It just keeps getting better.


Get Ready for Freeways That Ban Human Drivers

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...s-off-the-road

 

I don't think so.

MY point is that the kind of class you're talking about has not been a part of any high school curriculum now or ever. I went to high school in the 1970s, and there we no such classes in my curriculum. There were none like this when my kids were in high school a generation later.

This so-called wonderful civics class that would teach teenagers how to function in society has largely existed in people's minds and nowhere else.

 

So now I'm a liar, or at least hallucinating?

The fact that YOUR school system didn't off it doesn't mean that it didn't exist. My memory isn't THAT bad yet.

 

I wouldn't use such harsh language. What I'm saying is that you're pining for a past that didn't exist now or then for many people.

 

I was in high school early 70s and not only did we have a required Civics course, there was also a Civics Club whose members were eligible for both Ruritan and Civitan scholarships.


But we in the hinterlands of Southside Vajenya are nothing but backward hicks anyway, are we?

 

As opposed to a dystopian future that we'll have forced upon us?


"Animal Farm" and "1984" are closer upon us than we think... ya better read 'em before "Fahrenheit 451" becomes reality!

 

That seems like pretty harsh language to me. Also, it's incorrect.

 

It's "aren't we," not "are we," and the answer is apparently yes.

 

Amen! I suggested the autonomous-only roads a few months ago. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The V2V connectivity is next, and as noted in the article, people are already suggesting cash incentives to get people to buy a new car.

That worked SO well with Cash for Clunkers... $3B wasted.

 

Off yer meds again, Jaunty? I'll grant you one thing- you are undeniably consistent.


Go sit on a Gila monster, unless you can find a convenient Western Diamondback...

 

I think the trouble is that Jaunty is already sitting on a saguaro cactus this morning.

- Eric

 

You are right. But I will stick by my original point, and that is that a "Civics" class was by no means universal back in the day. So many people, like myself for example, had to learn life's lessons by living life.

 

Saguaro cactus are not found in New Mexico.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Saguaro

 

Well, whaddaya know?

- Eric

 

Worm fodder in the brain. I had civic classes when i was in school. Oh wait a minute Kansas is the butt of every joke in the movies. That must explain why we had civics classes. I like the ideal that was mentioned in this thread of you getting on the back of a diamondback and rotate on a cactus. I think you words were ever taught in school. Sorry Joe i just think this guy is reaching with some off these baseless post.He must be really bored.Maybe he ran out of meds.

 

Back in the early 60's I had a "civics" in high school in north Atlanta, I remember it being more about "How government functions" [If it does] than any practical day to day need to know stuff.

But there was this girl sitting a few rows to the side of my desk that was built like a bug eyed Sprite. Sorry that's all I can remember.........it was high school and my mind wandered often.

 

If you're going to insult me, at least think up a new way to do it.

 

I had civics and 'govt ' in jr high and high, from 9th-12th (9 was last year jr high for us, we too big)

this would be 1978-1982ish

and I saw my first real CiViC then to, a 78 I think with a 900cc motor. the first UTV/side by side!

 

LOL what class did you have? Drama self taught. I also was in school in the 1970's and know for a fact there was civics in the school systems in Kansas. I bet you didn't google the other not true statement you made about being forced to obtain a debit card. I challenge anyone to check this out and google it. You are just plain mistaken. Maybe you are having altered memory problems.

 

It wasn't a insult it was concern that you are having a possible problem.

 

I don't remember learning about loans and interest in high school -- because they taught that to us in the 7th grade.

One requirement of my high school civics class was to attend a court trial (on my own -- not a class trip, no chaperone!). A worker was suing his employer and the manufacturer of the large stamping press he operated, because it had inconveniently removed his thumb. Under cross examination he admitted that he had intentionally defeated the machine's safety interlocks so that he could operate it faster.

Case closed, right? I left when the jury went to deliberate, not knowing how long it would take. The next day I called the lawyer for the defense to learn the verdict. He told me they lost and the jury awarded the worker a 6-digit compensation for his missing digit.

Best civics lesson ever: Life, and the courts, ain't fair.

 

So how does an automated braking system know how slippery the pavement is? If people let their guard down (as they will), knowing the automated system's got their back, then that system better get it right. If the surface is more slippery than the system thinks, you'll hit something. The only way the auto manufacturer's can cover this possibility is to make the automated braking much more conservative than it needs to be. So then you've got your car braking for you far more often then it really needs to.

As an engineer in a litigious society, I just don't see how all this automation will work. The auto manufactures will be damned if they do and damned if they don't. They'll be sued out of existence, much like private aviation was in the '80s and '90s.

 

The same way a driver does - by sensing the rate of deceleration and wheel lockup. ABS has been doing that for decades.

AMEN! There are two very important issues here. First, once you have autonomy, drivers will completely disengage. We've already seen that with the stupid antics that Tesla drivers have posted on You Tube. At that point, you might as well not even let the driver take control, as they won't have situational awareness and are more likely to make the situation worse. Second, as you correctly point out, validation and verification of the software and algorithms is critical, as is stress testing of every possible situation and branch of the software. The software industry is big on code reuse. Unfortunately, that can hide flaws. In the aerospace industry, we like to point out the failure of the first flight of the Ariane 5 launch vehicle. The designers reused the guidance software from the smaller Ariane 4. Due to configuration differences, there were subroutines in the code that didn't apply. Rather than delete them, the software engineers determined that those subroutines would never be activated in the new rocket. Guess what?




Also very true. Don't expect any insurance cost savings from these "safer" vehicles.

 

Joe beat me to the opinion of the automated braking would work in conjunction w/abs. I don't think that automated cars are compatible with self driven based on the way people drive, there are a lot of idiots on the road.

 

But ABS is designed to keep the wheels from locking up AFTER the brakes have been applied (which may or may not stop the car quicker).

The new automated braking system has to first predict WHEN to apply the brakes. For this it needs to know how slippery the road is. Of course, a human driver has to make the same judgment with every stop, but he has a few more senses at his disposal than the car's computer does.

 

Even George Jet-son drove his flying car. This just seems like a way to do another take away. Notice all your driving privileges have been revoked by Uncle Sam. Another way to raise cost of drivers who refuse change when government try's to stack the deck. I will never own nor would i get in one of these type cars that require no driver. There will be no lives saved.

 

That IMO would be the EASIEST part of the problem to solve. especially with the resolution of the encoders on each wheel (wheel sensors)

 

I suspect that road surface friction could be constantly monitored by fairly sophisticated software using inputs from each wheel speed sensor and a set of accelerometers, in much the same way that you can feel how slippery the road is yourself while you drive.

Since driving in a straight line at a single speed might mask a road's slipperiness, the computer may need to micro-apply the brakes to one wheel from time to time to keep itself apprised.

- Eric

 

I'm less concerned about being able to discern road friction (or other factors). My concern is fault tolerance. In the space world, safety critical systems are typically two fault tolerant. That means that at least two failures of hardware or software are required before a catastrophic failure occurs. Where the systems deal with the general public (such as on commercial airliners), the systems are often three fault tolerant (for example, most airliners have four separate hydraulic systems). Will automakers really incorporate that level of fault tolerance? And how, exactly, does the system monitor fault tolerance? How does it react to it? Will people become pissed when their expensive new car won't go because the computer detects a fault (rightly or wrongly)? This isn't just a CHECK ENGINE light, this is a safety critical system that can cause serious injury or death if it doesn't work properly. Dot-com-ers like Elon wave this off. Clearly SpaceX has fault tolerance issues.

 

I remember the first time I rode this at the airport, I think in 1995. I was amazed by how it was so advanced and was so effortless. Yes, I know autonomous highway vehicles are a whole different ballgame...but I see it as an exciting place in time.

I can understand some of the "sky is falling" mentality on the muscle cars, but I would assume when full autonomous comes someday, it will probably be reserved for certain highways only. There won't be an end to a driver driving their own vehicle for a long time. The insurance companies won't let that happen.

 

As predicted by Rush in Red Barchetta back in 1981...

 

It may not be by driverless vehicles, but it seems that human-less package delivery IS in the offing.


UPS launches U.S. drone test flights for urgent medical deliveries

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ups-launc...4--sector.html


If this is successful, it's a short hop to all package delivery taking place without humans. One way or the other, humans lose jobs.

 

What does this post and several others you have posted have to do with cars. It is like you are hedging on political and non car post.

 

Did someone die and leave you in charge?

It continues the theme that has been part this thread right from the start. If you don't like it, don't read it.

 

My Bad i thought this was a car forum.Flying Drones yeah i can see that as car related. Actually no i don't. In charge. No not me i have no delete button. Maybe the drone should fly you some Meds as this comment has to do with your post subject.My thought is where is my Jetson car at?Now to me that is on topic of this forum. When will we get flying cars to relieve traffic congestion.After all flying cars must be safer than land cars.Experts have said for years flying is safer than driving on land. I would want my car to have a canopy like George Jetson. Big clear Dome so when i fly by i can give the drones the finger.

 

Geez louise people... grow up.

 

I can just picture the friendly skies with drones. There will be a new hunting season to thin the flocks...