I know there's a potential for "brand bias" here, but I don't want to look stupid (at least not more than usual) when it comes to this seemingly easy--yet widely disputed--issue:

In Sloan's General Motors the aim was to have a "car for every budget" and for people to move "up" from Chevy all the way to Cadillac eventually. That's obvious. And most acknowledge Pontiac as the next rung up from Chevy. But where things get wonky is when you try to make the jump from Pontiac to Cadillac.

Both Oldsmobile and Buick "people" say their brand was above the other, but I've been comparing prices and features and it's almost a dead heat. Sure, the average Buick was more "luxury-oriented," but as anyone who's owned--or wanted--a Ferrari knows, it ain't the leather and air conditioning that makes people pay more for a Ferrari; performance and "pretty" count for more.

Most books actually skirt this issue, which is why it's a pain for me now. That, and the fact that I was never "exposed" to the classic Sloan model; I came of age in the "Ford man" and "Chevy man" era where it didn't matter WHAT the ladder said, they were going with THEIR brand.

CAN it be said that one was truly "over" another? Were they on the same "rung" but on different ladders as Buick was posh and Olds was powerful?

Ugh. I need a drink...

Drew

 

As far as I know, the hierarchy was unambiguous:

Chevy --> Pontiac --> Olds --> Buick --> Cadillac.

Chevy was the bargain choice.
Pontiac was a fancy Chevy.
Buick was a Baby Caddy.
Cadillac was the creme de la creme, competing with Lincoln and Imperial.

Olds was always in the "sweet spot" right in the middle .

- Eric

 

X2, but of course this applies to the 1940s-1960s, not the 80s when every division sold the same, badge-engineered cars. Olds was not only in the middle but was the division that got new technology first (OHV V8, automatic trans, turbocharging, modern FWD, air bags, antilock brakes, etc).

 

80s?

What are these 80s you speak of?



- Eric

 

'Sa matter? Memory going bad as you get older?

 

That's why I found it strange when GM killed Pontiac instead of Buick. Yeah, I know...China. China schmina, they could have offered another brand there and it probably would have done as well.

Now with GM you have a chioce of Bargain, luxury or super luxury. They could have knocked off Buick and introduced Olds into China (Olds had more sales than Buick in its final years) and then if Pontiac went you'd have bargain, upscale, luxury.

 

"Time to get up but I can't move.
What did I do last night?
Am I home? Are these my clothes?
I hope my car's alright.
At least it's Sunday, no it's Monday.
I'd better call in dead.
I might get fired, but I'm so burnt,
I can't get out of bed.

Will I make it through the eighties? ..."

-- Julie Brown

 

Interesting. I always looked a Chevys as the cheap car, Pontiacs as the sports model, Buick as the grandpa's car and Cadillac out of my price range. Olds was the luxury/sports model between the Pontiac and Buick. Of course this was just my understanding growing up around car guys.

 

I have to chim in here....I grew up with the same GM car line "values" as 455man...

 

"Sports model"?

Obviously you guys didn't see all those granny-driven post-type cars that you could find on every street. Or all those Catalinas, Bonnevilles, and Grand Villes. Farthest thing from sporty in the world.

- Eric

 

Chevy-Pontiac-Oldsmobile-Buick-Cadillac

Joe, I have to disagree with you on a few points (I'm sorry!). My son just wrote a paper on this topic.

Cadillac actually designed the V8 before WWII. Their developments were put on hold during the war, then in 1945 they again began to work on their OHV V8, and Ed Cole was one of the designers (later to be GM President). In 1947, Charles Kettering delivered a landmark paper on high compression. At that time, Oldsmobile began to work on their own OHV V8, calling it the Kettering Engine.

With Oldsmbile taking the short cut approach (i.e. copying) the Kettering design, Cadillac realized that both engines would be released in 1949. It was race to be first. Cadillac protested to GM, claiming that Oldsmobile should not be allowed to debut their engine first, especially considering Cadillac designed it years earlier, and had been refining it even before Kettering's involvement. But GM conceded to Oldsmobile, and funded Olds to continue on their V8 design.

Oldsmobile's new engine plant came on line during September 1948, the new Oldsmobile Futuramic 98 line was announced, along with the six-cylinder 76, on November 27,1948, and appeared in Oldsmobile showrooms during December, about a month behind the new Cadillac. So Cadillac was actually first to the showrooms, but even more significant is that Cadillac had actually designed their OHV V8 before WWII.

Oldsmobile's transmission technology was second-to-none. The Hydra-Matic first appeared on the 1940 Oldsmobiles. Oldsmobile was also on the cutting edge in the 50's and 60's as far as transmission technology goes.

Turbocharging was nothing new, but I have to admit it's a bit embarrassing to know Oldsmobile used a Buick engine for their first turbocharged offering. Chevrolet had been designing their own setup independent of Olds, and it appeared on the Corvair.

Ford was first with air bags in 1971, using it on an experimental fleet of cars. The first use of air bags on regular production cars was on the 1973 Chevrolets. Oldsmobile didn't get air bags until 1974.

Anti-lock brakes first appeared on the 1971 Chrysler Imperial. As for GM, it was Cadillac (again) that designed their own ABS system called "Trackmaster", available on the 1971 models.

Not meaning to tear apart Oldsmobile, but my son is really into the history of American automobiles. Just thought I'd clear up a few myths.

 

I agree with the Chevy - Pontiac - Olds - Buick - Cadillac scheme. That was drilled into me when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s. My grandparents on both sides of the family always talked about wanting a Cadillac but never had one. But, they said, they always got the next best thing with their Buicks. I just remember that their big Buicks rode a lot smoother than our family's Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs. Anyway, that order was what my parents always used to say was the pecking order for GM cars.

Randy C.

I know a man who drives a truck.
He's not very smart but he sure can drive.

Another Julie Brown song.....

 

Actually Chevrolet, built the first V8. Even if it was a huge boat anchor. They used it for 2 years 1917 and 1918, and then dropped it in favor of the 4 cylinder.


The Chevrolet Series D V8 is an American, liquid-cooled, 288 cu in (4.7 L) capacity, V8 piston automobile internal combustion engine, designed and built by Chevrolet Motor Car Company in 1917 and General Motors Company's new Chevrolet Division (acquired as part of Chevrolet's 1917 takeover of, and merger into, GM) in 1917 and 1918. It is capable of producing 36 horsepower (26.8 kW) @2700 RPM.

 

Chevy-Pontiac-Olds-Buick-Caddy it is. Thanks for your help in nailing that down.

[For additional fun, see if you can put GMC, Geo, Hummer and Saturn in... ]

Drew

 

Here's how I understood the big three order of merit;
GM: Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, La Salle (while it lasted), Cadillac.
Ford: Ford, Mercury, Edsel (while it lasted), Lincoln.
Chrysler: Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, Imperial.
I think I remember reading somewhere that Cadillac were opposed to the Chevy Caprice as it was too good!. Anyone able to throw some light on this?.
Where would Saturn fit in the line up?. Back in the good old days all American makers made large cars, in Europe gas was always expensive so large cars were the domain of luxury brands like MB, Jaguar, Humber and Rover.
BMW made little 2 stroke powered 3 wheelers (bubble cars) until the '60s and nobody had heard of Japanese cars then, nearly all the automakers were building for their home markets then.

 

Hmmmm... I'd always thought Dodge was at the bottom with Plymouth in the middle (Dodge Dart vs Plymouth Valiant, for instance), but then I'm not a MoPar man...

Wouldn't surprise me.

- Eric

 

In the late 90’s I looked at and test drove some mid eighty's rear drive Caddy's, I couldn't find one in good enough condition in my price range. I ended up buying an 88 Caprice Brougham in excellent condition. It wasn't too far from a Caddy, comfy valour power seats, etc. It was pretty much loaded and gave a beautiful ride. The Caddy's were a bit more comfy but not worth what I would have to pay. The Caprice was rock solid dependable. BTW the Caddy’s had Olds 307’s because their 4100 turned out to be such a piece of junk.

The early eighties rear drive Olds 98’s definitely approached Caddies, A person who attends an area cruise night has a 1980 or 81?. It appeared that the interior was unique to the 98 as it was far more luxurious than other olds of that time and definitely on par with Cadillac, in my opinion better, as Caddy interiors at that time began to look a bit overdone. At that time I also had a beautiful 71 Coupe Deville, The Caprice was my everyday driver.

 

Samething I've always understood it as.
Pontiac's were the better trimmed performance brand over Chevy.
Just like GMC was supposed to be the higher trimmed truck over Chevy's.

This is why Trans Am's usually had better suspension and brake parts in them.
However Chevrolet had/has the Corvette which is still the best bang for the $$$ in America.

Olds and Buick with the Middle of the road brands for luxury.
Neither was known as "Performance" manufacturers but did build a few performance cars.
Cadillac was the king of the hill with luxury.