Freddy B

I have tried to figure this problem out and don’t were to gonow. I recently painted the engine and brackets and now the alternator, powersteering and balancer pullies don’t align properly with each other. When thebelts are installed they are not properly aligned. The car is a 71 cutlasssupreme a/c car with an olds 455 bb so the alternator is on the driver side. Ihave checked the power steering pump spacer and it is installed. The p/s pulleygets more offline when the pump is rotated towards the alternator. I installed newbelts, saginaw pump and new pulley from the parts place. Everything wasaligned before painting the engine and brackets. I have attached a few picturesso you can see my issue. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Freddy B

I ran the engine when I reinstalled the parts. The engine would run but it slowly died after making a squilling noise and the belt was twisted after the engine shut off.

sammy

Attaching myself...I am having the same problem, only it has not twisted the belt...maybe missing a bolt on the power steering ....look in thru the ps pulley and make sure they are all there and tight...

oldcutlass

Take it apart and see why it's crooked. It looks like an issue with the power steering only.

2blu442

There are two spacers for the power steering pump. One where it attaches to the timing tab bolt, and a second on the side of the motor block down below the exhaust manifold. Here's an old thread where this was being discussed and I attached photos that might help. Also, I've not found it yet but I believe it was Eric (MDchanic) that posted a photo of the two spacers.
John

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-brackets.html

J-(Chicago)

There is a 5/8" spacer that goes behind the pwr str bracket, and another that goes behind the bracket on the driver's side by the block.

Follow the link from 2blu442

midrange

I had this very same problem, even twisted the belt completely sideways while I was driving.
The only way I could get the alignment correct was to pry on the power steering pulley itself (with the alternator belt removed) to keep it straight when tightening the bolts.

MDchanic

It looks to me like the spacer that goes on the front-facing bolt is missing.

Here's the thread with the dimensions.

Here is the picture that Joe posted on that thread:

wel186.jpg
The one you're missing is numbered 404353.

Also note the three nuts or bolts that hold the pump in position on the brackets, al of which must be loosened for belt adjustment, then tightened again afterward.

- Eric

Octania

THREE spacers in the PS pump and bracketry

"One thing Joe forgot to mention- there is a thick washer- same PN as intake / xst bolt washers- between pump body and fwd bracket, on the inboard bolt which resides under the pulley. Easy to lose or overlook.

Consult the Assembly Manual via paper copy or WildAboutCars.com for all the gory details."

post #19 from
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post510532

The Asm. Manual Illustration:
1021_5258_73-455_BRACKETS_P11-PS-Pu.jpg

The close shot of the lower RH part, showing the "manifold washer" [same PN] *between* front bracket and pump body, at the adjusting slot...

1021_5258_73-455_BRACKETS_P14-Pump-.jpg

2blu442

Chris, thank you for pointing out the thick washer as the third spacer. I hadn't paid attention to the washer being extra thick, just put it back on during re-assembly.

John

Freddy B

I see in the assembly manual that their is a bracket on the bottom of the p/s pump that attaches to the side of the block if that is correct I am missing that part. my bracket attaches to the alternator bracket and that bracket is mounted to the 1st bolt on the exhaust manifold. I have on spacer on the top mounting position of the p/s pump, it's about 1" long. How long should both spacer be?

Freddy B

I dont have the bracket that is connected on the driver side of the block, does someone have a picture of the bracket and spacer that goes there.

2blu442

I've got the bracket, but the spacer is likely in a coffee can somewhere. I know there's a post that describes the dimensions of the spacer, did you check the other thread? It also has photographs of the bracket you need.
Send me a PM with your address and I'll come up with a price including the shipping costs.

John

Freddy B

John I looked at the thread but the pump in the photo is the peanut type and has 2 brackets on the back side. The assembly manual shows only 1 bracket, don't know if I have this right which is why I wanted to see a different picture. I did send you a PM.

MDchanic

Did you read the answers to your question in this thread?



The lengths of the spacers are given in the link in my earlier post.

There are several pictures in this thread of the brackets.

What do you mean "peanut type"? All power steering pumps from '68 up to the eighties are identical (some '68s have the reservoir canted forward a bit, but they'll still interchange).

Did I mention: ?

- Eric

Freddy B

Eric,

I saw the spacer size in the thread which says 5/8 but there are 2 different part # 's for them. I have 1 spacer and mine is 1" long just wanted to know if that is the correct lenght.The peanut type is the reference a friend used for the pump in the thread by John.

2blu442

OK, there were two different styles of fluid reservoirs. I don't remember for sure when the squarish one began, maybe 1971? But the one you called a peanut one was used from 1968 to 71ish. Here are pictures of the two styles of reservoirs and one loose bracket that I think you need. There are a couple other differences, the squarish pulley has holes through it so you can use a socket to loosen and tighten the nuts. And there's some holes in the bottom bracket. I think the brackets are still the same as far as bolt holes and mounting locations. But I'll pull that one apart to measure with the loose one. John

PB102042.jpg

PB102043.jpg

PB102044.jpg

Freddy B

John,

Great pictures. I have the square type on the left in your pictures. I only have the front mounting bracket. I don't have the one on the bottom of the pump or the loose bracket.

Fred

2blu442

Whelp, I guess its been a while since I pulled one of these apart. The bracket is very different between the to styles. Check out the photos. John

PB102048.jpg

PB102047.jpg

Freddy B

Yeah, they are different. I am really thinking this is my issue now.

MDchanic

John, what years did you get those from?
I had the impression that those bottom brackets were the same, and that both of those types of pumps had identical external attachments. I have several pumps and bracket sets, and never noticed any differences - next time I'm where they're stored, I'll have to check 'em out.

Thanks.

- Eric

2blu442

Hi Eric
I've got a shelf with power steering pumps on it. Tomorrow I'll see if I can come up with a couple more of these pumps to make sure this one isn't something strange. Since I'm so organized I've no idea which car/motor this pump came off of

John

MDchanic

Ha ha. I know just what you mean.

- Eric

sammy

The more squarish reservoir is on my 72 455 that originally had AC. The " peanut " style is as John has said.
The squarish one has the holes in the pulley,and it was these bolts I noticed on mine that were loose....heck of a place to see when on car. I tightened them and the pulley was more in line...not perfect, but at least not throwing the belt. If the correct bracket is in place, I would argue that it is how the pump assembly is mounted to the link...


Ted

2blu442

The plot thickens!!! I dug out another pump with the squarish reservoir that has the same lower bracket as the peanut shaped one! So, Fred you'll have to look at the photos and try to determine which one you need. Over the years I have had some 403's and a 260, I wonder if one of those had this pump with the different brackets?

PB112050.jpg

PB112051.jpg

PB112052.jpg

PB112054.jpg

PB112053.jpg

sammy

This looks like the similar problem as Fred is having...I am only adding to, not hijacking his thread

Freddy B

Eric,

Sorry it took me so long to reply. I have attached photos of my pump and bracket. I do have a spacer on the lower stud mount for the p/s pump bracket. As you can see in the photos I have the squarish reservoir. The bottom of my bracket does not have the two mounting holes for the lower p/s pump bracket. So I guess I need the one for the other style pump.

MDchanic

You are missing the lower half of the bracket - It's one of the two that John posted here:

PB102047.jpg

I believe that John can send you one, and that should take care of it.

- Eric

2blu442

Fred, yes I have the correct one for you. Please send me a PM or email to complete the transaction.

Ted, your missing a bracket too! The one that goes back and attaches to the front most exhaust manifold bolt. The pumps shown in this thread don't have it either, but this one does. John

P5100720.jpg

MDchanic

John, I'm not sure, but I believe that he has the upper alternator bracket that ties the P/S pump bracket to the exhaust manifold screw, in lieu of the bracket you illustrated - I think your bracket if for Right-alternator, non-A/C cars, but the Left-alternator, A/C-equipped cars were different.



- Eric

2blu442

Hi Eric
Here's the picture I'm looking at. I don't see any bracket attached to the hole on the outboard most bolt hole. I'm thinking Ted (Sammy) is missing something too.

John

Well... I don't know how to pull one of Ted's photos out, but its the red painted engine in his above post.

MDchanic

Yes, you're right, John - I think I can't keep track of who's who.



So, Freddy needs the bottom bracket, and Sammy needs the exhaust manifold connector piece.

And I think Dick needs to throw the ball, and Jane needs to find Puff, no?

- Eric

2blu442

So, Freddy needs the bottom bracket, and Sammy needs the exhaust manifold connector piece.

And I think Dick needs to throw the ball, and Jane needs to find Puff, no?

Freddy B

John

I sent you a PM

Freddy B

First I want to say thnaks to John for the lower P/S bracket. But I still have an issue with the alternator pulley being lined up with the rest I have attached some pictures of it. Does anyone have an idea what could be the problem now. I have the p/s bracket spacers in place all brackets are connected properly but the alternator pulley is off.

mike8162

Looks like you might be missing the spacer for the power steering. There should be a spacer between the bracket and the pump. The adjustment bolt passes through it. I think it is about 3/8th inch thick, one of the pros could maybe chime in on the thickness.

Mike

Freddy B

Mike,

I have the spacers on the p/s brackets it has to be something else. The p/s pulley is aligned. The alternator pulley is off. I just don't know what it could be. If anyone else had this issue can you give me some suggestions

citcapp

Looks to me like you have either:

1. mismatched pulleys the 3-groove pulley on the water pump does not line up with the balancer pulley. The center belt is off line, its a shorter distance so it may look on line but it isn't

2. may be the water pump is the incorrect length. Did you use a matched set of pulleys. Best bet is to go to a wrecking yard and get a matched set of pulleys to match you water pump or buy a set from someone here after you measure your water pump

midrange

Must be an illusion, but in pic #3, it looks like the p/s is still out of alignment, and the alternator is fine.

mike8162

In picture 3 it looks like the power steering pulley is actually forward of its proper plane. I could be wrong it may be the camera angle. The part I'm talking about is listed as #555698 in MDchanic's assembly manual page. They call it a F. Washer but if I remember the thing is thick enough to be called a spacer. The only reason it jumps out at me is I went through this 25 years ago, worked fine I just hated the noise.

Mike