I don't want to stir up the pot with a political discussion; however, this needs to be posted.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090619/...h_for_clunkers

If it passes every Joe with a beater that is rusted out with a blown engine and a rat infested interior will think it is worth $4500.

 

While I have a big problem with this tax-subsidized giveaway, you MIGHT want to actually read the text of the bill. It only applies to 1984 model year and NEWER cars. The car in question MUST have been registered and insured by the current owner for the last year. The whole deal only lasts three months (Oct-Dec this year). There is also a graduated value ($3500 - $4500) depending on the mileage of the new vehicle being bought.

The reality is, does someone still driving a 1985 Delta 88 beater really have the coin (or credit rating) necessary to buy a $25,000 new car, even with the $4500 handout?

 

I agree Joe. The logic behind it seems flawed. I was searching for some info on it. Here is a good website:

http://www.edmunds.com/industry-car-...-clunkers.html

 

It's too bad they did not restrict it to the purchase of Ford, GM and Chrysler manufactured vehicles.

Henry

 

im thinking of trading in the '04 Acura RSX we have on a new TSX.we only owe 5k on the RSX.

Acura dealership told me they've heard nothing yet from Honda authorizing this,and they are getting swamped with calls from people wanting to trade in their cars.

i filed a chapter 7 bk that was discharged in March '06,and now have a credit score over 680.

i was able to get this RSX 5 months after my bankruptcy ,the loan is 4.5%.

a bankruptcy hurting your credit is an urban legend,a total myth.

 

Any talk of this being detrimental to our hobby, let alone "saying goodbye" to it is a gross exaggeration, and quite "Chicken Little".
This program seems to be passed around like a doomsday message, and it simply doesn't have much teeth.

 

True, I might have over reacted. Plus, like Joe said:

I didn't know this until I read up on the bill about an hour ago. I guess J-Chicago might be out a few mid 80s Delta 88s though. Let's also hope there aren't many 442s or Custom Cruisers crushed.

 

how true.

 

This does beg the question, is it better for the economy to buy a Chevy built in Mexico or a Honda built in Ohio.

 

But then ask where does the profit and market share go?

I would choose the Chevy, also because i am a true red-blooded American...
I love my country, but I hate what is happening to it...

 

I have been thinking about a newer pickup, Maybe I will trade the 90 Chevy and get something better. What the heck, if the feds want to help me with it, why not! They have no problem taking my money, Hey! I just had a thought,IT IS MY MONEY!

 

Good question by Joe.

Rob, I wouldn't be concerned about "market share" as such. Just a term that statisticians use to make us think they're earning their pay.

But where do the profits go is certainly a pertinent question, and part of the consideration of which to buy.
But what may be of larger impact is the associated supplier (or "trickle-down") employment and $$. That could easily outweigh the loss in profit. And that would certain tilt the favor toward a Honda built in the USA.

 

Utilizing the clunker program, could I trade in my 65' Olds F-85 ?

 

Here's some good info

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...NEWS/906199991

 

Why would you want to and no...only 84 up.

 

not to hail chevy in a place like that but that is exactly what I would like to have. Like you've been reading, us old delta owners can't afford a new car but I would prefer the 88-98 chevy to any other truck probably. Just my thoughts. Even though post 1984 doesn't seem great to you guys now the younger generations will be seeing these cars as classics in the coming decades so limited parts availability will be a problem down the road and when they are. Also can someone tell me, j and any other 80's delta fans why there is such a high volume of bashing this week? Is that the pinnacle of undesirable oldsmobiles? what about firenzas or cieras? (to all the owners of firenzas and cutlass cieras I appologize for the reference)

 

But (and at the risk of getting mired in a political discussion) is this a jobs creation/retention program or a source of additional corporate profits. I'm not seeing how using my tax dollars to subsidize the cost of a GM car built by Mexican workers is better than using my tax dollars to subsidize the cost of a Honda car built by workers in Ohio.

 

We're flushing 4.5 billion dollars down the crapper on this program.
Why is it a waste?
Because 90% of the beaters that get traded in under this program will get recycled within a few years anyway because when they break they are not worth repair.
Heck, here in New England, rust takes 99% of all old vehicles for free.

 

What I don't understand is what about the trade in value or resale value of the car / truck? From that I understand is that you turn in our used car / truck (example 10 year old 98 chevy 4X4 PU Ext Cab worth more than $4,500 - NADA Clean Retail Value = $5,800 ) regardless of the value and get no trade in other than the $4,500 voucher, and then they have it crushed. Am I missing something because I would loss $1,300 on that deal. I would want a fair bit more than the value of my vehicle as an incentive or why get rid of it. If this is the case the only vehicle owners this will motivate is if the vehicle is worth quite a bit less that $4,500 to start with. That cuts the playing field down a bit.

Am I missing something?

Doug

 

NADA is a joke.

go to a fleet sale,and youll know what i mean.

your trade in is only worth what the salesman can try to gouge you for.

 

I agree with you but fortunately the bill as passed has been cut back to merely $1 billion. The program will only run from Oct to Dec this year, though Diane Feinstein is already pushing for an encore next year. Your tax dollars at work. The good news is that this only applies to 1984 model year and newer. The bad news is that covers B-bodies, G-bodies, 80s and 90s pickups, most 200-4Rs, all TBI vehicles - exactly the material I need. The bill requires that the engine be destroyed, but the rest of the vehicle can be parted out.

I can only hope that most folks will be trading in SUVs and minivans under this tax-subsidized program.

 

Does that mean our tax dollars are buying 3.8L V6's for $4500?
What a waste.

 

I agree this may be not worth getting too worked up about, but I for one would suggest we continue to be quite vigilant AND active in defense of our hobby (I assume most of us already are). The whole "green" orientation may paint a target on our backs soon enough. The new cars of any "muscle" will soon be gone and a friend of mine in CA was surprised when a small group of protesters showed up at his local cruise in!! Ridiculous.

 

Wasnt that what was used to power the grand nationals? obviously worked over, but H#** that was one bad mother of a car, even today. You ask me this whole deal is a waste, but any more said would probably spark another heated political discussion. All I can say is remember who is doing this, and who OWNS the economy right now, come mid terms, and in 2012.

 

This is a non-issue to me what so ever. I have my '81 Delta, '93 Cadillac Deville, and a '95 GMC Sierra. Nothing out there I need.

 

Sorry, but to me that's a self-centered attitude. First, the money DOES come out of your pocket. Second, your 93 and 95 are directly affected in terms of parts availability (not to mention that parts for your 81 are common with those in cars that are covered), and finally, even if you are not directly affected it still is a problem for others in the hobby. Sorry, but taking a "not my problem" attitude does not help the hobby.

"If we do not hang together, we will all hang separately"

 

Make the time to write your congressmen and women. They all want to get re-elected and many of them want to make this their career for life. If enough people write letters they will have to think twice about the issues they're voting on and how that may affect their re-election. We do have to stick together and even though we're all busy with living our lives we must make the time to try and influence our representatives in reguard to our hobby and anything else that's important to us. My 2 cents. John

 

My 10 cents (two cents adjusted for inflation) worth. This "clunker bill" is more political than actually functional. The restrictions on what and who is eligible for the $4,500 max amount almost makes it a ruse. There will be no "clunker" race to the money window.

The idea this bill, or any extension thereof, will kill the hobby is almost ridiculous. If anything is likely to kill the vintage car hobby it will be the mostly "junk", too costly to maintain, problematic, uninspired styling cars produced by the Big 3 from around 1980 up. Realistically, the hobby began dying with the death of the true muscle cars and the end of their era, along with the "car era" social connections that began disappearing around the same time. Then there is the distinct possibility that twenty years from now one might be hard pressed to find multiple grades of gasoline commonly available, which will certainly not do the hobby any service.

 

Didn't mean to come off like that. I do think the program is stupid and a waste of our tax dollars. The thing is that most people that have vehicles available for the credit, can't afford to buy a new car or truck anyway. My Caddy and GMC would qualify for the credit, but there is no way I could afford payments and insurance on a new car. Besides I already have a high mpg vehicle. 2004 Harley Softail. High 30s city, and high 40s highway. Half of my annual miles is done on the bike. The truck is only used when I need a truck. The rest of my miles are split between the Caddy and the Olds,depending on my mood.

 

Politicians always screw things up unintentionally. I live right on the edge of the 'hood, and it's clear that this bill would create a disparate impact on the disadvantaged youths around me.

Why, it could practically eliminate the supply of mid-80s GM sedans out there, leading to loss of status and income for those "small business owners" who can't find one to paint electric green and equip with 24" rims.

Are they supposed to do business out of an Accord? A Town & Country?

 

There was a reference to this being a step in the direction of more government influence on what we drive, I agree. There were a few references to this not affecting our hobby, I disagree. It is a small step in a direction we do not want to be going. Regardless of the benefit of getting rid of 80's junk that should not be on the road, regardless of the "benefit" received from more people driving more fuel efficient vehicles, regardless of any other consideration, I don't think we need it.

 

I agree 100%. The government shouldn't give Detroit another hand out in the form of an incentive to buy newer cars. In addition, every mid 80s B body, Cutlass, and Custom Cruiser that is crushed is one less car available for enthusiasts. I value 80s and 90s Oldsmobiles just as much as I value 60s and 70s Oldsmobiles. They are all Olds and there will NEVER been anymore than there already are.

 

If anyone has any info on job openings for the salvage operation, let me know. I'll gladly get a government check and nonchallantly invest it in an old iron personal private salvage yard.

 

You could check ohare towing I was watching wrecked on hulu the other day It sounds like they do salvage runs(or deliver wrecks to salvage yards). You could build some solid contacts and relationships that way. I don't think you would need a cdl for the equipment they run down there either. Copart might be another place to look.

 

Good luck on that idea. Too many existing laws in most places to get away with it. You'd have to get far out in the boonies so no one could easily find your treasure trove of vintage iron or you'd end up being sited for something every time you turned around, or worse having to crunch them.

To get away with what you suggest, an acquaintance of mine leased an old stone quarry a few years ago. The old quarry is about 20 miles from anything and he keeps his supply of sixties Olds parts cars in the bottom of it. They cannot be seen from any road and it would take a low flying helicopter to see from the air it was a bunch of old cars. The old quarry drains well and is in a generally dry low humidity climate so rust isn't a major issue. Since weeds don't do well on solid rock no rust issues from them either. Rattle snakes are a minor problem though.