I was surprized at the quality of the cars, I should say "lack of quality" The fit and finish was terrible. Door and fender gaps, hoods not able to close, wavy panels etc etc. It is easy to be critical when looking over a car because none are perfect and I'm not that kind of guy. I prefer cars that are usable, they are much more fun to drive. My theory is that they're being restored just for the auction. The high prices makes it tempting to get a car there in any condition and see what happens. The less time worked on the car means higher profits. But there are many exceptions, I saw a Black Buick GS conv that was incredible as well as a white w31 Olds. Also I looked in the trunk of a red 1970 roadrunner and saw the rear 1/4 patch panels starting to separate from the car. I would say the panels will be causing big trouble in a year or two. Buyer beware.

I met the girl from overhaulin, What a sweetheart she took pics with us. If I was only 20 years younger and 40 pounds lighter.

 

Never been to a big auction but thats the same impression I got at two muscle car dealerships I have been to. If I am even in the position to spend a big chunk on a done car there is no way in hell I can buy one without an in person inspection. Way way too much trash work out there.

 

You know, its tempting to assume the cars at B-J are "perfect" because of the prices they command. Of course I know better, but still, I am the worst critic of my own cars, and know every flaw to the point that no one need point them out to me (they likely won't be telling me anything I don't already know). And I know too what my cars are worth (i.e. not the kind of money I see trading hands at B-J). Its natural to idealize those cars...I actually find it nice to know that imperfect as my cars are, the fact is they have nothing to be ashamed of.

Alsom having owned a pretty nice car that was later wholely misrepresented when offered for sale again, I have to question all the talk of "originanity", "matching numbers", and "documentation" you hear so much of during the auction coverage. Gotta wonder what part of that is true, and how many reproduction documents are baked in the oven or otherwise "distressed" to look likethe real deal.

 

Having been to a Barret Jackson Auction i agree with all of your statements, not to mention the 8% Barret Jackson tacks on that the buyer has to pay on top of the price of the car. I would much rather build my own from a fixable starter car. Then you know what you have reqardles of what someone thinks its worth. One mans junk is another mans treasure

 

Given what I pay for parts, and even if I pay myself nothing, I still wonder how one makes any money restoring cars. Of course, that's why the fit and finish is so poor - it's all labor cost. Same thing for Earl Schieb paint jobs.

 

There was another hemi roadrunner I looked over pretty well. The car looked rust free, but I looked under the hood and it showed signs of sitting a long time. Surface rust marks everywhere. It didn't seem to fit the condition of the car. So I looked at the VIN tag and I could see where the hexigon rivets left original imperfections in the metal and the new rivets didn't match up with the old imperfections. HMMM seems fishy.

 

There are pigs wearing lipstick at every car show and auction I've ever been to and there are naive people in this hobby that can't spot them! You have to do your homework these days because where there is money to be made, there are scammers looking for a piece of the pie.

I struggled with this when I was in the market recently. Do I get the car I want (regardless of history and ownership) and hope for the best or do I play it safe and hold out for an original car with a known history? I opted for the latter and got lucky by finding a 1 owner, 100% original car with low miles, all paperwork including maintenance receipts since new. It's not my dream car as I was looking for a 442 or at least a big block car but there is some comfort in knowing there probably aren't any surprises waiting for me. Yes, my car needs paint because it's original but at least I don't have to worry about what lies underneath the shiny new paint the last owner applied or whether the patch panels in the quarters will separate from the body

 

[quote=scott_442;59046]

I struggled with this when I was in the market recently. Do I get the car I want (regardless of history and ownership) and hope for the best or do I play it safe and hold out for an original car with a known history? I opted for the latter and got lucky by finding a 1 owner, 100% original car with low miles, all paperwork including maintenance receipts since new. It's not my dream car as I was looking for a 442 or at least a big block car but there is some comfort in knowing there probably aren't any surprises waiting for me.
Good decision,

I was at a car show a couple years ago and spotted a 69 ss396 I owned 20 years earlier. When I questioned the guy and told him what I thought he said "No way, I am 3rd owner and the guy I got from got it from the original owner" he said this while not really wanting to talk to me.
I said, what year did he buy it? because I sold it in 1989. He said HMM, that was the year. I then asked, did you ever look and see how the factory tach is wired up? because I used wire nuts. The guys face got blank and he said yes, there are wire nuts used for the connections. Then he learned the sad truth about his car. I paid $900 for it and was the umpteenth owner. After learning this he sold the car immediately.
Dave

 

Yup. As potential profits go up, so do the chances that someone is trying to make a fast buck.

On a marginally related note about the underhood rust, why is it that people spend megadollars on a restoration then use an unpainted master cylinder, which immediately rusts. Geeze, people, at least buy a can of "Cast Blast" paint.

 

I have gone and partipated in the Mecum Auctions before and while most of the cars were very well restored,some of them had a "Buyers Beware" look on them. If you looked at some of the cars up closely you saw that they were poorly repaired with wavy panels or you could see rust beginning to show on some of the panels. One need to be very careful when buying some of the cars not only from Auctions but from individuals as well. I have done all of the work so far on my car and therefore I know what I have.

 

What finish came on a 70 master ...

Don't the judges require naked metal where the factory left it bare ...

 

All of this being discussed is part of the reason why high values on our Oldsmobiles (and classic cars in general) is *not* a good thing.
Sure, at first it is flattering to see that "hey my car is worth a lot of money". But look what happens to the market, and worse yet the cars when big $$ are involved. People who are in in just for the money get into the mix. And even quite a few that are already "in the hobby" turn to profiteering.
There was a time before the values were high that most cars sold from one enthusiast to another. Now most cars are bought and sold by someone looking to turn a profit.
Used to be that if one was looking for parts, they'd be referred to someone that has them, and a deal was struck. Now there are too many out there that will "get you the parts" after they buy and then sell to you to make a buck on the transaction. I'll bet most parts are bought at swap meets now to be resold, not by someone who will actually use them. All this keeps prices higher than they would be otherwise.
And deceptive to downright fraudulent cars follow.
And we still think these high values are a good thing?

 

I am afraid your right. But as the supply dwindles the demand goes up and this is uncontrollable. I also believe that Barret Jackson didn't do this hobby any good. E-bay did some damage to as well as helped. Everyone knows the ebay value of their parts and use it as a reference and parts are more expensive in most cases. The advantage is being able to get the hard to find parts you need and not dealing with some dirtball or oddball personally. The hoarders took a beating to with all the repop stuff out there. I guess I prefer things better now with the ability to get parts and panels. I remember the days of cutting 1/4's off a 69 442 in a junk yard to replace my 68's. I have bought and sold my share of parts to help finance this addiction, most of the guys I hang around with try to do the same thing. I think as this resession grows the prices will continue to fall.

 

So, like the real estate market, is it a buyer's market for classic cars? I'm thinking now is a good time to upgrade but it's hard to gauge really. Do we throw out the classic car price guides and let the market dictate prices? Personally, I haven't seen a general price decline in market value for any particular segment of the old car hobby even discounting the speculators that play at Barrett-Jackson. Assuming that I would have to sell what I've got to acquire another if I do find that elusive deal, I can probably expect that I would have to sell low so I'm losing on one end what I'm gaining on the other. It's just a very confusing time in this hobby and in general...I liked it better when I didn't have to think about every dollar I spend.

 

I guess I was under the opinion that either cast-iron paint or flat clear would be acceptable. I'm not sure how flash rust is the right finish...

 

I believe that is a good assessment. I think ideally, our cars should have just enough value and demand to justify (and support) reproduction parts. Case in point(I think): Early Mustangs. Tons of reproduction parts, and last I knew, the values still weren't that high.

 

I find that most of the auction sites CAN give you a real value when you really don't know what something is worth. I am planning on taking my 78 Toro to one of the auctions to sell because I really don't know whats a real fair price, and I have nothing to use for reference. How many 31 year old cars do you find with 13 original miles? I have had offers for the car but I don't know what is really fair, and as it was said, this is how I pay for my expensive hobby and keep my wife off my back!

 

That Toro sounds like a perfect car for an auction. I hope it works out erll for you.

Scott 442,
I thought I saw a decline in values in the last few months but it may be a seasonal thing, who knows forsure. I think that there is a better chance now of finding a person that needs to sell a car fast because of financial problems but i never seem to find those guys.

 

i use old car price guide.....id say decline is somewhere bewteewn 30-40%..olds are tricky however as olds does not have the following of either mustang or camaro...whats funny is olds is far stronger in key areas then many many other muscle cars yet they just do not get the respect....it all comes down to jobs..around here..st louis...jobs are evaporating every day...glad i work at the local strip joint I (not really as mrs snoots would not approve)

 

I was watching Barret Jackson last week and saw a Corvette without an oil filter. The camera that got the video of the bottom of the car made it easy to see that there was no oil filter on the car. Apparently they pushed the car onto, and off of the auction block. TRAILER QUEEN. I don't know why anyone would want to buy a piece of furniture...

 

You should get top buck at an auction if the car is 100%

 

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post59580

I'd like to see what the judges have for ref ...

 

Personally, I enjoy cars that reflect how they came off the line, not overdone remakes. They were certainly not "perfect" but that is the product that came to market. One also has to remember that in this "sport of kings", a lot of these guys buying cars there dont really have any money concerns and if they decide they want the car then the sky is the limit for what they will pay for it. In a lot of cases if you watch the bidding closely, often it gets well beyond the car itself and merely a test of wills between bidders with big wallets.

 

[quote=oldsmobilia;59592]Personally, I enjoy cars that reflect how they came off the line, not overdone remakes. They were certainly not "perfect" but that is the product that came to market.

You got that right, some cars are way over restored. That unrestored look is hard to replicate without the car looking rough. Once the original paint is gone we are forced to make the car straight because new paint on a wavey car looks bad. The leaded rear 1/4 attachment areas were always crude but we don't give it a thought. I prefer driver cars myself but I guess we all have our own ideas of what we want our cars to be.
Dave

 

One thing is for sure and that is people pay too much for some of these cars. The problem lies with wealthy individuals who want to have a car collection ie. Jay Leno who will pay big bucks for rare and unique cars. Muscle car mania in the last few years has driven the price way up so that the average guy can't buy a decent late 60's early 70's muscle car. A great example would be to try to buy a Mustang Shelby 350 or 500.I looked at one last summer in Toronto ( 67- 500) and the body needed a lot of work mostly on the underside. I found 2 holes in the trunk and a lot of rust on the bottom that had been sprayed over with black paint. It looked good from 10 feet but the price tag was 129,000.I think you could have bought it for around 5,000. when it was new? As an 18 year old I had a 66 Chev Impala SS 2 door hardtop , I swapped the 283 for a 325 hp 327 small block , added headers steel pipes , glasspacks and turned out in front of rear wheels. It was a lot of fun. Now at 50 I wanted another just to drive around and tinker with so the only thing I could find was a 69 Olds 98 two door convertible. I love the car and though the motor needs a lot of cleaning up it works great. Frame is straight and solid and the floor front to trunk is like new. Bodywork and paint was done and the seats were redone as well as new convertible top so it looks good.I will post a photo soon.

 

Lets not let the seceret out about how good a deal the olds are. The chebby guys will start buying them and then we won't be able to afford our hobby anymore

 

Exactly. That's why I like that the Oldsmobiles had a low profile at BJ this year!

 

These high dollar auctions are ridiculous for a car that has been Scabbed together Part of the reason we started locating cars for real people. Build it like you want it & put the $ into it as you can afford to.We specialize in project cars & Oldsmobile's are getting harder to find at least in this part of the country .If I see one setting in a field or barn it's time to turn the truck around . Best part is Susan enjoys it too Susan & Larry