Dead Reckon

Alright, I have a 1977 Delta 88, base, crank windows, manual locks, solid bench seat, but it does have AC and a 350. So a lot of people consider these cars "Boats", "Land Yachts", "Lead Sleds", so on, so forth. They also consider them out of place in the modern world, because they do not have the creature comforts of modern cars. However, I have a simple question for them. How much does your car weigh? How many features does your car have that mine doesn't or didn't have optionally?

Mine weighs 3,678lbs, so let's compare that to a popular modern sedan (Too Google!).. Alright, 2009 - present Ford Taurus, curb weight, 4,015lbs... Oh that's painful... Let's see, another car I see a lot of. 1997-2003 Chevy Malibu's.. Ouch, 3,050-3,142lbs. Not much lighter at all, especially considering a lot of these had a four cylinder.

Furthermore, similar "Sporty" cars of the era, take a Camaro, it weighs 2,800-3,400lbs V6 to 350, 1977-1992, 2nd, 2.5nd, and 3rd gen. Cutlass, Monte Carlo, all the G bodies, with a 350 and TH350 weigh 3,300-3,500lbs with a 350 depending on the options. I have four doors, and an absurd mafia approved sized trunk. If it was a Cadillac I'd wonder if Jimmy Hoffa was lost in there.

And another thought, modern cars, they are expensive, most people pay more in car payments than I do in gas. Even when the car is paid off you've spent so much you'll only make it up if you own the car 15-30 years depending on the price. They are also rather complicated to work on, if it doesn't start, you are probably up a certain brown creek without a paddle, and you may have to sell the boat and swim when you get the repair bill. My car, though the plugs, distributor, and a few other things are a PITA to work on, is pretty much simple as it gets. Doesn't start? Has it got power? Fuel? Spark? There are a few more things that could cause it to stop working, but they are very rare.

And one more thought, a modern four cylinder does not put out more than 200HP, pulling a 3,600+ lb car, it won't last very long, it's built to the brim, it's pretty much giving all it has got. My 350 GM Goodwrench crate @ 195HP (Probably less because I'm sure some horses have left the stable or just keeled over in the 20 years it has been in the car) is lazy, it is not even trying to put out that much power. That often means parts last longer, because they are not running at the brink of what they can handle.

Moral of this? Simple, my car weighs a bit less, or a bit more than modern sedans, it's really in the same weight range of a modern sedan, 2,800-4,400lbs. Also, the Dodge Charger with a V8 weighs 4,400lbs. My '86 Custom Cruiser only weighed 4,004lbs, with a 307 iron block engine.

I could add almost any modern feature to my car if I wanted too, modern engine out of a wrecked SUV or truck, 6.2 or 5.3. GPS, radio with weird features like hands free, power everything, heated everything, power trunk, remote start (With a fuel injected engine). It won't handle as good as a lot of modern cars, but I like the somewhat sloppy and tail happy feel my car has. It almost always puts a smile on my face when the car tries to slide. So really, what is the point of owning a new car unless you are just buying an appliance? If that is the point, I'd rather get a low mileage fairly new used car.

I would like to clarify that I am not stating that "Old is better than new", often new cars are safer, but that is all they really have. But to be honest? To hell with safety, it's boring to drive a nanny on wheels! I'm just stating something that has been on my mind for a while. Smiles per gallon, that's my kind of car.

jaunty75

After decades of getting ever longer, wider, and heavier, your car is actually the first of the less "boaty" cars that came before it. GM underwent the "great downsizing" between the '76 and '77 model years for its full-size cars.


1977 Delta 88:

wheelbase: 116 inches
overall length: 217.5 inches
weight (4-door): 3,606 lbs


1976 Delta 88:

wheelbase: 124 inches
overall length: 226.7 inces
weight (4-door): 4,410 lbs


Your car is 8 inches shorter in wheelbase, almost 10 inches shorter in overall length, and about 800 lbs lighter than the last of the true boats.

J-(Chicago)

I agree on both counts.
77-85 delta 88 is pretty much the same thing as a 68-77 cutlass. "muscle car" chassis minus the muscle, but with comfortable seats and bigger ash trays.

MDchanic

Yeah, sorry DeadReckon, but your car is not a boat.

My '73 Delta is about 19 feet long and weighs over 5,000 pounds (as weighed at the local rock yard).

As for the rest of it, yeah, your car is the size and weight of a Cutlass, which is definitely a lighter car, and lighter than most of the "non-tiny" newer cars.

- Eric

oldcutlass

On being a boat..your car is small compared to all of the real land yachts. But, technically your still a boat Captain. I do agree on all of your creature comfort references, cars today have way too much non essential crap in them. I get a kick out of voice controlled stuff, where it takes longer to tell it what to do, than it takes to reach out and turn a ****. I prefer the simplicity of the older cars.

Kennybill

Your car is an anorexic yacht. I have a fleet of "porky pigs." The bigger girls need loving too but only when their cars. I like the 1977/1985 B/C bodies. I would rather have one over a Gbody. Keep the faith. Ken

Professur

Dead ... the B bodies bring one thing to the table that no other cars do .... class. Other cars might have more security features, more power, better handling ... doesn't matter. At their best, they're still the second rate "get from A to B" vehicles ...

Funkwagon455

Stop worrying about what others think or say. If you are comfortable and feel that the car is a respectable representation of your personality, then that is all you need.

navvet

And another thing, I love the smell of my 64 exhaust in the morning!!!!!

dantecl

I love my land barge ('72 delta 88) but nothing drives like my '08 328i. Completely different things.

navvet

If your car takes up two or more pumps at a gas station its a boat. Love to see the looks when I drive my 64 -88 and my car blocks two pumps . The 98 is even better.

Dead Reckon

I tried to use the voice system in someones car. Told it to tell me the weather, just asked it what the current weather was, it got confused and put the radio on some AM religious station. I don't know how that worked out, but it was hilarious.

Really what it comes down to is a lot more ignorant people nowadays. I'm twenty four years old, and I'm little like most of my generation. I have a remarkably "Dumb" phone, I don't wander around with ear buds shoved in, and I don't really text anyone at all. It's not that I care what they think, it's just that it's irritating because, as my father would say, "They don't know their *** from a hole in the ground". People wouldn't know what a fun car was if it ran them over.

Also, I'm rather fond of these B bodies, I plan to get a 9C1 sway bar for the back of my Olds, maybe the front sway bar if it is beefier too. Just putting four new shocks on the car should help it out a lot. Shocks are so worn out that when I crawl in the trunk the car goes into low rider mode. I mean, I weigh 220lbs, but 220lbs isn't THAT much. These cars where some of the best handling sedans of the '80's and late 70's, so, I have no doubt I can make this car a great cruiser.

Simply put, I don't really care what they say, it's just irritating, though I do find it funny when my original and showing its age car gets noticed (And more complements) than the shiny new mustang sitting behind it.

And I agree with y'all that most modern cars are just A to B appliances, but hell a modern Corolla weighs 2,800lbs. Someone care to 'splain why the ecobox cliche-mobile weighs a mere 800lbs less than my monstrosity?

At this rate, if I own this car ten years, it will be lighter than a Corolla. I mean, even the beloved Prius weighs 3,000lbs. Only a few passengers lighter than my car. That is, well, frankly, hilarious. Especially when you consider that the Corolla that existed when my car was new weighed a mere 1,900lbs. The Corolla has gotten fat over the past thirty six years. And I'm willing to bet the original with a stick shift would be way more fun than a modern one. Sure it would be underpowered, but flogging that little four banger to the redline every shift is hilarious in those little old cars.


Fact of the matter is, if I cared about how how many MPG I was getting, I'd get better at driving a stick and get me a early to late 70's Fiat 124 sport spider like my father had, he had a 1973. Sure, again, wasn't fast, but it handled great, and got between 24-34MPG in town, usually the lower end 'cause my father was a bit nuts in that car. We only ever had it on the highway once, 'cause it was a bit ragged, and 55MPH in it was a bit sketchy, but it was still pulling around 40MPG highway. Loved that old car, even when it sat for four years before we sold it, all we did was clean the distributor points, plugs, prime the carb, and hit the key. Fired right up, and it sounded like Satan's lawn mower with the exhaust rusted clean off.

Also, the Fiat was heavy for what it was, weighed a little over 2,000lbs. You could feel it was heavier than it looked, but that made it handle better, and frankly? Who cares? It already weighed so little it felt like someone could carry it off if they wanted too. Also, my father bought the '78 Fiat in 1998, $700, sold it in 2007 for $900, even without inflation, that's a score.

Anyway, that's the end of the rant for now, too be continued, I suppose?

EDIT: Just had to say this navvet, but I try to pull the car forward a little since the cap is at the very back. I'm just waiting for someone to get so close I can't get to the cap so I can make them feel stupid for not realizing how rude they where being.

Koda

You need to get a car 20 years older for the huge boats. My old man's car show buddy has a 56 New Yorker. I think it weighs 8000 lbs.

Cars naturally get bigger as options and power creep in. The Prius packs a heavy battery for the hybrid powerplant. Cars today are all about usable room. Personally, I LIKE having room to work on an engine, but that isn't really efficient most of the time.

Oh, you may want to replace the springs, since they're the ones making the trunk sag when you get in it. Shocks don't resist sag, they stop oscillation. Now, if the car is bouncing like a car on hydraulics, then, yeah, it's shocks.

m371961

I have a theory, (one of many), as the baby boomers get older they will get like our parents, grand parents and appreciate driving something in comfort. A radical racer from the 60s into the 70s doesn't cruise in comfort. Fun, but not a cruiser.
The land yacht captn. say my 65 98 convert anin't a landyacht, but it will be a cruiser.

Killian_Mörder

Many of those luxury extras get powered by comparitively heavy electric motors. Re-inforced unibodies which must comply with current safety standards also add weight, as well as Airbags, catalytic converters, board computers and whatever else used today which didn't exist back then.
Here, this thread should have a bumper song. "I bought me a Chrysler. It's as big as a whale. It's about to set sail"

ThePackRat

Mandates on safety features + all the high-tech gadgets the majority want these days are what's driving up the weight of newer stuff.

Most vehicles are also getting taller ... presumably so people sit a lil' higher (like in a truck/suv) as many people seem to like that, as well as giving cars a better chance in collisions vs trucks/suv's.

While I probably shouldn't "armchair engineer" ...

I just can't see that having a positive effect on overall fuel consumption.

oldstata

Lol I bet it's the same as when you block the only diesel pump

oldcutlass

I resemble that remark as a baby boomer getting older, however my wife and I still like the radical racers. So no 4 door luxo-cruisers will be in our future. Neither will small dogs (no offense to dog owners), wearing plaid shorts, white socks, and loafers, hats with hair, or pulling my pants up to my armpits.

Kennybill

There's nothing like getting dressed up in a lime green leisure suit with the platform shoes and going to lunch at the senior citizens center in one of my 98's. Just saying! Ken

Dead Reckon

Well the way I see it is. If I've got eight cylinders, four barrels, two pipes, two or four doors, the rear wheels are the drive wheels, and I've got a working stereo (I listen to metal, and some rock, mostly metal.), I'm happy. Power everything, even AC is an option, although my AC was updated to R134 in 1998 (Man I was only nine years old back then, strange when you think back like that. Owning something that has existed longer than you have. Oh well, this Oldsmobile will rock like it never has! ), so I'll likely do a leak test and see if it holds, I doubt there is anything major wrong.

Also, I know I need springs soon, they still have some bounce to them, but I don't want to have to change the ball joints yet. I have not seen ball joints with 150k+ miles on them last long before eating tires with new springs. My car has 178k on the body and trans, so, as long as shocks take out about half of the floundering around the car does, I'm happy. Also, side note, trans fluid and filter where changed in 2k3, still shifts butter smooth, I did a few forced down and upshifts driving the Battle Cruiser home, she runs smooth. Needs an oil change, has a minor miss in the engine, and one of the manifolds is loose and ticking. It also has the stereotypical sounds like a cat used as a belt when the steering is full lock noise, power steering pump will get replaced when I start having to feed it fluid, which will probably be in the next year. I'm more worried about readying it for inspection this February though.

So, shocks are a must, exhaust system is alright for now, but by this time next year I'll have dual 2" on it, catless system, some kind of cheap turbo muffler the same shop put on my wagon, sounds great.

Also, if you want to see a quick vid of the car I made, here it is:


Pardon the horrid cheap starter, advance auto remanned unit that came with the car (Found the receipt in the glovebox), my '86 Custom Cruiser with a 307 ate one for breakfast back in Feb '07, so it'll get yanked soon, I don't trust it. Also pardon my inability to reattach an air cleaner lid with one hand, it's a skill I doubt many have.

tru-blue 442

I never saw one of these
with a 350 Chevy in it.
I thought most were 403's.

don71

Sounds like she is doing what she's supposed to do. Start and go..and stop too.!

You got a big car by todays standards, but not quite a boat..OK maybe a boat, but not a land barge, like stated.

I think after you change the shocks she should be pretty stable. The little things I'm sure you'll take of.

These cars can pretty cool, you know, moving people around and all their stuff. We need places for our stuff. Carry on.

MDchanic

Holy cow, you're right - at 3:10, we can see that it's a SBC.

- Eric

ThePackRat

It was actually pretty common to see a 350 SBC in the 77 D88's.

Pretty sure the D88's are the very cars ...

Which played the biggest part in all hell braking loose when people found out there wasn't an Olds motor in there.

J-(Chicago)

It doesn't matter what make engine came in them, when they were all gutless junk.

If you got the diesel olds, you blew a head gasket at 60k.
If you got the olds 350, you cracked the 3A heads at 70 k.
If you got the 3.8 buick, you got T-boned from the car being too slow to cross the street.
If you got the 403, you over revved it and spun a rod bearing, or overheated it to death by 90k
If you got the SBC it would be sucking oil through the valve guides by 80k.

J-(Chicago)

They should have caught hell for selling utter crap for 50% more than its worth lol.

59-59-59

This thread is so frekkin gay.

lazy394

I just had mine out on this perfect 24 degree Sunday arvo, after spending 7 weeks waiting for it to be repaired from its engine fire. Looking splendid in its shiny new paint and freshly polished chrome. Pull into a petrol station and a guy and his son walk past. Son to father, " what is that ?".
Father to son " That my boy is a Land yacht".
Son, "What is a land Yacht?".
Father replies " A Yank Tank " ...The conversation continues beyond earshot.
Yup I love soaking up more than my fair share of the road

Ps Im not gay

Koda

My grandfather once commented that, when Olds owners found out some of them had Chevy engines, that they were probably better off.

Dead Reckon

Well the engine was replaced at 81k miles, back in 1993, so it could've been a Chevy 350 or olds, I know it had 81k miles on it when the engine was yanked and this GM Goodwrench crate was dropped in. I believe the original engine was a Chevy as well, because it has what appears to be the original iron intake, and damn sure the original Q jet on it. That'll get swapped for a Edelbrock EPS or Weiland aluminum intake, with a Holly 4bbl sooner or later. Anyone want a cast iron door stop that probably smells like gasoline?

Not kiddin', those old iron intakes make great door stops until you run your foot into it.

Oh, and Don71, it does start fine, when the advance auto starter doesn't try to murder its self. That starter is coming off soon, like I said, one on my wagon with a 307 got murdered quickly, I am not changing another starter in the middle of February if I can help it.

Lazy394, if they could've seen the station wagon my father had when I was a kid, they'd think us "yanks" where invading. '78 Ford Country Squire, thing was a "Country" mile long, light blue, and the 351M decided to catch fire once. We where bucket brigading water from the creek out back of our house and my father was putting out with a garden hose. My uncle drove that car after my father had left it sitting for two or three years, quart of oil a week, smoked like crazy, never quit running though, he got tired of it because he was paying more for oil and gas than he would to buy another car. That car is also where I got my seething hatred for vinyl seats.

Also, what's the problem with triple 59? How does he have 700 some odd posts with an attitude like that?

These cars had a lot of interesting optional features, like illuminated key locks, tug on the door handle, lights up the key lock with a directional light. Power windows, locks, mirrors, heated rear window, six way adjustable front seats, vacuum operated fuel eco-meter, even had a radio with a digital clock available. Also had an option for "Twilight Sentry" headlights that turned themselves on when it got dark, they had a lot of optional features modern cars outright brag about as if htey are new. They are not new, they where around 36 years ago, and before that even. Unfortunately the only options my car has is the AM/FM radio (Versus just AM), the 350 4bbl (2bbl was standard, 4bbl was an option), and AC. Oh it's also got the "Mist" function on the wipers which was an option of some sort. Washer was standard, though it does not work. I also think the comment in the manual that says they have moved the headlight high / low beam switch from the floorboard to the steering column is funny. My younger brother couldn't find the dimmer switch in my fathers '83 Dodge Ram the first time drove it 'cause it was in the floor.

I think the feature I am going to have the MOST fun wtih though, is the simple gas cap behind the license plate. Tell someone I'm giving a ride "Hey, when the pump comes on, will you put the gas in? I gotta take a leak.". I know I'll come out and find 'em wandering around the car confused.

Lastly, these cars had a wide variety of engines available, 3.8L V6, great, tough engine, but way underpowered, barely had more power than a good 4cyl did at the time, only about 90HP. Then the 350 (Chevy or Olds, whichever they felt like), the 350 diesel, and the 403. Personally? I'm fine with the 350, just need to do something about that exhaust, the muffler is too good at its job, and it looks like it was used as a football. I linked some photo's of the car below. But as I said, the GM Goodwrench engine was put in in 1993. If it had been changed in the 80's though, it would be a Target or Targetmaster crate engine.

Photo's of the car:

http://s55.photobucket.com/user/Dead...?sort=3&page=1

But, back on topic of weight, relatively speaking, my car is nimble and light for its size. Graceful as a drunk horse, nimble as a drunk bear.

Run to Rund

At 17' long, the 66 442 isn't so small either.
As to being a boat, remember the cost of restoring an old car, and that B.O.A.T. is an acronym meaning "break out another thousand" lol

navvet

I do concider my 64 88 a boat...but then again I concidered my ex wife as a boat!!!

MDchanic

Battleship, cigarette boat, or racing sloop?

- Eric

Killian_Mörder

I consider my present wife one. If she wasn't one, she'd long be gone and with someone decent . My exwife, however, stayed thin and took care of herself. No joke

navvet

OK current wife is a a racing sloop...I saw my ex a few weeks back and that is one battleship heading for the scrap yard!! ha ha