72oldscutlass442

Hi all

Looking for some thoughts and feedback in general on this matter. I'm writing more so to find out if I'm on an island by myself regarding my current experience and issues with Mart at SC&C and whether I should be more concerned/taking immediate action. I don't have too much experience on this topic. To summarize my thoughts and questions (below) for those who would prefer:

1. Has anyone had challenges getting parts from Mark at SC&C? Now at 6+ months on my original order...
2. Is the length of time for these orders a normal occurrence for anyone else? Have I been too understanding?
3. I'll continue to work on this on my end and escalate as needed, but I am worried now this may be a larger issue for myself....

Some background -
See signature for more detail, but I have a 72 Cutlass S 442. I've been a log time member and over the past decade have been very grateful for the advise and recommendations made my other users on this site. I've tried to support those who make an effort to support our car community and I have had great success interacting with both the members who sell parts and companies like Supercars Unlimited (among others). Using my common sense, I understand any and all vendors mentioned and recommended should be personally reviewed and vetted before one goes about using them. If you were to talk to those I've purchased parts from, or interacted with on some of the service work that I cannot complete myself, I know I'd be said to be fairly understanding and trusting, I try to give that much initially to those I feel have demonstrated a solid track record with others.

After a significant time saving funds and a lot of research I decided to pull the trigger on a suspension and brake overhaul. Mark at Savitske Classic and Customs was repeatedly noted as being one of the more knowledgeable guys on the matter of suspension, handling, etc for these cars. After some research on Mark, his site, and talking to him on the phone for some time, I felt confident in proceeding with a couple of purchases. There was one similar complaint on his BBB page that is nearly identical to my situation but I didn't one to take a sample size of one to decide not to work with Mark, when so many had rave reviews for him.

On August 12, 2019 I placed an order for the touring package, totaling $4,006.70. On September 6th I placed a second order for a Baer Brakes kit totaling $2,525.49. In short, neither orders are completed yet. I'm still waiting on shocks for the touring package and I have yet to receive anything on the brake kit.

To give you a bit more insight, but not get too into the weeds on this -
After the initial 3-4 weeks Mark said it would take, I followed up (hadn't heard from him at that point) via email and did not hear back. I then talked to him on the phone and was told suppliers had been backlogged but that parts would be shipping soon. I inquired as to communication and he said he'd update when he had news but doesn't usually reply to an update request email or reach out if there's nothing to report. He did say I was welcome to check in at any time if I felt it necessary. I thought that wasn't ideal but figured he's a small shop and I would respect his process, understanding communicating on orders and various inquiries could take up substantial amounts of time.

I proceeded to check in every week or so after (since I was told that parts should be arriving anytime now), but getting an answer or reply from Mark was becoming harder to get. Occasionally he'd reply to an email or call with another reason for a delay and I'd be told parts should be shipping "next week". Along the way, in mid October I received a partial order of rear suspension components of the touring package. In mid November I received the coils. As of November 20th I was told suspension parts were on the way. He also said "Checking on Baer. Educated guess based on other orders shipping, late next week. Stay tuned on that." At this point I had put this project on hold since I couldn't reliably get anything done and was still missing pieces.

I decided to give him a few weeks, then life happened (found out I was expecting a child, wife was having some serious challenges with that, work got crazy, etc) and then it was now February. Shame on me for losing track of time....I couldn't believe I had let a whole extra month go by on so much money in outstanding parts. November 20th I still hadn't received even one email or call from Mark on the remaining parts, nor did any other parts arrive. On Sunday February 9th I sent an email noting how long it had been and that I had not receive or heard from him. I was fairly concerned at this point but he replied Monday morning saying "It sounds like some signals got crossed somewhere. I`ll jump right on it and report back. Sorry for any inconvenience!". I immediately felt better that he at least responded so quickly. Since Wednesday I've called twice and sent two emails, and no reply....

It was now 6 months of waiting on these parts (8/12 to 2/14). I'm about done waiting. seriously worried I've been taken for over $3,000 in outstanding parts, and am now considering that I need to ask for a refund of the outstanding balance or take further actions to get this resolved if he doesn't deliver on parts or a refund.

70Post

Have you looked around on some of the other A-body, etc car forums to see if there's any "commentary" or postings relating to SCC?? If you're having these problems then it's very likely others are experiencing the same thing. "Word" travels fast and you might find some more info on other forums.....seems SCC was talked about in the past quite a bit on the Chevelle forum (chevelles.com). When I say "talked about" I don't mean anything negative......I mean their products seemed to be discussed frequently on that site (with Mark posting info as well) but it's been A LONG time since I've spent any time on the site.

You never know.....the explanation could be completely "innocent" (ie - his communication skills just suck), family or medical issues (I experienced this with a vendor recently - complete lack of replies to my inquiries, etc), or the place could be in "financial straits" where they're having problems paying suppliers, etc. and trying to keep the customers "on hold" while they try to juggle all the ***** in the air.

There was an outfit that did a lot of 5 speed transmission stuff...mainly for the Mopar crowd. Keisler Engineering. They were well known and also notorious for incessant delays, incomplete shipments, etc yet they stayed in business for many years I think. Ultimately, the wheels came off and the place went bankrupt. The owner was quite the salesman and I do believe the products were good but other business "factors" apparently caused their demise

You're right....definitely cause for serious concern. Sorry I can't offer anything more as I have no personal experience with them.

Hoffman2099

Same thing happened to a guy on the pontiac performance years forum. I was thinking of getting a lot of my suspension stuff from SC&C but after reading the headaches people are having I'm going to look else where.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=834488

ach1992880

I was very close to ordering a set of Varishock SS shocks from him. Thanks for the heads up, I've been in the holding pattern with a business before who fed me BS lines like "it is shipping Wednesday" or "it's on the shelf, I'm looking at it now" for 6 weeks straight. and wont put myself in the position to deal with frustration like that again. Hope for your sake it is a fluke situation that he can resolve soon.

69HO43

Does he have your money? I imagine so since you're upset at this level. His process is dead friggin' wrong. He cannot avoid answering your requests for order status because if nothing changes, it's HIS job to make it change. He's getting paid for a product or service and not performing his due diligence in completing his end of the sale process. If what you say about how he's acting, this guy's business practices SUCK. And I would never give him another dime. We all like to think that sometimes things happen. Yeah, they do. It's how the vendor FIXES the fuggup is what matters. He ain't fixing a dang thing from what I see. He sounds a lot like he's related to that *** wagon that supposedly takes 20 years to rebuild a 394 with less HP than when Olds built it.

If he has actually been paid, via credit card or any other method, he is required by the FTC to inform you (not the other way around) as of the status of the order if it goes past 30 days or if he sees it going past 30 days on a delay. If parts are backordered, he must tell you that, and expected ship date or any other pertinent info to the order itself. Ever notice when vendors wait until your order ships to charge your card? This is the reason they do that, to avoid breaking the rules.

If he fails to do that after 30 days of taking your money, you can report him to the FTC and he could be fined a buttload of money for not doing everything he can to fulfill the order as requested. If he cannot, he MUST offer you the CHOICE as whether to wait or not. If you do not agree or do not answer, he must return your money even if you didn't request it. If not, he could face some consequences (heavy fines, even possibly lawsuits, etc.)

This is all potential here. I don't know the specifics. But one thing I do know. The FTC rule is clear as to prevent ***-wagons from taking people's money then just saying crap is on back order and never sending anything while taking the client's money. Where's your interest on that 6K loan you just gave him over the last 6 months? He does that to a few people and the next thing you know, he's got money inflow without sending parts to anyone.

I don't care who it is, this is **** poor business practices and depending on the circumstances, it's illegal. I'd consider consulting a lawyer over this if the guy won't give you your money back. Go ahead and try and cancel that order. I'll bet dime to donuts he won't let you cancel because he ain't got the money to pay you back. But if he doesn't give you the choice to wait, he's fugging up.

Here's a snippet from the FTC website concerning the timeliness of shipping orders once they're paid. It says mail and telephone orders, but it has been updated to include internet orders as well. That's considered a transaction under this umbrella. Notice the second paragraph below. Sounds like most vendors who find themselves with pissed off customers after dragging their feet on fulfilling orders don't bother to read and understand this little requirement.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...net-rules-road

This is the "rule" itself. Amazing that not a whole lot of vendors are aware of this until they get roasted by it. I learned about this in on of my business courses I took in college.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...net-rules-road

Issue is, this isn't new. It's been around for a long time. For 6K, I'd be on this clown like a rat on a Cheeto.

I don't care who this guy is. He could be Elvis for all I care, he may know suspensions, but he don't know squat about customer service. Put the screws to him if he doesn't respond. It sounds like he's not holding up his end of the bargain. Get all your correspondence and receipts together and go see what your attorney says.

This is one of the things I can't stand about these so-called "gurus" that supposedly specialize in some aspect of the trade, yet will have no issue dropping the ball and looking like a dumbass when it's time to complete the sale that they offered in the first place. Treating customers like piggy banks with no intent as to satisfy the customer. They also tend to be rude to the customers because they're not equipped to handle that end of the business. Or not wanting to. A good business person would realize this and hire someone to take care of that part if all they want to do is play in the shop part of it. As a business, treating the customer like dog crap is absolutely the most stupid thing you could do, as your customer base is your life blood.

OldSoldier

I had the same trouble myself, in 2019. I ordered $2600 in parts, heard nothing for weeks, and finally I had to take action. I contacted my bank and inquired as to how old the charge can be before I lose my ability to get the money back. I did call and email Mark several times in attempts to get my parts (which he does subcontract to other vendors and sometimes they ship directly from their factories, so there are third parties involved) with usually no response. When I sent the email threatening to pull the money, it energized him to follow through and actually do the footwork in obtaining the parts. He blamed the lack of communication on being personally busy. He blamed the lack of production on the third party suppliers, but in my mind that did not remove his obligation to at least let me know that his suppliers were having production issues. Once I made my reverse-charge threat, he ended up making it right and getting me all of the parts I ordered within the next couple of weeks, and I consider it water under the bridge at this point. He has his money and I have my parts, but indeed the road we took to get there was not a smooth one. Communication was always spotty with him, but he did get more energized once I did the threats. I considered making an identical thread like this if it had went on much further but it ended up being resolved in my case. I hope yours can be resolved in the end as well. I think Mark is a very competent engineer but perhaps not so much as a businessman. Maybe he needs more help in the office. I wish you Godspeed in getting your parts!

72oldscutlass442

It completely slipped my mind to search other sites..Thanks for the link. It looks nearly identical to my issues.

72oldscutlass442

Yes, he has ALL of my money, I paid for everything up front...

72oldscutlass442

So here's the latest update- I called and emailed late again late morning on Friday ( at this point I had called and emailed 3 times since Wednesday). By 4:30pm Friday I still had no communication from him and I decided to call again and this time express a bit more forcefully I needed this resolved and that I was going to need to explore other actions on Monday to get the parts or get my money back. About an hour later I get a call from Mark. His update -He's only worked to obtain an update for the Baer brakes order. He apparently placed my order but my order was immediately put on hold by Baer since day one because it's a limited production run and they didn't have enough orders yet to make a run (slot zinc only vs slot, zinc, drill rotors). He implied an email was sent to Baer placing the order and that was the last he followed up on it, then having forgotten about the order. I asked about the MIA Varishocks but he said he hadn't looked into that yet but would Friday night or Monday morning for sure to be sure the entire order was accounted for and completed ASAP.

In the MaxPerformance post, the thread starter had gone so far as contact the suppliers directly, only to find out most everything was readily available, with none of the production delays myself and others have been told existed. This was another thought I had since I haven't seen similar delays on other supplier's sites. See below for that above mentioned post quote from the MaxPerformance thread.

""1) Called SPC today, there was no significant production setback, a small one, but orders were still going out. Definitely NOT the six week backlog Mark told me. SPC drop ships to the customer for SC&C they do not have record of my shipping info. It doesn't look like they were ordered yet.
2) Called Hellwig and sway bar # 55703 is available and Summit has it in stock I could have it in 3 days. Been over two weeks since Mark said it "shipped" still no tracking number or bar.
3) Called Chassiworks, shocks are on the shelf. Can either order through CW or SC&C.
4) Called Howe, the ball joints are special made for SC&C, I don't have a part number to give them and since they are made for Mark I can't buy them. I would likely have to use another Howe set or use the ones that come with the SPC arms.""

To his credit, Mark verbally owned everything and admitted it shouldn't be my problem. He admitted the business admin/operations side isn't his strong suite and that he's overwhelmed. He gave his apologies, and proceeded to discuss a large number of reasons as to why delays and issues have occurred (see below). These reasons appear identical to those mentioned in the MaxPerformance thread noted above as well as what OldSoldier had relayed above. I was told the following and I'm only sharing this in the event others are in a similar situation or continue to hear similar feedback (Mark seem's like a great guy and I'm not to be malicious or overshare Mark's personal details)-

• His office manager has been on medical leave for 3+ months (and that he was the organizational backbone of his operations),
• He's had staff turnover and has struggled with competent replacements (still cannot find replacements)
• He's had personal matters that had taken him away from the business a couple days a week for the past few months (multiple deaths in family and having to be an executor for the estate of an out of town relative),
• His email system's security certificates went bad causing months of emailed orders to suppliers to never reach the suppliers (he indicated it wasn't until he called to follow up on orders well after the fact that it was realized this had occurred),
• That due to the all of the above issues, many orders fell through the cracks because he didn't follow up to ensure suppliers received orders
• He switched email servers and then lost his email history when his old provider wiped his account on accident, so it's been hard to quickly determine the before mentioned mess of lost orders, and communication history.

After speaking to him, receiving your feedback, and reading the other website thread I'm of the mindset that this has been a more serious issue for most of 2019. I'll assume he's telling the truth as to the back end issues he's having but it doesn't sound to to be improving yet. I'm starting to think the 3-4 week lead time is a buffer to give Mark and his staff time to order parts and then subsequent manufacturer delays are more often a cover for his operational problems on making and following up on these orders. I'm most bothered he even took my order (and others) under these circumstances without so much as a warning. I'm leaning towards not holding much sympathy for Mark, he's running a business and I paid his business for parts. After 6 months he's had more than enough time to make it right. He seems like a good guy and I get as a business owner you don't want to needlessly scare away business, but I'm sure word getting around is going to cost him a lot more business than pulling back and getting his house in order first.

I'll give him until next week to get these orders sorted and shipped, and will take further action if I receive any update other than parts being shipped. I'll keep everyone posted.

oddball

I've bought parts from Mark a few times. Like most small shops, it can be a pain. They always lose track of anything that's special order or gets backordered and you have to go through the dance you're doing.
Specialty stuff or special configurations are good to buy from him - e.g., he does custom setups on SPC control arms. Regular catalog stuff? Eh.

He is a super nice dude and willing to talk your ear off (another sign he's not great at the business side!!). He's done a lot of the research and development for a-body suspension performance, and literally wrote the book. So it's nice to support him.

In the end, he's not a crook. Unlike some of the small olds vendors that are mostly out of business now (Terry, Zed, etc), he won't run with your money. But it will take time and energy to get everything. Calling Baer directly is also a good idea - tell them the kit and SC&C and maybe they can tell you what's going on and if there's a substitution to get it sooner. The shocks should be shelf items.... but, many things in this industry are small run. e.g., SPC runs control arms once a year. Once the batch is sold, well, everyone waits until the next batch next year.

I will say that with him, and many similar companies, it's best to call to place the order and confirm delivery timelines. e.g., I ordered a tech reference book from CK Performance and they didn't ship it until I called to bug them about it some weeks later.

Worst case I bet he'll work it out with you to refund what you haven't received so you can procure elsewhere.

dragline

Glad you posted. I'll never buy anything from SC&C. Nobody needs this much aggravation. Mark should not be "in business" if it means neglecting customers. Word of mouth travels faster than advertising in the car world.

KW5413

I don't know this guy but, I can tell you that he is using today's orders to pay for yesterdays orders. The wheels are very likely falling off his money train. Business doesn't hold your payment in escrow waiting to pay their vendors for your parts. You have already discovered that the OEMs involved have the parts readily available. Generally, these situations imply that they have no credit with the vendors and have likely exhausted their own credit card limits.

Your $$$ were gone long ago, either to fund an older order or...his personal woes. Which reads to be a contagion. Anything you receive, at this point, will be a bonus for you.

This doesn't mean he started out to be a bad guy but, he cannot sustain this business model whether by plan or conditions.

Good luck.

69HO43

Some people simply suck at money flow. He may be one of them. If you can't handle it in your personal life finances, you sure as heck won't be able to handle it in a business environment. These kind of events really steams my bean because I've been there on the short end of the stick.

I agree with KW5413's assessment. While this guy's heart may be in the right place, it's costing you in opportunity. 6 months of opportunity so far. How far along in your project would you be had you got all your parts you ordered in a reasonable amount of time? Yeah, he says he takes responsibility. Which is odd in today's vendor world, as usually they blame it on everything else but their own sucky selves, but it still comes down to results. What he says he's doing for you isn't enough, apparently. If you went in to work and your boss expected you to do whatever it is that you do for a living and at the end of the day you got nothing done, how many days do you think that would fly? I doubt if they told you "oh, that's ok, you can take as much time as you need to get your work done." If you farmed out your lawn care to the kid across the street and he decided that he'll wait until the end of the summer to cut your grass for the first time, how long would that go on until you got someone else to do it? I'd be wondering why he has to keep my parts hostage.

Sorry, the guy may be good as gold as a person, but I would expect when it comes to sending parts I paid for last year, I should have moved up to his #1 priority if he wants any more business from me. If you're not his priority at this point, this means he's more than 6 months behind on everything. If he's not, he's just taking advantage of the wheels that don't squeak. And that's a dishonest business approach, intentional or not. He will go out of business eventually. So I'd try to get resolve on this before that happens.

I'm not going to make excuses for his abysmal business practices. He's either got to be the most unlucky soul on the planet, or he's gaslighting you with convenient blow-off stories to keep you at bay. Results are what you seek, not stories. He says he's doing things for you? Why are YOU calling and contacting the people he should be calling and contacting? He's the one making a profit. From a business perspective, I don't feel sorry for him. It's his actions/decisions that put him where he is. But you're paying the price. Not cool.

I learned a long time ago that there are people you have to be wary of dealing with when it comes to handing over your hard-earned money. I learned that lesson dealing with Brothers Automotive Parts, and I'll never knowingly give them another dime. I keep hoping one day I'll read about them going out of business. There's a few other suck-wad businesses too that I don't send money to anymore as well. It's not the one-off issues that occasionally happens. It's the continuation of the same old story with some of these vendors.

Unless you put a boot on his neck (metaphorically) to keep the pressure on, at this rate, I'm expecting to see at least another 3 months of chain yanking by this guy. He'll want you to go away and stop bothering him. Squeak that wheel.

72oldscutlass442

@oddball - Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad to hear your thoughts and experiences on dealing with him and other small shops.

@69HO43 - I agree, it's certainly put a major wrench in the project and has been quite time consuming to say the least. Oddball's comments seem in line with my interactions with Mark and I'm encouraged that at some point this will come to a satisfactory resulution. I just don't want it to be a constant battle or concern any longer. Unfortunately I think your right, I need to be far squeakier and stronger in tone now to ensure action occurs at this point.

With that said, even with all the issues I've had I'd rather see his business turned around rather than him go out of business. But bad business operations and service will catch up to these small shops quickly, and like you and @KW5413 said, this all points to some serious issues at the moment. Hopefully for everyone's sake, especially the guys with $$$ already on the line, things get back on track. It's tough to find well-meaning and knowledgeable guys supporting our hobby and losing another isn't good for anyone. But these shops do need to have good service, put their customers first, and make it right if they expect positive word to spread and repeat business.

83hurstguy

I've bought a fair amount of stuff from Mark. His advice and parts he sold have always worked well for me. He took a lot of time to explain the correct installation process, how to check suspension fitment, and supplied "out of the box" ideas to make the car work the best it can. He will never rush you off the phone when you have questions, though sometimes getting through to him isn't the easiest. Most people or companies won't take the time to figure out the technical details or offer the advice that Mark will, and I've always appreciated that.

That being said, the last order I had with him for some drop shipped parts took months when it should have taken weeks (I was told 2-3 weeks when purchasing). I luckily wasn't in a rush, but I was surprised that something that was no more than a parts pass through would take so long. I do get that some of the parts are batch ran by his suppliers, then have to get re-packaged and re-shipped.

Sorry to hear about your experience, but it sounds like you're handling it the right way. I would have called the parts suppliers directly months ago like the performance years member did; if you haven't called yet, I would definitely start making them... I'm sure the suppliers don't like being blamed for shipment delays when it's not their fault (especially if the order isn't even in their house). If you got charged up front, and six months later the orders haven't been placed, I would be very frustrated.

Weezer

This situation is exactly why there are different roles in a business, and no one person should take on everything. His order tracking & fulfillment side needs attention, or he's going to be looking for a job soon himself.

KW5413

Sometimes, the job(s) are just to big for them.

dennis_30281

Sounds like this guy took lessons from Tony Lombardi at Ross Racing engines!
Dennis

72oldscutlass442

Small update - No update from Mark on Monday (said he'd check into everything first thing Monday at the latest and let me know) or today. I plan to call tomorrow in the afternoon when no update is received by then.

As the MaxPreformance member did, and was recommended by some of you, I contacted Chassisworks today. The shocks are in stock for both front and rear and are ready to ship out within 24 hours.... and they haven't had any notable stocking issues with them recently. Not encouraging for SC&C, from what I understand SC&C is the only supplier of this shock outside of them so inventory should be readily available.

I didn't have time to call Baer today but plan to in the morning.

w-30dreamin

After reading everything you have said,I don't believe a word this Mark guy says. He has given you every scammers excuse in the book.

deejai35

Sorry to hear this. I am a fan of Mark and SC&C. I have spoken to him and took his sound advice while finishing my suspension. This was a few years ago. As a small business owner, I understand how staffing and other issues can make things fall apart. I hope he is able to get it together.

72oldscutlass442

Another update - I have to say I'm quite upset right now after talking to Baer. I'll still handle this professionally....but everything points to the fact that I've been taken for a fool for having been so trusting.

I called Baer this morning. They confirmed 2-3 weeks lead time from order placement to shipment, irregardless of Rotor finish. I asked if there were batch size/production run requirements that could affect this and the rep said that's not an issue. I asked if there was any scenario where parts (that could be ordered directly from their website) could encounter a 6 month delay and was told no, not for standardized parts they routinely sell. Going back to my previous update, Mark claims a delay occurred when he placed my order but it was immediately put on hold by Baer because it's a limited production run and they didn't have enough orders yet (slot zinc only vs the more common slot, zinc, drill rotors). So Mark lied...Even if what Mark said had a hint of truth, and giving twice the lead time that Baer just confirmed, my order would still have arrived 4 months ago....

At this point, I can no longer trust what Mark is telling me. He is lying to me and blaming miscommunication/delays on suppliers, which is now clearly cover for his business operation issues. I can only imagine Mark is in a really tough spot to be behaving this way, given how highly everyone has spoken if him (pre 2019).

I also went on to his Facebook page to see if there was activity. And yes he is still posting regularly as if there's no issues...Releasing new suspension packages and even offering free shipping in February on one of his "new" Chevy kits. . Clearly he's got no issue with taking new orders.

Thanks again to 69HO43 for the FTC information. Problem is, it appears I'm at his mercy save hiring an attorney. The FTC complaint process doesn't appear to have much teeth to encourage a business to take action. I could file complaints to the AG offfices in Ohio and PA but it doesn't look like that's going to due much good unless they see enough multiple people harmed for them to get involved. I went to his BBB page he's no longer BBB accredited and has a (D+) rating now for not having replied to a similar complaint in early 2019. So it doesn't look like the BBB will help much.

I've called the shop twice now since this morning's findings and my calls have been directed to voicemail. I'd like to get him on the phone, discuss my supplier findings, and promptly ask for an immediate refund. I guess when I talk to him I'll warn of posting on his Facebook page and places like google. I'm thinking I'll also warn of calling Chassisworks/Varishock, Baer, and SPC, to complain too. I don't expect they'll appreciate hearing he's been pointing fingers, even if he is long time friends with some of guys at these companies (as Mark says). If that doesn't work, I'll hire an attorney. We'll see if I hear from him or see a refund.

Olds64

Don't call the guy, drive down to his shop and speak to him in person. The only thing you should say to him now is:

1) I'm going to sue you, here's my lawyer's contact info.
2) Here is the BBB complaint, Google review, FTC complaint, etc. I will immediately post unless you give me a refund (make sure you have printed copies of all the complaints you plan on filing).

Sorry you've had such bad luck with this joker. From what you've said you have been more than patient with the guy. Time to bring your business with him to a close.

Good luck!

KW5413

My only thoughts about announcing your intentions, if the supplier does not provide immediate remedy, once you do announce them...the guy will clam up completely, as their attorney would likely advise, as well. When he hears the word "SUE", the conversation is over. Just be prepared for that.

Just for the record...He's been pretty damned good at putting you off. I can't imagine that this is his first rodeo.

Good luck.

72oldscutlass442

Update - Interestingly after I leave a voicemail asking for a refund (and the Baer rep likely speaking to him) I now receive an email reply to an update request I sent him Tuesday. I guess he's chosen to ignore the voicemail about the refund I requested or hasn't listened to it yet... Either way, it seems shortly after I get more forceful and say I need an answer (like last Friday) or ask for a refund (as I did today) I suddenly get an update that he's "just talked to the supplier". Last week's update that he just talked to Baer occurred 5 days after he said he'd check with them immediately. This update occurred 3 business after he said he would immediately check on the shocks and the rest of my order. Both times he's done nothing until he feels he has to respond.

I already replied back telling him I'll give him until Friday for the tracking on Chassiworks and a direct update from Rick at Baer or otherwise I expect the refund I requested.

@KW5413 @Olds64 Yes, he appears to have experience implementing the delay tactics. Good points on the warnings though, I'll just plan to ask for the refund AGAIN (when more of the same happens) on Friday afternoon. Then I'll drop the complaints and legal action on him and plan no further communication or action from him.

His email today -
" Your shocks shipped 1/31. UPS Tracking Number:​ 1ZE95A990391701176 The shipment was then voided by UPS for some reason (typo in the address or something, who knows?). Chassiworks should have reshipped them immediately but apparently they didn`t notice they were voided. I just got off the phone with them, they`re shipping immediately. I`ll send tracking.
We spoke about the brakes, the issue was the rear rotors which we originally ordered custom slot/zinc (note that`s not an option for that kit, SDZ, slot-no zinc or plain are the only options). I can get custom things like that done but if they don`t have the raw parts to do them it can have really long lead times as we`ve seen. After we talked last we switched them to slot/drill/zinc so they could turn they could get them out faster. They`re in process now as std. SDZ, Rick E. is checking on the ship date now. I changed the order a week or two ago after we spoke so I`m betting on this week or next.
I know it`s probably hard to believe considering your experience with us but we actually do ship many hundreds of orders every year that are delivered quickly and efficiently. We`re very sorry for the confusion and inconvenience!
--
Thanks, Mark Savitske
Savitske Classic & Custom
610-381-6100
"

69HO43

He's doing everything to string you along. Send him another email or call him. They should send out an immediate tracking number fix if it was just a slight error. It was whoever was shipping the shocks went in and cancelled the order for whatever reason. I stil wouldn't let him off the hook, as if it comes Friday and you haven't seen evidence of things being shipped, you will take it to the next level.

I'd be all up in his azz of when you paid him for this stuff LAST YEAR why is he just now getting it ordered? Because he has another fool on the hook sending him money now to order the stuff for you. That pyramid scheme is going to catch up with him. Acting all like nothing is going on, I'd start leaving some FB messages about when you going to get your stuff. Make waves in his scheme to rip off others, and save someone some headache in the meantime.

He's a scam artist. Because he would shut down his operation and work out the kinks if he actually cared about his customers. Guys like this SHOULD go out of business. He's a whole lot shadier than a one-time mess up or innocent mistake. Too bad his expertise is being wasted on his unsustainable and unscrupulous business methods.

If after Friday and he hasn't moved yet, have your lawyer do his thing. I would.

KW5413

I think you will find that he isn't as big as he would like people to think he is. Which isn't uncommon BTW. I don't put a lot of trust in on-line business info sites like Manta as their information could be very dated but, they show he could be a 1-3 person operation. He does look have a store front location.

Based on what some have stated here and other things I have read about him, he seems to an expert on these old car suspensions. Unfortunately, conditions have made him an expert on story telling, as well.

This is all a guess on my part but I have seen it before. Expert has a passion for classic car suspensions. made some $$$ as a side gig and enjoys helping people with his knowledge. Decided to offer turn-key designs, parts etc. and was certain he could make a good living and have fun at the same time.

Unfortunately, life doesn't read your business plan and, as such, life happens and trumps the best of plans. If he was being truthful, an "event" took place that removed him from the day to day operation. Since he is the major player in the business...not much gets done. In addition, he may very well be the victim of his own success (explosive growth as opposed to manageable expansion) and could not attend to it all, especially if outside influences were affecting his participation. Or, the business wasn't producing the revenue he needs to support "Life" and the business reverts back to a side gig.

So, I don't know the guy and he may generally be a good guy that is now getting lost in his own BS. If he is "borrowing from Peter top pay Paul", it is typically a stepping stone to an unfortunate end.

The fact is...perception becomes truth. And the truth seems to be that he has been jacking around the OP.
.

KW5413

Here is the UPS link to the tracking # as posted. It does show that (2) packages were scheduled to ship to Dublin, OH but, were cancelled. Cancelled after the label was printed. Which means the packages very likely were never picked up since it says the information was voided.

If the OP is in Dublin, OH then these packages may not have been for him and the shipment cancelled and relabeled to the correct customer. If the OP is not in Dublin Then "Mark" may just have thrown this cancelled tracking number out there to further the story line. We ship UPS / FedEx daily. You know pretty quick if the address is bad. So, why wouldn't they have just printed a new label with correct information?

Or, MAYBE, the order cancelled due to credit issues and the accounting dept, of the company drop shipping the product, put a credit hold on it. Not saying they did. Just a consideration.

There is just to much BAD going on here.
.

https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US&...T/trackdetails

72oldscutlass442

I am in Dublin, a suburb of Columbus, OH. I think you’re on to something because when I talked to Chassiworks earlier they indicated orders went out within 24 hours. If that’s true I can only guess why my order was placed with Chassiworks nearly 4 months after I made it with Mark. It would seem odd that someone at Chassiworks would somehow not realize they have a package sitting out ready for delivery/pickup and not do anything about it for over 2 weeks.

On a side note, some promising news - the rep at Baer called me back this evening before leaving the office for the day. He called just to say that he did get the order information from Mark but hadn’t revive a solid shipping date from his team due to it being a relatively recent order. He said as soon as they had a better idea of when it would ship he’d let me know as he promised. Finally some great customer service! I’m very appreciative that he offered to help when I technically didn’t place the order directly.

Hopefully this means I can report back soon with news that everything has or will be shipping out and I can finally move on to getting these parts installed and enjoy the car. I appreciate all the support so far, it’s been somewhat calming to share this and receive feedback and thoughts from you all. Thanks again everyone.

70W-32

Im not sure how you paid for this order, but ifyou used a credit card(not debit), contact the CC company for help in getting your money back.

For anybody building a car(or any other project), get yourself a credit card to make your purchases, this way you have some recourse if you run into issues like this.

mrolds69

I do not know this business, but I feel your pain. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. It's true you can make shipping labels with empty boxes, and fake weights, and get a tracking number. I've been through problems like this with Billions + Trillions of excuses from "Frank the moron". I went through something like this with QuadrajetPower.com, where I bought a carb, when it arrived it was bad, then when I called "Mark the moron" owner wouldn't return my call. Hopefully, you will get your $ back. You are doing people a huge service by letting people know of your experience here. The best you can do after that, is continue to tell people what happened. AFTER my problems with Mark at Quadrajet Power, like 10 people PM'd me commending me and telling me they had similar unresolved issues. GREAT, why didn't any of you 10 guys call him out before? I'm 67 years old, I'm too old to pussyfoot around now. I call them like I see them, I don't mince words. I have an expression..."When you suck, you suck". If you take somebody's $, and then tell stories, or give excuses...I mean these guys are like Nigerian kings who promise you the world until they get your $. Ughhh........

Olds64

Definitely a story teller and lying thief.

x2

Plus, most credit cards offer cash back incentives at the end of the year. It's a minuscule %, but it's a bonus to using credit cards.

72oldscutlass442

PSA - DO NOT PLACE ANY ORDERS WITH SC&C AND IF YOU HAVE OUTSTANDING ORDERS CONTACT YOUR CREDIT CARD COMPANY IMMEDIATELY. It would appear that SC&C is out of money and cannot fulfill financial obligations. I don't know if he's telling people he's essentially out of business right now or if he's accepting new orders...

Update - From bad to worse....The final missing order is now the Baer Brake kits. I was told by Mark at SC&C that the order was being processed and that it would be 4 weeks until shipping. So four weeks came around and I followed up last week with Mark (Baer said they couldn't source the exact order because it was through SC&C). Mark took a whole week to reply and when he did he had "good news and bad news" for me. This was Tuesday evening, 3/31.

This appears to be what had occurred...Mark goes on to tell me "the good news is that your brakes are finished and ready to ship but the bad news is that you will have to contact Baer directly to finish the order and get them shipped." Mark goes on to say that due to Coronavirus SC&C is currently closed and he's working from home but as he talks it's clear the shop closure is not due to the Coronavirus exactly. He continues to share that while he anticipated a slow down in orders (which did occur) over the past few weeks what he didn't anticipate was the large number of refund requests. And now he's out of money....and cannot pay Baer for the brake order, even though I paid him in full for the order back in September 2019, 7 months ago. Mark continues to say "hey it's not a problem for you though, just contact your credit card company and request a charge back. I will not dispute the order and they'll give you your money back." He also relayed that he'd email both me and Baer to confirm the situation in writing by Wednesday morning. Now I already know that's easier said than done and immediately called Capital One. I did confirm that charge disputes can take up to 90 days from the time the credit card sends notice to the merchant. They did say that if the merchant replies quickly and doesn't contest the dispute that they'll then credit back the account no later than 30 days, but often with a week. With Mark's lack of communication I'm doubtful he'll reply quickly to Capital One.

On Wednesday Baer and I had yet to see written communication from Mark, but they did have communication verbally with Mark and were aware. So to get the parts released I did pay Baer directly. While I've now dropped $5,000 for $2,500 in parts the bright spot is that Baer has provided the best customer service they could despite none of this being their fault. They honored the price Mark quoted me and even provided free shipping due to the fact they were aware this was an order I had originally placed with Mark 7 months ago and was now dealing with the latest payment fiasco.

The brakes are now on my the way and my car is in the shop to be put together. I have everything for reassembling the car. save the Legendary seat covers, which were due to be assembled last week (right as Legendary closed down) so the bucket/console swap is on hold indefinitely until Legendary reopens. Hopefully they're in better shape financially....

69HO43

Sounds like he's setting himself up for a bankruptcy because when he says do a chargeback, he's got to now pay the credit card company back. Which I doubt he'll do. I'd do whatever chargeback option you could on any and all credit cards spent with this guy before he goes under, and under is where he's headed. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I'm sure he thought he was a business genius when he started this pyramid scheme, but what he probably soon realized is once the peter paying paul routine got out of hand, it would be extremely hard to get back out in front of it.

Hopefully he'll survive this, but also hope he'll take some online courses on how to run a business in the black and not force the customers to take it in the poop chute. Bad business practice events travel like wildfire. And I don't have mercy on someone taking my money and not providing the promised service without checking with me FIRST. Even Job would have run out of patience with this guy.

83hurstguy

Wow, I'm sorry to hear this. Thanks for sharing your experience, it sucks you had to go through it. My opinion of SC&C has definitely flipped after seeing this.

72oldscutlass442

Thanks Luke. I originally selected SC&C because of all of the great experiences shared by guys on this site as well as those on others. Mark was well regarded it seemed and several people had done quite a large amount of business with him over the years.

I started this thread was because my experiences didn't seem to match up and I figured it was just me not thinking right. However, it sounds like several other of SC&C's more recent customers have experienced similar issues. I appear to have gotten the worst of it. At this point I just wanted to keep people in the loop on how it turned out. And it had never occurred to me that Baer wouldn't have received payment from SC&C when the order was placed (again), otherwise I would have been all over this long before now and been a lot more aggressive about the refund request from earlier.

And thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread. Really helped me feel like I wasn't alone on this.

OldSoldier

This thread is indeed a customer service accouncement, and I thank you for starting it. It appears I got lucky and skated in "under the wire" with my parts from SC&C. I'm sorry that you did not, and hopefully this thread can be referenced in the future so no one else has to endure the same problems you did.

71 OLDS

Wow just read this entire thread. To give a different side to this I have been working with Mark for years and successfully purchased thousands of dollars in parts from him. It was never a fast turn around and I always stay on top of my orders and drive vendors crazy by calling them weekly or even daily for updates, but this is the first negative thing I've heard about Mark or SC&C. I actually was just on the phone with him last week talking about my latest plans. He did tell me he was working from home and believe it's legit that he, like many vendors out there, are not taking new orders right now. However all that said this does sound really bad. Hopefully it will all get worked out and you will either get your parts or get a refund. I have never met anyone who knows and understands 68-72 GM A bodies suspensions like Mark. Every single upgrade I made on my car that he suggested made huge improvements. He always takes time to give advice even on products he doesn't sell. In all the years I've worked with him he never said or did one thing that made me feel like he was a scammer.

-Joe

Koda

No matter how awesome someone else, you never pay up front for anything.

oldcutlass

I don't know how that would work out, there is no such thing as COD on parts that are ordered.