' parts.
Having no manufacturer's marks is a sure sign of 'offshore junk' made incorrectly!
Put it back together, stock, and frame the rockers as a mistake - Mondello will now avoid you like the plague.
Have you not read all the warnings about them???

ah64pilot

sx, first off read this thread:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-mondello.html

Now, on to your problem. Can you take a picture of the top of the valve as the roller tip is hitting the valve? That is how you look to see if you have proper geometry. The roller tip should be in the center of the valve stem as much as possible. Let's start there before we get into other stuff.

Steve

ah64pilot

These are what Mondello copied and are trying to produce. The problem is they are cheaply made and probably do not fit right...but I bet you paid a pretty penny for them.

This is what you should get if you have the money...they are great rockers:
http://harlandsharp.com/amc_jeep_olds.htm

sxsleeper

Ya, I think I paid over $450.
However, they do seem to fit pretty good and simple to install. The rest however has not been that easy.

ah64pilot

Take a pic of the valve stem tip so I can see where the roller is on it. That'll tell you whether your pushrods are long enough or not.

Rickman48

I've seen the junk roller rockers break the roller shaft, the roller falls out and the frame contact the retainer.
Then the keepers fall out, and the valve falls through, creating immeasurable carnage!
I'd not take the chance, on any motor!

ah64pilot

You mean like these from Mondello:

Fakser

I bet those are cat-pep brand I was in there a couple months ago and seen a bunch of cat-pep boxes. Anyhow here is the installation guide from their website they only do wholesale online. Hope it helps

Fakser

http://www.catpep.com/installation/r...ountrocker.htm

forgot the link

sxsleeper

Well, that thread makes me want to puke! I just bought and installed new pistons, rings, lifters, and rockers from them! I've already found 4 lifters no good and having problems with the rockers. Wish I would have read this before I put my motor together! Now what?
I am now going to be taking my intake off and will be removing heads to bore out holes for push rods. Adjusting rockers may be small issue at this point!

Thanks for the help I've received so far!
Dale

ah64pilot

Wait, don't yank the heads just yet. Looking at your picture again it seems to me that your problem is simply a geometry problem. I really would like you to take a picture of the roller tip on the top of the valve stem.

Looking at the angle that the push-rod hits the rocker arm it seems like your push-rods aren't long enough. And you don't need to bore heads for 5/16" push-rods...you are just masking a problem. Here's a guide to show you what I'm talking about:

ah64pilot

SX, I just thought about something...what heads are those?

stlbluesbrother

Hey Steve, I'm fairly certain Dale has stock E heads if I recall correctly when I met him in Des Moines.

ah64pilot

Ok, if they're E heads then it's probably just a geometry problem. He may just need longer push-rods but I'd like to see a pic of the valve stem tip and rocker first.

firefrost gold

we never got the ratio the rockers are if they are longer than stock he still might have to drill or bore heads I know on a pontiac going from 1.5 to 1.65 you have to open up the head

sxsleeper

Sorry I had to leave the thread last night. Had to get to bed so I can force myself to go to work the next day! Ugh!
So, I do have stock E-heads. Rollers are working on center 1/3 of valve stem. I'll post pics.
I think I understand the geometry issue. I pulled one set of rockers off and measured the push rods. They measure 9 11/16th" The stock ones I took out are 9 9/16th; I'm a carpenter, so those are a carpenters measurements! Anyway, they are longer than I had but probably still not long enough. I am going to be taking intake off, so next time I'll be adjusting with intake off so I can see cam as I adjust, but I still will have to know what to do at the time.
Dale

rockers 005.jpg
rockers 006.jpg
rockers 007.jpg

ihengineer76

Could you post a picture from the side where the rocker meets the pushrod? From the first pictures, it looks like the adjusters are turned fairly far down in the rockers. I'm not really familiar with those particular rockers, but do the shafts lock down on the studs when you tighten the hex socket bolts?

sxsleeper

Mondello told me to take them to zero lash, then turn 3/4 more and lock them. That didn't work that well!

rockers 003.jpg

rockers 009.jpg

rockers 010.jpg

ihengineer76

From these pictures, it really looks like your pushrods are too short. Your rocker looks like it is at correct height with respect to your valve. You may need to buy an adjustable one (not from Mondello!) and see what length you need. Then you know what length to buy and aren't guessing if another length will be right. If you need a little guidance on using an adjustable pushrod, we will be more than willing to give you a little helpful direction.

sxsleeper

I can get ahold of an adjustable push rod. Does that mean buying a custom push rods?

dc2x4drvr

I run the purple shaft rockers, and like them.
Please tell us exactly how you're setting lifter preload. With stock heads, unless your block has been decked the stock length pushrods might be ok. Since the pushrods are 'captured' in the lifter cup you don't need guide plates.
Check on the web for "setting lifter preload" and let us know. And please stay away from Lynn.
If you decide you need different pushrods call Smith Bros.

ihengineer76

No, they should be available in a number of lengths. I know Smith brothers offers them in .050 increments in one piece form. Just do a search on this site or just google them when you find the length you need. You could also put a wanted post here and one of the guys may have the ones you need for probably less than you will find them on the net. Olds guys like to help Olds guys!

sxsleeper

Thanks for the tips. I need the help! Building a house is a whole lot easier for me!

ah64pilot

SX, if you get a measurement with an adjustable pushrod please let us know. I'd like to see what you come up with. I'm thinking you need a 9.8" or 9.9" push-rod.

gearheads78

I hope I am not going too basic here but you are setting each one on the cams base circle right?

sxsleeper

We already had the intake on when we set preload, so no visual on cam. The first time we brought pistons up to top dead center and the adjusted to zero lash, then gave 3/4 turn more and tightened. We did one complete, then the other. The last time, if I remember right, we turned motor over by hand until the number one intake just started to open, took it to zero lash and turned 3/4 turn more and tightened. then we turned in over until the exhaust started to open and repeated zero lash. Then we continued in fireing order.

The third time we took valve covers off, we found two lifters that were not pumping up and two that were questionable. Lynn at Mondello had us go to zero lash and then see if they pumped up. They didn't! He now sent me a new set of Crane lifters. He really didn't give me any hasle about it either. He said he thought I still have correct length push rods. (9 11/16).
Not sure what the 9.8 & 9.9 mean in length? He said he didn't think the little the push rods were touching in the heads would matter???
If I have to hone heads out, what's a good way?
So, I'll be taking intake off again and replacing lifters, and I'll adjust lifters this time with cam exposed.

sxsleeper

For those who have not seen, this what I'm working on.
70 SX W32
My brother owned it for 12 yrs and now I've had it for 13!

SX repaint 020.jpg
Fall Cutlass 008_edited.jpg

This a show I went to in Byron, Ill. and Joe Mondello picked our car as the Best of show! He was a really nice guy! I have pics of me with him, but not on my lap top.

70SX (3).jpg

ah64pilot

I am scared to give you anymore advice. First off, your lash procedure is dead wrong so how do you know if your lifters aren't pumping up? I bet they can't pump up because you are setting the lash with the lifter plunger at the bottom of the lifter, which is why your pushrods look too short.

Secondly, Lynn is retarded for telling you the pushrods rubbing in the head is ok. Have you ever seen what a binding / rubbing pushrod does? It wears a flat spot, becomes weak, and bends...and most often it eats a cam lobe.

Lastly, I will give you the proper procedure for setting valve lash but I am done here. We have already told you that you do not need to clearance your heads for 5/16" pushrods. You have a geometry problem or you are setting your lash improperly. If you decline to heed the advice of the experience before you then there is nothing more that I can do. I cannot and will not help someone that doesn't listen.

From where you are now:

You don't need to pump the lifters up at all. Take all of the preload out of the system...basically take the rockers off although you don't ACTUALLY take them off. Get some space between the pushrod and the rocker so that you can jiggle the pushrod between the lifter cup and the rocker.

Once you've gotten all of the preload out of it, follow the procedure I gave you and twist the pushrod while you tighten down the adjuster. AS SOON AS you feel DRAG on the pushrod, try again to jiggle the pushrod between the lifter cup and the rocker...it should not jiggle, but it still should NOT be TIGHT. That is zero lash. Tighten the adjuster 3/4 turn more and lock it down with the tensioner nut. That is it.

Proper procedure for a hydraulic cam is:

1. ADJUSTING INTAKE:

Turn the engine over in the direction of running rotation until the exhaust lifter / pushrod begins to move upward. You can now adjust the intake valve of that same cylinder and be assured you are on the 'base cirle' of the intake lobe.

Tighten the adjusting nut until all the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. By lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, you will feel a point at which there will be a slight resistance. At that point, you have taken all the excess slack out of the pushrod. You are now at "zero lash". Turn the adjusting nut 3/4 turn more. This will give you the ideal pre-load of the rocker arm, pushrod, and lifter. Following this procedure, adjust all intake valves.

REPEAT 8 TIMES

2. ADJUSTING EXHAUST:

Turn the engine over in the direction of running rotation until the intake lifter / pushrod moves all the way up. Rotate past maximum lift, approximately 1/2 o 2/3 of the way back down. You can now adjust the exhaust valve of that same cylinder and be assured you are on the 'base cirle' of the exhaust lobe.

Tighten the adjusting nut until all the slack is taken out of the rocker arm and pushrod. By lightly turning the pushrod with your fingers as you tighten the adjusting nut, you will feel a point at which there will be a slight resistance. At that point, you have taken all the excess slack out of the pushrod. You are now at "zero lash". Turn the adjusting nut 3/4 turn more. This will give you the ideal pre-load of the rocker arm, pushrod, and lifter. Following this procedure, adjust all exhaust valves.

REPEAT 8 TIMES

sxsleeper

[QUOTE=ah64pilot;441949]I am scared to give you anymore advice. First off, your lash procedure is dead wrong so how do you know if your lifters aren't pumping up? I bet they can't pump up because you are setting the lash with the lifter plunger at the bottom of the lifter, which is why your pushrods look too short.

Secondly, Lynn is retarded for telling you the pushrods rubbing in the head is ok. Have you ever seen what a binding / rubbing pushrod does? It wears a flat spot, becomes weak, and bends...and most often it eats a cam lobe."


ah64pilot
I'm sorry if I've been misunderstood! I greatly appreciate the advice I've recieved here and value more than what I received from Mondello for sure! Please remember, I did not know how to do any of this, and had my son do this why I laid on the floor turning the engine over for him. I completely agree with you about the push rods! Common sense should tell a person that's not right. Just relateing what Lynn told me when I asked him if they sent me right length push rods.
I am going to follow advice given here, but very limited with my time I am able to work on motor, so slow on applying what I'm told.

ah64pilot

You're alright Dave...just take your time and make sure you do it, or trust your son to do it properly. Did you already take the intake off? If not you don't need to...just look at the pushrods to determine when the valve is opening or closing.

If you did pull off the intake, send a pic of the lifters so I can verify my theory that the plunger is at the bottom of the lifter. Hope it all goes well, and I'm sorry if I was harsh with my words...we just have another resident here that doesn't take advice but asks it all the time. I was having flashbacks! lol!

Steve

gearheads78

Steves advise on setting preload is dead on. You have been doing it completely wrong so your valves are way out of adjustment. If you set the valves right it may not even have a rubbing problem. Let us know how it goes.

If you do have to grind on the heads you need to remove the from the motor. As careful you can be one piece of grinded metal ends up in the motor and it can destroy it.